Global Warming Debate Goes Cold Like The Climate

[Guest Sundancefisher]

This global warming cult has been oh oh so quiet lately. They don't open their beaks when it is cold but forget it as soon as a warm day comes upon us.

 

A simple warm week breeds fear and worry that the world is ending and yet one of the coldest winters on record goes completely ignored. Cold periods don't affect global warming trends I guess. Or maybe the cooling of the Earth is proof the Earth is warming. Hmmm...maybe the climate models will explain that away. Actually I want to plan a fishing trip in 2 months...what exactly will happen that day? week? month?

 

Calgary Sun article on warming... http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/200...584971-sun.html

 

Wikipedia...

 

"Historical cold waves

 

[edit] Modern cold waves (2001-date)

 

* 2009 European cold wave - Early January gave most of Europe, especially in central and south very cold temperatures. Some places like Germany, France, Italy, Romania and Spain had record cold temperatures well below 0°C. Most of the places were covered in snow and ice which caused school closings and airport delays. Large cities like Paris, Madrid, Berlin and even Marseille saw very cold temperatures with lots of snow and ice in Northern Italy, most of Germany, in northern Portugal and even along the coasts of the Mediterranean. In early February another cold front brought heavy snowfall to much of Western Europe with the heaviest snow falling in France, Northern Italy, the Low Countries and the United Kingdom, where parts of Southern England had seen the worst snowfall in over 18 years causing widespread travel disruption particularly around London.

 

* 2008 North American Cold Wave - In December, Canada and large parts of the United States experienced very heavy snowfall and plummeting temperatures. Snowfall was seen in unusual areas along the Great Plains and even in the deserts in and around Las Vegas.

 

* 2008 Alaska - In early February Alaska experienced some of the coldest temperatures for 8 years, with Fairbanks nearing (-50 °F (-46 °C) and Chicken, Alaska bottoming out at -72 °F (-58 °C), a mere 8 degrees away from the record of -80 °F (-62 °C). The first half of January also brought unusual cold weather and heavy snow to widespread regions of China and the Middle East.

 

* 2007 Argentine cold wave - An interaction with an area of low pressure systems across Argentina during the July 6, July 7 and 8 of 2007, and the entry of a massive polar cold snap resulted in severe snowfalls and blizzards. The cold snap advanced from the south towards the central zone of the country, continuing its displacement towards the north during Saturday, July 7. On Monday July 9, the simultaneous presence of very cold air, gave place to the occurrence of snowfalls. This phenomenon left at least 23 people dead.[3][4]

 

* 2007 Northern Hemisphere cold wave - All of Canada and most of the United States underwent a freeze after a two-week warming that took place in late March & early April. Crops froze, wind picked up, and snow drizzled much of the United States. Some parts of Europe also experienced unusual cold winter-like temperatures, during that time.

 

* 2005-2006 European cold wave - Eastern Europe and Russia saw a very cold winter. Some of them saw their coldest on record or since the 1970s. Snow was an abundance in unusual places, such as in southern Spain and Northern Africa. All the winter months that season saw temperatures well below average across the continent.

 

* 2004-2005 Southern Europe cold wave - All areas of Southern Europe saw an unusually hard winter. This area saw an ice storm which have a 1 in 1000 chance of happening.[citation needed] This cold front caused snow in Algeria, which is extremely unusual. The south of Spain and Morroco also recorded freezing temperatures, and record freezing temperatures were observed on the north of Portugal and Spain.

 

* 2004 January cold outbreak, Northeast United States - New England was near a record month when frequent Arctic fronts caused unusually cold weather. Boston was one of their coldest in 114 years. Virginia Beach had an unusually long period of below freezing weather. One area of New York saw 150 inches of snow in a month. Many parts of the western and midwestern area of the country seen the effect as well.

 

[edit] 20th century cold waves (pre-2001)

 

* 1997 Northern Plains cold air Outbreak - Mid January across the Northern U.S. was one of the windiest on record. With a low of around -40 °F in some places, wind caused bitterly cold wind chills sometimes nearing -80 °F. Northern parts of North Dakota saw up to 90 inches of snow. This was one of the most severe cold air outbreaks of the 1990s.

 

* 1996 Great Midwest cold outbreak - Late January and early February was Northern Minnesota's coldest short term period on record. The record low of -60 °F was recorded in Tower, Minnesota.

 

* 1994 Northern US/Southern Canada cold outbreak - January 1994 was the coldest month recorded over many parts of the northeast and north-central United States, as well as Southern Canada, or coldest since the late 1970s in some locations. Many overnight record lows were set. Cold outbreaks continued into February but the severity eased somewhat. The cold also extended further south than usual into Texas bringing snowfall and temperatures lower than -20 °F to parts of the state, Florida also experienced cold and snowfall, even once flurries were reported north of Miami and damage to the citrus crop in central Florida was extensive. Detroit, Michigan saw their coldest temperature since 1985.

 

* 1989 record cold start to December - In 1989, the central and eastern USA saw one of the coldest Decembers on record. A white Christmas occurred.

 

* 1985 Great Western cold air outbreak - February 1985 saw the USA's third coldest temperature of -69 °F in Peter's Sink, Utah. About a month of severe cold affect a large part of the nation. 1985 became the fourth coldest year on record in the western USA.

 

* January 1985 US cold air outbreak - On January 21, 1985, it was cold that President Ronald Reagan's inauguration took place in the Capitol Rotunda. In addition to the cold in Washington, DC, frost was reported in Miami and many Southern cities set all-time record cold or at least came close.

 

* 1983 Record cold December USA - USA had its coldest ever Christmas in 1983. Severely cold winds blew in from Canada and about 70% of the month was colder than average. The 1980s saw the USA's coldest Decembers on record.

 

* 1982 cold air outbreak - January 1982 was very cold. The 1981 AFC Championship Game, held in Cincinnati was nicknamed the "Freezer Bowl" due to the -9 °F temperature and -59 °F wind chill. The following week's events was also known as Cold Sunday

 

* 1970s - In the late 1970s most or all places in the Lower 48 had at least one winter with a memorable cold wave, and the 1977-78 cold wave was the coldest winter on record in the lower 48, with every state seeing well below average temperatures.

 

* 1936 Cold wave - The cold wave of 1936 was the only cold wave of the 1930s impacting North America and the Midwest United States.

 

* 1910s - The severe cold outbreak of 1912 caused the longest recorded period of below zero weather. The winter from 1916–1917 until 1917–1918 was very frigid across the USA."

 

http://www.newsmax.com/brennan/global_warm...3/04/77689.html

 

Great to see now that people are paying attention to the weather and seeing that temperatures go up and down. That there is a cycle at work and not a steady increase till the world explodes.

 

Global Warming Theory fanatics are giving way to Global Temperature Fluctuation Theory normal people.

 

Cheers and stay warm

 

Sun

 

 

 

[Weedy1]

Happy Earth Hour Sun.

[SanJuanWorm]

What a fun topic to bring up just before a snow fall. Let the shack nasties begin. hehe.

[AndyW]

This is why the industry leaders of the failing business model "Global Warming" are currently re-branding it "Climate Change".

 

Way easier to cash in on a concept that does not rely on the mercury to only go up- Short selling Global warming.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I yearn for global warming now

 

 

[Tungsten]

Stupid snow.Hey Old Man Winter!

[Taco]

[johnbransfield]

regardless of whether global warming is fact or fiction I think we could all do with less automobiles on the road creating smog.....

[Simpson]

As well as garbage in our land fills....pollution in our rivers and streams...

 

I have not read the studies on global warming and therefore will not comment, but to think that human behaviour and decisions are not a having a major negative impact on the health of this planet is naive.

 

Just my opinion...only time will tell.

[Pipestoneflyguy]

Ha ha - Earth hour - isn't that kinda like wearing a condom with only 1 out of every 24 hookers

[AndyW]

You can still be a good steward of the earth without drinking the global warming- ehem, sorry "climate change" suzuki kool-aid you know.

[johnbransfield]

You can still be a good steward of the earth without drinking the global warming- ehem, sorry "climate change" suzuki kool-aid you know.

 

 

Amen

[Guest Sundancefisher]

This whole notion of Earth Hour to promote climate change is silly. I can understand promoting it for the purposes of stressing conservation but climate change...please. Calgary's forcast for the next week is below normal.

 

By their own admission...eventually as the ice age continues...Earth hour will consist on requiring everyone to use up extra fossil fuels to promote warming and melting the Red Deer Glacier before it reaches Regina.

 

Once global warming fanatics realized their plan was in jeopardy as predictions were not coming true and researchers were having to stretch the truth and make false connections to promote it...it went from global warming to climate change.

 

Way to funny.

[soot59]

regardless of whether global warming is fact or fiction I think we could all do with less automobiles on the road creating smog.....

If we all kill ourselves would that help?

[johnbransfield]

It would help the earth for sure! Ahaha we wouldn't be able to enjoy fly fishing anymore though!!

[Keith]

You can still be a good steward of the earth without drinking the global warming- ehem, sorry "climate change" suzuki kool-aid you know.

 

 

That's for sure. Sadly, I think the climate change movement could set back the movement for better stewardship of the earth for a long time. The enviros have been crying a whole lot of wolf on this issue, and if it turns out that their predictions don't come true then I think their credibility will have been spent. Even in the current time, Climate change has become the poster child for the enviros and it is hogging all of the attention from a whole range of issues that we should be getting on top of. The depletion of ocean stocks and the continued harvesting of the worlds few remaining wild spaces are not getting as much attention as they should be because Climate Change is the big bad wolf everyone is fighting.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

That's for sure. Sadly, I think the climate change movement could set back the movement for better stewardship of the earth for a long time. The enviros have been crying a whole lot of wolf on this issue, and if it turns out that their predictions don't come true then I think their credibility will have been spent. Even in the current time, Climate change has become the poster child for the enviros and it is hogging all of the attention from a whole range of issues that we should be getting on top of. The depletion of ocean stocks and the continued harvesting of the worlds few remaining wild spaces are not getting as much attention as they should be because Climate Change is the big bad wolf everyone is fighting.

 

The entire global warming problem will go away if all alcoholic beverages and carbonated beverages sequestered all CO2 instead of making drinks fizzy.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

droughts are blamed constantly on global warming. Finally a scientist is being allowed to print the truth. Droughts have been happening for longer than people have been around. The worst droughts ever have happened before recorded history. Others should come again. Signs of cllimate fluctuation and not CO2 induced global warming. West Africa has been studied for droughts. One lake in particular shows the area has a lot more moisture now than in the drought years.

 

What does this show and prove once again. CO2 induced global warming is a crock and while climate fluctuations occur...peoples ability to predict and control it is limited to days and not hundreds of years.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8003060.stm

 

Cheers and stay warm in the snow next week!

[alhuger]

droughts are blamed constantly on global warming. Finally a scientist is being allowed to print the truth. Droughts have been happening for longer than people have been around. The worst droughts ever have happened before recorded history. Others should come again. Signs of cllimate fluctuation and not CO2 induced global warming. West Africa has been studied for droughts. One lake in particular shows the area has a lot more moisture now than in the drought years.

 

What does this show and prove once again. CO2 induced global warming is a crock and while climate fluctuations occur...peoples ability to predict and control it is limited to days and not hundreds of years.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8003060.stm

 

Cheers and stay warm in the snow next week!

 

 

Uhh, the article states pretty clearly that while mega-droughts are not either understood nor unheard of that the next will be exacerbated, to whit: "researchers suggest man-made climate change may make the situation worse". Further they state quite clearly:

 

"What it's pointing to is the need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions; but you can't do it all with mitigation, just as you can't do it all with adaptation."

 

That would be C02......... How did you come to your conclusions?

 

al

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Uhh, the article states pretty clearly that while mega-droughts are not either understood nor unheard of that the next will be exacerbated, to whit: "researchers suggest man-made climate change may make the situation worse". Further they state quite clearly:

 

"What it's pointing to is the need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions; but you can't do it all with mitigation, just as you can't do it all with adaptation."

 

That would be C02......... How did you come to your conclusions?

 

al

 

Simple.

 

Scientists are now feeling under pressure to have the truth in their reports (many do have ethics) and at the same time to survive as a profession they need to try and pay lip service to the global warming payment offices that this study and my future research deserves compensation.

 

If you read it from a scientific perspective, how else can he say in one breath that the worst drought in all of history...this mega-drought he refers to...which is magnitudes worse than anything man has seen before man was even recording history and at a time of false concern today... can really be linked to this "chicken little" syndrome of ....please... are we really threatened by this mysteriously computer modeled dooms day Earth is going to boil theory ...when this same area has a lake with higher than historical water levels and an old tree sticking out of the water to prove it...

 

What he has in fact proved...is that there is climate fluctuations at work. Where there was once a drought...even with man's mean nasty influence...there is now a nice lake... Where it was once warmer...even with man's influence...it is much cooler... And we are not even discussing where the glaciers were back then.

 

Like all scientists...he needs to feed his family. Without linking to global warming...I am sure he would not have been paid. If by chance they did pay him...he would not have been on their funding list for the second round.

 

This is the simple truth...

[alhuger]

Simple.

 

Scientists are now feeling under pressure to have the truth in their reports (many do have ethics) and at the same time to survive as a profession they need to try and pay lip service to the global warming payment offices that this study and my future research deserves compensation.

 

If you read it from a scientific perspective, how else can he say in one breath that the worst drought in all of history...this mega-drought he refers to...which is magnitudes worse than anything man has seen before man was even recording history and at a time of false concern today... can really be linked to this "chicken little" syndrome of ....please... are we really threatened by this mysteriously computer modeled dooms day Earth is going to boil theory ...when this same area has a lake with higher than historical water levels and an old tree sticking out of the water to prove it...

 

What he has in fact proved...is that there is climate fluctuations at work. Where there was once a drought...even with man's mean nasty influence...there is now a nice lake... Where it was once warmer...even with man's influence...it is much cooler... And we are not even discussing where the glaciers were back then.

 

Like all scientists...he needs to feed his family. Without linking to global warming...I am sure he would not have been paid. If by chance they did pay him...he would not have been on their funding list for the second round.

 

This is the simple truth...

 

 

I will abide by the 'simple' bit certainly but I am not so sure about the 'truth' bit. The lead researcher and the one who got quoted is a clear believer in greenhouse gas emissions being a contributor to man made climate change. He is rather unequivocal about it and his research has been used in studies over the last 25 years which strongly support man made climate change with carbon gas emissions playing a significant role. I suspect he published their research from, as you say, a 'scientific perspective' and their results don't even slightly resemble what your putting forth. You are free to read between the lines if you like but the paper itself is crystal clear on it's findings and they support man made climate change, although it was not the main thrust of their research. As for getting paid, the PhD in question is tenured at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and has got 30 years of study and credibility under his belt, smearing him by asserting he would doctor his results to obtain funding is groundless if not totally ridiculous. Disagreeing with 'global warming' comes off more convincingly if you leave the conspiracy theories at home and stick to debating the data.

 

al

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I will abide by the 'simple' bit certainly but I am not so sure about the 'truth' bit. The lead researcher and the one who got quoted is a clear believer in greenhouse gas emissions being a contributor to man made climate change. He is rather unequivocal about it and his research has been used in studies over the last 25 years which strongly support man made climate change with carbon gas emissions playing a significant role. I suspect he published their research from, as you say, a 'scientific perspective' and their results don't even slightly resemble what your putting forth. You are free to read between the lines if you like but the paper itself is crystal clear on it's findings and they support man made climate change, although it was not the main thrust of their research. As for getting paid, the PhD in question is tenured at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and has got 30 years of study and credibility under his belt, smearing him by asserting he would doctor his results to obtain funding is groundless if not totally ridiculous. Disagreeing with 'global warming' comes off more convincingly if you leave the conspiracy theories at home and stick to debating the data.

 

al

 

What findings can possibly be derived from that? Climate has changed over 300 years...yes he proved that... Yes...climate was much WARMER than it is now... Yes he proved that. Yes it may go back to being warmer again... That is speculation but given global historical climate fluctuations over MILLIONS of years...only a fool would say the Earth could not get warm...or colder for that matter but when and why is almost certainly controlled by what processes over the past billion years contributed to that.

 

As for CO2 causing the Earth to go back to what it once was...is pure speculation and purely designed to get more grant money. As for addressing his theory specifically that if the Earth warms...droughts get worse... There are other studies that says as the Earth warms, the air holds more moisture and their is more rainfall.

 

A million year and we will know for sure. A few more years of colder temperatures and we will end this debate and start the ice age debate.

 

In truth it is very frustrating to talk specifics with the global warming religious zealots. I have shown the huge list of credible scientists the IPCC said endorsed the theory and in turn they flatly denied and said they just commented on paragraphs, chapters etc. I have talked in the past about credible geological historical data that refutes the global warming theory. I have gone at length discussing computer models and how they can not predict 3 days let along 3 week, 3 months, 3 years or 100 years out. I have discussed how the hockey stick model was tossed out and yet not talked about by the IPCC after they discovered they forgot to include ocean data and therefore the Earth has actually gotten colder in the last 9 years. I can go on...but those facts always fall on deaf ears...cause the sky is falling...

 

Cheers

 

Sun

[alhuger]

What findings can possibly be derived from that? Climate has changed over 300 years...yes he proved that... Yes...climate was much WARMER than it is now... Yes he proved that. Yes it may go back to being warmer again... That is speculation but given global historical climate fluctuations over MILLIONS of years...only a fool would say the Earth could not get warm...or colder for that matter but when and why is almost certainly controlled by what processes over the past billion years contributed to that.

 

As for CO2 causing the Earth to go back to what it once was...is pure speculation and purely designed to get more grant money. As for addressing his theory specifically that if the Earth warms...droughts get worse... There are other studies that says as the Earth warms, the air holds more moisture and their is more rainfall.

 

A million year and we will know for sure. A few more years of colder temperatures and we will end this debate and start the ice age debate.

 

In truth it is very frustrating to talk specifics with the global warming religious zealots. I have shown the huge list of credible scientists the IPCC said endorsed the theory and in turn they flatly denied and said they just commented on paragraphs, chapters etc. I have talked in the past about credible geological historical data that refutes the global warming theory. I have gone at length discussing computer models and how they can not predict 3 days let along 3 week, 3 months, 3 years or 100 years out. I have discussed how the hockey stick model was tossed out and yet not talked about by the IPCC after they discovered they forgot to include ocean data and therefore the Earth has actually gotten colder in the last 9 years. I can go on...but those facts always fall on deaf ears...cause the sky is falling...

 

Cheers

 

Sun

 

 

I am not a global warming zealot in fact I am not really attached to the topic one way or another (although I do believe mankind contributes greatly to climate change). I was simply pointing out that you drew conclusions from the article that are wholly disassociated with what the article and it's referenced research said. When challenged on it you generally avoided addressing any of the shortcomings of what you posted and simply stood up some surface arguments in the direction of the points you would like to make. I also think you might want to take a re-think on the whole zealot moniker, reading your posts on this topic you sure look like you might want to hang that shingle out there for yourself.

 

 

 

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I am not a global warming zealot in fact I am not really attached to the topic one way or another (although I do believe mankind contributes greatly to climate change). I was simply pointing out that you drew conclusions from the article that are wholly disassociated with what the article and it's referenced research said. When challenged on it you generally avoided addressing any of the shortcomings of what you posted and simply stood up some surface arguments in the direction of the points you would like to make. I also think you might want to take a re-think on the whole zealot moniker, reading your posts on this topic you sure look like you might want to hang that shingle out there for yourself.

 

Those that believe in global warming are like a religious cult. If you are against them you are killing your own kids. I know cause I am friends with a number of them. That being said I find they do not listen to anything. All global warming studies are based upon a million assumptions and what if, and may happens... Then they build that into spending billions to solve something unproven.

 

As for doing studies for the money and not for honor...etc... I was once in that field. People ONLY do studies that they are paid to do. The money has to come from somewhere and it ALWAYS has strings attached. That is the benefit given to those that have the money. The Universities can sometimes get away with going against the norm but the funding is way lower than if you go with the flow. Universities rely on that funding money...so typically they always go with the flow.

 

You are right I was stretching my observations...but I laugh cause the whole global warming thing is a huge, huge stretch...and people forget that.

 

You want to read a book not written by Al Gore... try "The Deniers" The world-renowned scientists who stood up against global warming hysteria, political persecution, and fraud...by Lawrence Solomon.

[alhuger]

You want to read a book not written by Al Gore... try "The Deniers" The world-renowned scientists who stood up against global warming hysteria, political persecution, and fraud...by Lawrence Solomon.

 

 

I've read it, its arguments are fairly cogent and well thought out devoid of the sort of emotive cadence your posts have. I like the book.

 

al