Weight Forward...v.s...double Taper...

[beedhead]

When I started flyfishing...I always bought double taper...Cuz I was always in the rock, trees and every other place...but the water....And was very hard on lines...Flipped it around...and I had new line again...For the last few years I have used W.F. thinking it helps for distance...Does it??....It's been so long since I bought D.T...That I cant really remember if it makes a big diff or not ....With the price of flyline...I'm starting to think Double taper???...What do you guys think???

[Guest bigbadbrent]

easier to cast distance, deal with wind, big flies, etc etc with a WF. Double tapers lay flies down more gently, but don't cast distance well. Very, very few people fish DT's anymore

[Badger]

...

[beedhead]

The reason I ask is...I casted Myth1228's 4wt rod two days ago...For most the day...And it seemed to cast just fine with a 4wt DT. Scientific Anglers Mastery series line...And it was a fair bit windy

[beedhead]

With the right rod, you can carry more line in the air with a DT. Saves having to shoot line. I fish a DT floating on lakes almost exclusively. The reversing thing is a bonus.

 

Thats what I'm starting to think???...As I casted my buddy's 4wt DT...For most the day...And really couldn't tell a big diff...But I am used to casting a 5wt...So can't really say as of yet...

[DonAndersen]

I'm with Badger! DT's do the job better.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to pay the same amount for 1/2 a line.

And yes, I've got about 20 WF lines - use them for sinking lines.

And the silliest thing going has to be <6 weight WF lines that float.

 

catch ya'

 

 

Don

[Jimbo]

Lots of misunderstanding about the difference between the lines. The front 30 to 40 feet of the lines are the same (except for minor differences in front taper). The difference is in the back end of the lines. The back end of WF lines are skinny (this part called the running line) and DT lines remain fat throughout except for the final taper at the end. We fish with the front part of the line, correct? So the part of the line that is different is the part that is almost always on the reel. For casts less than 40 feet there is no difference in the way the lines behave. For casts beyond that the DT will false cast and roll cast better and the WF will shoot better. Probably the most significant difference is that the WF takes up about half the space on the reel. This is the main reason most people use WF lines in 5-wt and up, because they don't need a giant reel for that extremely light weight rod.

[Brownstone]

WF's more forgiving while casting a long line, can handle bigger flies & rigs such as steamers or mutiple nymphs but lack a little in delicate presentation. DT's are reversable, easier to mend, and present much nicer, but tend to be a little less forgiving casting. I used DT's exclusivley when living back east fishing salmon because of the reversable aspect, you very seldom have to cast a long line and the fact that your don't fish weighted gear

[maxwell]

i love dt's for rollcasting.. mainly because you are casting off the rear taper(similar too a spey line) but wf cast greater distances..

[reevesr1]

And the silliest thing going has to be <6 weight WF lines that float.

Hey Don,

Can you explain that statement?

 

Thanks!

[beedhead]

i love dt's for rollcasting.. mainly because you are casting off the rear taper(similar too a spey line) but wf cast greater distances..

 

Ya...I did some roll casting with Myth's Rod (4wt Orvis..DT.Mastery Series line)...And ya...Did it ever roll cast like a hot damn....

 

I remember Myth saying..."When did you get so good at roll casting"...Musta bin the line....I guess???...

[hydropsyche]

What I want to know is why the don't make WF lines with WF at both ends. That way, you can reverse the line when the front wears out just like a DT.

 

Probably no mystery. Planned obsolesence. ($$$)

 

If they did, I would buy one in a second.

[Weedy1]

What I want to know is why the don't make WF lines with WF at both ends. That way, you can reverse the line when the front wears out just like a DT.

 

You could but the shooting capabilities would then be limited. May as well use a DT line.

See Jim McLennan's post - Posted Today, 09:18 AM

[maxwell]

i figured dt were wf at both ends..... some have different tapers but i think that is all there is too it......

 

speylines are tapered near the rear down too the front so u transfer the energy from the back too the front like a bullwhip

 

weight forwards are just full runningline behing the taper

[Guest bigbadbrent]

i figured dt were wf at both ends..... some have different tapers but i think that is all there is too it......

 

 

The DT is essentially a large WF, with a belly of 80ish feet, instead of 20ish..WF's have a longer rear taper (since the rear taper on a DT is the forward taper when switched around)

 

Not really a WF at both ends, since the weight is on the belly, not the taper...should be called a Weight Middle taper

 

 

tons of different tapers

[DonAndersen]

rickr,

 

WF line are about distance. DT lines are about presentation. Wouldn't ya think that lines <6 wt. are primarily used for presentation of lighter flies @ closer ranges whereas WF's are used to chuck larger flies @ longer distances.

There is a host of difference between casting and lobbing flies. In casting flies, the mass of the line is adequate to carry the flies/leader along for the ride. Lobbing is kinda like a weight on the end of a string attached to a broom handle. Kinda like two #2 San Juan worms c/w an indicator the size of a golf ball all lobbed by a 2 weight.

 

catch ya'

 

Don

[Tako]

rickr,

 

WF line are about distance. DT lines are about presentation. Wouldn't ya think that lines <6 wt. are primarily used for presentation of lighter flies @ closer ranges whereas WF's are used to chuck larger flies @ longer distances.

There is a host of difference between casting and lobbing flies. In casting flies, the mass of the line is adequate to carry the flies/leader along for the ride. Lobbing is kinda like a weight on the end of a string attached to a broom handle. Kinda like two #2 San Juan worms c/w an indicator the size of a golf ball all lobbed by a 2 weight.

 

catch ya'

 

Don

 

You don't need a light presentation to fish a chironomad under a bobber Everyone wants to lob the big distances. Finess fishing is largely a lost art now a days.

 

I agree, DT's are the way to fly. Be nice if I could track one down in this town I have a WF on my 3wt and it is getting replaced as soon as I find a DT.

[hydropsyche]

You could but the shooting capabilities would then be limited. May as well use a DT line.

See Jim McLennan's post - Posted Today, 09:18 AM

 

If a DT is the same thickness as the front part of a WT, as Jim alludes to, then what we have it 30' of thick line followed by 60' of thinner shooting line. I rarely fish 90' of line. Maybe 60, but not usually. 30' of thick line followed by 30' of shooting line followed by 30' of thick line. It may limit my shooting capabilites but it might just meet my needs. Especially for nymphing.

[Guest bigbadbrent]

If a DT is the same thickness as the front part of a WT, as Jim alludes to, then what we have it 30' of thick line followed by 60' of thinner shooting line. I rarely fish 90' of line. Maybe 60, but not usually. 30' of thick line followed by 30' of shooting line followed by 30' of thick line. It may limit my shooting capabilites but it might just meet my needs. Especially for nymphing.

 

 

Look to my post, Rio Selective Trout DT..

[reevesr1]

rickr,

 

WF line are about distance. DT lines are about presentation. Wouldn't ya think that lines <6 wt. are primarily used for presentation of lighter flies @ closer ranges whereas WF's are used to chuck larger flies @ longer distances.

There is a host of difference between casting and lobbing flies. In casting flies, the mass of the line is adequate to carry the flies/leader along for the ride. Lobbing is kinda like a weight on the end of a string attached to a broom handle. Kinda like two #2 San Juan worms c/w an indicator the size of a golf ball all lobbed by a 2 weight.

 

catch ya'

 

Don

 

Ok.

Any time a question is asked "what rod should I use for the Bow" it is mostly a split between a 5 or a 6 in recommendations. I got a 5 wt and have WF line on it. But I do fish with nymphs, sjw's and "bobber" quite a bit. So I lobbing big weight quite often. But I also use the rod in smaller rivers and creeks. And then I obviously am casting much smaller and lighter stuff. Would it make sense to get a DT line on a different spool? I wouldn't imagine space is an issue, because how often are you going to see your backing on the Livingstone? Never?

 

I'm also a bit confused on some of the explanations. Seems like some are saying the DT and WF are very similar over the first 30-40 ft. If so, and if most delicate presentations are made over this distance, what is the advantage of DT in presentation? I guess I understand if you get to the running line that the weight difference between the WF and running line would make it difficult to present delicately, but wouldn't that problem be near the running line end of the taper, and not at the leader end of the line?

[hydropsyche]

Look to my post, Rio Selective Trout DT..

 

Perfect. Thats what I'm talking about. I'll be looking into that. Thanks.

 

edit: 55' of middle shooting line. Meets my needs even more

 

Rio Line

[maxwell]

that is exactly what i was talking about.. think most lines are all teh same minus the slight differences between the manufacturers......... thanks for the picture

[rusty]

I agree with Jim - the only difference will be once you pass the rear taper of the WF out of the tiptop guide. With a 9' rod, 9' leader, and a 30' front taper, you're looking at 48' to see any difference.

 

Can't imagine that many if any of us are doing much fishing beyond that distance around AB here. Maybe on the odd lake, but can't see it on the Bow, Crow, or any other stream around.

[Jimbo]

The DT is essentially a large WF, with a belly of 80ish feet, instead of 20ish..WF's have a longer rear taper (since the rear taper on a DT is the forward taper when switched around)

 

Not really a WF at both ends, since the weight is on the belly, not the taper...should be called a Weight Middle taper

tons of different tapers

 

 

Maybe we can clear up another common point of confusion. The front 30 feet of a WF 6 and the front 30 feet of a DT6 have the same weight in grains - they have to weigh the same or they're not both 6-wts. A weight forward line does not have extra weight in the front end, it has less weight in the back end (and yes, that makes it a somewhat misleading name). So the front end of a DT line and the front end of a comparable WF line have both the same weight and the same (or very similar) taper. This means there is no performance difference until the part of the line that is different (the line 30 to 40 feet from the end you're fishing with) is out past the rod tip. DT lines do not give more delicate presentations in the "usual" dry fly range, which for most people is 25 to 45 feet.

 

The diagrams Brent posted are helpful because they show the taper differences nicely. But notice that the third line from the top (weight forward) is thicker than the double taper above it. This means that this WF is a heavier line-weight than the DT.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Jim

[reevesr1]

Thanks guys! Very informative thread.

 

I will probably get some DT to use in small streams, and maybe for the Bow if I can still cram some backing on it. I think the fact that I can't cast all that far yet (limiting the advantage of WF in my case) combined with the fact I'm rough on my line (so would love to be able to reverse) and could use all the roll casting help I can get makes this line attractive.