BRH Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 do you have any concerns about the amount of lactic acid that builds up in the fishes muscles after a 20 minute fight? Absolutely I have concerns and release the fish accordingly. However, 20 minutes is nothing depending on what you're talking about. 2 hours isn't out of the question with a 140 pound tarpon. The length of the fight has a lot to do with the size of the fish and I'm not talking about a 10 inch minnow here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 ... lactic acid kills alot of fish ... Research done on Gorge Creek and the Bow River would suggest you're wrong Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monger Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 OK then. For me I will still fight them as fast as possible. It seems to be in their best interests to fight them quickly. It is very rare that I fight a fish for more than 4 min, then I'm off for the next one. I guess it depends on where you derive your pleasure from. For me it's the first 10-20 seconds of the fight. To each his own... I'm also one of those guys who plants his feet, well maybe walks straight back to the shoreline to land fish. There is very few fish in the Bow over 5lb, even 4lb. They are not that hard to fight once you turn them into some slower water. I guess everyone has to find a way that works for them. Here's a simple read for everyone: http://www.gofishbc.com/tips_articles/catch_release.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Research done on Gorge Creek and the Bow River ..... Could you provide some more info on this Pseudo. I would be interested in reading up some more on the topic. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdB Posted March 29, 2008 Author Share Posted March 29, 2008 Well there seems to be alot a different opinions about this. I do move with the fish if the fish warrents moving. I have also noticed that a few people have mentioned my line breaking. It never broke the fly just popped out which is why i asked originaly if i had put to much pressure on the fish and just pulled the fly out of its mouth. I tried the side pressure on a couple of fish the other day and it seemed to work well to move the fish where i wanted, but it was slower water and he was only 10-15 feet away from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Here's a simple read for everyone: http://www.gofishbc.com/tips_articles/catch_release.htm Very interesting reading. I wonder how Mr. Heise would explain catching a 21" Brown a second time, 15 minutes after releasing it from the first catch? I have some great video footage of the whole episode. Mr. Heise uses words like "may", "could" and "biologists believe" leaving all kinds of latitude because definitive data is non-existent. He refers to fish with "some kick still in them". I wonder how he would define, "some kick still in them"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monger Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Something else to read: Rapid recovery of exhausted adult coho salmon after commercial capture by troll fishing Anthony P. Farrell, Patricia E. Gallaugher, and Richard Routledge Abstract: To reduce mortality in the by-catch of commercial salmon fisheries, techniques are being explored to revive fish before live release and improve survival. By measuring blood and muscle variables, we demonstrated that capture of coho salmon (Oncorhynchus kisutch) by commercial trolling methods resulted in severe exhaustion and stress, e.g., muscle lactate reached 46.1 mmol·kg–1 while muscle phosphocreatine (PCr) decreased to 6.1 mmol·kg–1. Nevertheless, coho salmon recovered rapidly by swimming in a cage alongside the vessel while fishing activity continued. In particular, there were significant increases in muscle glycogen and PCr levels, and a decrease in muscle lactate after two hours. Notably, and in contrast to when exhausted fish are held stationary during recovery, plasma lactate remained low (<4 mmol·L–1) during recovery, a phenomenon observed in earlier laboratory studies with rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss). There was no postcapture delayed mortality after 24 h. Therefore, we have established that postexhaustion activity promotes a rapid recovery in wild salmon and this result might find application in nonretention commercial and recreational fishing. Thanks for your input Pseudonym. Perhaps long playing times are not as detrimental as prevously thought. I'll still fight the fish quickly, because I like to catch lots , but will hold my tongue when I watch others opting for the long battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Thanks for your input Pseudonym. Perhaps long playing times are not as detrimental as prevously thought. I'll still fight the fish quickly, because I like to catch lots , but will hold my tongue when I watch others opting for the long battle. I have seen monger pull in lots of fish super fast... I suspect it is his great skill in conjunction with the 20 lb test leader he uses. I saw him lift a large brown greater than 25 inches clear out of the water in order to take the hook out when he was fishing off the 22X bridge over the Bow... That was the day the lightning struck him on the head but it only made him stronger albeit hair challenged after that. Unfortunately for him the biggest problem he has is the fish groupies, the paparazzis, the witness protection program rules and sudden loss of motor control that causes him to fall down on paths...in rivers etc (hmmm or maybe he was just dodging bullets?). Needless to say he is one tall dude at 6' 8". Too bad that professional jai alai shot was blown after having to go back under cover in that black ops situation. At least he came out of that being able to bench press 541 lbs... Amazing fellow that monger is. :-) P.S. Actually I would put money down that monger is the best flyfisherman in Alberta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Could you provide some more info on this Pseudo. I would be interested in reading up some more on the topic. Thanks The two studies I referred to aren't exactly readily available. It's not likely you'll find them on the net. And neither were conducted for the purpose of determining stress or trout mortality as a result of high lactic acid levels. The one on the bow studied the impact of angling on Rainbow Trout natality as the trout congregate at the mouth of the Highwood before the spawn. The other studied the mobility of trout and their "homing" tendencies. While neither directly studied the mortality of trout resulting from exhaustion, both indirectly provide evidence regarding the ability of trout to recover from a battle. Both studies are available through Fish and Wildlife if you find the right person to talk to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadbrent Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 The two studies I referred to aren't exactly readily available. It's not likely you'll find them on the net. And neither were conducted for the purpose of determining stress or trout mortality as a result of high lactic acid levels. The one on the bow studied the impact of angling on Rainbow Trout natality as the trout congregate at the mouth of the Highwood before the spawn. The other studied the mobility of trout and their "homing" tendencies. While neither directly studied the mortality of trout resulting from exhaustion, both indirectly provide evidence regarding the ability of trout to recover from a battle. Both studies are available through Fish and Wildlife if you find the right person to talk to. One email that i sent a week ago produces this http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fieldoffices/prai...blications.aspx with this being the highwood spawn one, http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fieldoffices/prai...ters_Thesis.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 P.S. Actually I would put money down that monger is the best flyfisherman in Alberta! That's quite the compliment! And quite the statement considering you have master fly casters in Calgary that can double haul an entire fly line and some backing to boot. And the fact that there are some very accomplished and famous fly fishers in the region. I can only assume from your statement that monger must be one of those elite few who are both. I will keep that in mind. Thanks for the heads up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 One email that i sent a week ago produces this http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fieldoffices/prai...blications.aspx with this being the highwood spawn one, http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fieldoffices/prai...ters_Thesis.pdf Thanks bigbadbrent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadbrent Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 good timing is all I'd annually go looking for that once a month, cause i wanted to read it again, and finally i emailed them bitching about how their own links send them into vicious portals of government doom..guess they hid it on us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luukesh Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 This thread confuses me......I blame pilsner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 That's quite the compliment! And quite the statement considering you have master fly casters in Calgary that can double haul an entire fly line and some backing to boot. And the fact that there are some very accomplished and famous fly fishers in the region. I can only assume from your statement that monger must be one of those elite few who are both. I will keep that in mind. Thanks for the heads up. Someone that can cast a whole fly line does not mean that they can catch fish with a similar skill. A graceful, accomplished, expert flycaster is a work of art to watch and brings a tear to my eye as I hack away. Turning that into pure unadulterated fish catching prowess is another matter. I stand by my statement...he is also a great guy, super flycaster as well but don't tell him I said that or I will deny it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I stand by my statement... That's a pretty bold statement without outlining the criteria to support your statement. To some people, line casting ability would be the criteria. To other people, the ability to catch fish regardless of their casting ability would be the criteria. To some it would be both, as I indicated. Others might include the ability and willingness to teach other fly casters the art of both casting and catching. Then there's the size of the fish that some may throw into the mix making one of the criteria the ability to consistently get into big fish. To some the criteria may also include the individual's active promotion of the sport and preservation of the resource. When you state monger is "the best flyfisherman in Alberta", it means different things to different people. To me it means all of the above and conjures up an image in my mind's eye of a handful of fishers I have had the priviledge of encountering on the Bow. You may or may not know them. They're the guys who you avoid being around on the river because they're frustrating to follow. They seem to always have a fish on, their casts are poetry in motion, and it doesn't seem to matter who they're with, all their companions are seemingly mirrors of themselves. I have no doubt monger is a terrific fly fisher but I know of only 4 or 5 such individuals that I would put into a "best flyfishermen in Alberta" class. It may be that monger is one of those 4 or 5, his pseudonym ensures his annonymity. If he is, he is certainly part of an elite group of fly fisherman. Picking which one of that elite group is the best would be a difficult task indeed. And due to modesty, not one of them would take you up on your challenge. They don't need to. They'd rather be out there standing next to a guy, on his first day of flyfishing in his life, fighting a fish. And besides that, there's always some one out there better on any given day. Having said that, it is obvious you recognize monger with great deal of esteem. It is a wonderful compliment you pay him. It is likely I will never receive a compliment as flattering as that. I should like to meet him on the river some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdB Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 Sundance is just being nice so that monger will show him all his secret spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Sundance is just being nice so that monger will show him all his secret spots. actually I never met the guy. He may be only 14 for all I know :-). He is an Oilers fan though... pseudonym...I would say I rank flyfishermen the same way you do! Let's hope for more and more of them in the future! Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 pseudonym...I would say I rank flyfishermen the same way you do! Let's hope for more and more of them in the future! Amen to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdB Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 This thread confuses me......I blame pilsner that's funny...i blame lucky....who hijacked this into a monger is the best thread? I'd say he has some big shoes to fill but if he is 6'8 he allready fills big shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monger Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Now I'm really confused about this thread. The last time I took Sundancefisher fishing he yelled at me at least a dozen times, "YOU SUCK!". Now this is REALY how he feels about my fishing ability and not all this other flattery crap (trying to find out some more fishing spots that Rickr showed me). I'm sure Pseudo knows some real pro fishermen that I could learn tons from. I like the idea of someone trying to pass on info gained from experience, that is a great quality. Hopefully this thread will die before it gets any stranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 How the hell did I get dragged into this?? Monger, if I had known you were so damn good, I would have followed you around a bit more. Actually, Troutlover and I came up on Monger a couple of weeks ago. As soon as I saw him, I told Troutlover "we might as well go somewhere else. There's nothing left to catch here." While I would love to stand there and watch him catch fish, I'm the type that gets frustrated when someone else is catching and I am not. So I left. And the other reason, to get this slightly back on topic, is he laughs at me when I chase fish downstream, screaming, "side pressure you weenie!" OK, I made that part up. But if he ever saw me chase a fish, he would say something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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