bcubed Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Glenmore is operational, 22x is operational, policemens is operational (if not a bit shitty), mackinnons, jansens, carseland.. I'm not trying to troll you, but we're at pretty well an equivalent place we were prior to the flood. That doesn't mean we're at the right number of launches (as we're not), but pointing a finger at the flood as a reason we should have more launches is short-sighted. We have been critically short of access for as long as people have been floating the thing, mostly as the city has taken a complete laissez-faire attitude towards them. hopefully this new strategy will change it. If we're going to be limited in what the city will approach, I'd much rather put a launch somewhere that will make the biggest overall difference, not one where it will simply add convenience to the day. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinkster Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 There's already a launch in place just above Deerfoot at southland. Would just need to be given access. might be nice as I hate pretty much most of the water from glenmore to the foot bridge at sue Higgins. Are you talking the Quarry Park launch? There are other issues with that one than just the Fire Department. Users would need to cross private land in order to access the launch. There are also no parking considerations in that area. I don't think we can half-ass access points, especially within the City limits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFish Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 I don't feel you are trolling.. I appreciate the conversation. It is what I asked for 😊 Well if I use your reasoning of putting one in the NW, we are arguing the opposite side of the same coin. From anywhere in the north of Calgary you can drive to and access the river from Glenmore trail. Even if it is inconvenient for you. As accessing the one at sikome is inconvenient for me. As I mentioned I am not against adding one or 2 or 10 in the north as well. But if there are only going to be 2 there should be one at 194th and one in the north. Saying one shouldn't be at 194th because there is one 5kms away is a super slanted and short sighted view. Since there is a locked gate at sikome that they will not open and the rest of fish Creek Park to drive around. It is actually a 16km one way or 20kms the other for access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFish Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Not to mention that boat launch is locked shut I belive at 10pm I side of fish reek park at sikome. At 194th it could be open 24/7 allowing a better spot for boat removal on a later evening float Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningChrome Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Well if I use your reasoning of putting one in the NW, we are arguing the opposite side of the same coin. From anywhere in the north of Calgary you can drive to and access the river from Glenmore trail. Even if it is inconvenient for you. As accessing the one at sikome is inconvenient for me. Um, no. Adding a launch in the NW isn't about inconvenience, it's about giving people the ability to float a section that they currently cannot and spreading some of the boat traffic out. You want to add another launch a few km downstream from an existing launch in a section that is already accessible. Not the same coin at all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutPanther Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I don't feel you are trolling.. I appreciate the conversation. It is what I asked for 😊 Well if I use your reasoning of putting one in the NW, we are arguing the opposite side of the same coin. From anywhere in the north of Calgary you can drive to and access the river from Glenmore trail. Even if it is inconvenient for you. As accessing the one at sikome is inconvenient for me. As I mentioned I am not against adding one or 2 or 10 in the north as well. But if there are only going to be 2 there should be one at 194th and one in the north. Saying one shouldn't be at 194th because there is one 5kms away is a super slanted and short sighted view. Since there is a locked gate at sikome that they will not open and the rest of fish Creek Park to drive around. It is actually a 16km one way or 20kms the other for access. Maybe a simpler solution would be to allow access to fish creek boat launch from the Sikome side? No infrastructure spend required. 22x - police is already a pretty short float. I agree it's a pain in the ass to have to head all the way up Deerfoot and back down bow bottom, but I don't think a new launch is an answer. I think opening the (in some cases existing) NW launches and a launch just below Harvie passage would be ideal as they would open up new water. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishteck Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 BurningChrome: An interesting comment. The debate taking place right now is what is a good boat launch, how to protect them against future floods and keep the abusers off river bottoms. Not a lot different to what we see in the back country with RV use where the general public can access the wilderness areas without damage to sensitive areas. For the fishing community and those who develop boat ramps, Fish Creek Provincial Park boat ramp is considered the "gold standard". It has everything that government officials and the public want, but at a very high cost. What we (CRUA) expects to see within the city is improvement to the existing boat ramps that allow for public access and Fire Department use. and protection of the environment in the most cost effective way to Calgary. AEP has exactly the same mandate with river access on public land. Opening up and improving river access above and below Calgary will only take place with public advocacy. There's the problem, lots of talk within the fishing community as we see on the Forum, but no, or very little concerted action or discussions with the authorities. Hopefully this will change once our community see the boat ramp improvements within Calgary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinkster Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Maybe a simpler solution would be to allow access to fish creek boat launch from the Sikome side? This speaks to some of the bigger traffic impact studies that need to be considered from a City of Calgary standpoint. Opening up access on the Sikome side may be great for river users, but it opens up our road networks to a whole lot of cut thru traffic on roadways that are not designed for that kind of volume. This is why a thoughtful approach is absolutely necessary when we plan access. I'd much rather see money spent on a better launch on the north side of the river from Police than consider a new launch at 194th. Access stacked closely like that isn't an efficient use of space or funds. Most of us might love the idea of having a boat launch in our backyards, but that isn't likely to happen. It would be pretty cringe worthy if everyone who had to drive 20 minutes to get to a launch made the case they needed a launch closer and got their way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFish Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Um, no. Adding a launch in the NW isn't about inconvenience, it's about giving people the ability to float a section that they currently cannot and spreading some of the boat traffic out. You want to add another launch a few km downstream from an existing launch in a section that is already accessible. Not the same coin at all. Well If you read my above post again, I have said I think there SHOULD be more in the north as well. That has was not the question, and I feel no one is debating that fact, not even for a second. To exclude one down at 194th just becasue there is another one a few kms away is short sighted and plain stupid. AS mentioned, That boat launch can be 100 feet away but it wouldn't matter if you do not have access to it. Having to drive 20 mins around fishcreek park just for access is that same thing as that launch being 18-20 kms away. No different than having to drive from the U of C to Glenmore trail to launch a boat. Same coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinkster Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Well If you read my above post again, I have said I think there SHOULD be more in the north as well. That has was not the question, and I feel no one is debating that fact, not even for a second. To exclude one down at 194th just becasue there is another one a few kms away is short sighted and plain stupid. AS mentioned, That boat launch can be 100 feet away but it wouldn't matter if you do not have access to it. Having to drive 20 mins around fishcreek park just for access is that same thing as that launch being 18-20 kms away. No different than having to drive from the U of C to Glenmore trail to launch a boat. Same coin. Take a look at the news, we need to accept the fact that we have a finite amount of public resources that will go towards these kinds of things. It sure would be nice if our government to be all things to all people, but that isn't going to happen. We need to prioritize where the right places for access are. If that means some people need to drive 20 minutes (God forbid) and we bridge a few glaring gaps in our network, I think that is a reasonable trade off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFish Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Take a look at the news, we need to accept the fact that we have a finite amount of public resources that will go towards these kinds of things. It sure would be nice if our government to be all things to all people, but that isn't going to happen. We need to prioritize where the right places for access are. If that means some people need to drive 20 minutes (God forbid) and we bridge a few glaring gaps in our network, I think that is a reasonable trade off. Let me say it once again perhaps it will be read this time.. Anyone who is arguing that fact that there should be more launches in the north ISNT WRONG, I AGREE!! I agree with you. on all levels.. except that in my humble opinion there is a gap down here as well. This isnt a "man i am lazy, i dont wanna drive 20 mins each way" conversation. This is discussing having a 24 hour, 7 day a week launch outside of Sikome with great accessibility for everyone south of fishcreek park, on land where there are no houses/people to disturb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningChrome Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Well If you read my above post again, I have said I think there SHOULD be more in the north as well. That has was not the question, and I feel no one is debating that fact, not even for a second. Maybe you should read your post again. You equated putting a boat launch in the NW as an inconvenience issue. I said it's not an inconvenience issue, it's that no publicly accessible launches exist for that stretch. At all. Putting a launch in the NW opens up a new stretch of river to floating. It isn't about someone wanting a new launch so they don't have to drive a little further to get to an existing boat launch that already covers the same stretch of water. This isnt a "man i am lazy, i dont wanna drive 20 mins each way" conversation. You're not doing a very good job then, because that is exactly how it reads. Look back at your earlier posts... Down here we get the short end of the stick. there is a boat launch on the west bank up near Sikome lake which everyone knows about.. The downside, is the only access to it is from the deer run side. That means you have to drive way up and around fish creek just to do a big loop back to where you started from. other than that, you have to float down to policeman's flats. I am not sure about the small inconvenience you talk about... it is a fairly large one. Right now if you live pretty well anywhere south of fish creek park, you have no access to a boat launch or take out point except for driving way up around fish creek park through sikome. The access is blocked off so that people dont short cut through Sikome from the Sundance entrance.. which would be a huge short cut shaving off alot of time from a drive all the way up Macloed trail to bow bottom Honestly, all that makes it sound like you just don't want to drive a few minutes extra to launch at 22X. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcubed Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 L This is discussing having a 24 hour, 7 day a week launch outside of Sikome with great accessibility for everyone south of fishcreek park, on land where there are no houses/people to disturb. It's called Policemens 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangus Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 City launch/take out, (potential) repair to graves, improvement to the policemens cluster F boat sinker take out and id be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinkster Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I should also point out that the southern boundary for Fish Creek is 194th Ave. Any launch there would have to pass through the park and would be subject to the same time restrictions as the 22X launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcubed Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (plus, the end of that road is still within Fish Creek PP) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFish Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 haha nice one Bcube.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFish Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Obviously I opened a can of worms here with everyone feeling that the north should get all the love.. Fair enough .. I suppose that answers my original question. I personally will still fight tooth and nail for one south at or around 194th ave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishteck Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Just got back from 194 Ave SW.. Scouting out discussions on a boat launch. The thought was to look at the Pine Creek Water Treatment site or the Tree Nursery downstream and adjacent to Deerfoot Trail. Interestingly enough there is a walk in access and a parking lot just upstream of the Pine Creek facility. With the high bank, a boat ramp in this location would be difficult, but not impossible. . What is a problem is low flows in the back channel (75CMS today),the potential for for RV access to the river bed and islands and conflicts with wade in fishermen. If a boat launch was to be considered in this general area, it would need to be further downstream, closer to the bridge in the mainstream of the river to accommodate year round use. All this talk about the time it takes to get on the river is nonsense, I live in the northwest of the city and it can take me an hour to get to Graves Bridge some mornings and longer to Fish Creek or Policeman's Flats. Does a 20 min. travel time have any impact on 10 hours of river drift / fishing time? Does anyone expect the city or the province to cater to those individuals who want to launch a boat 20 min. from home? No. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcubed Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Peter, east bank seems more suitable for a launch with the recent infrastructure that is going in place and is in the city limits. That West Bank is also outside bend and took an absolute wallop in the flood (as you know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishteck Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Becube: Your are right the west bank is subject to damage with another flood like we had in 2013. Downstream of the Deerfoot Bridge would be better protected. Consider the following criteria when looking at boat launch sites: Access into a year round deep body of water. Restriction of access to the riverbed City road access, and security issues. Adequate parking space for truck/trailer and car use for now and into the future Availability of the land. City and provincial ownership is preferential. Potential DFO and AEP regulations - Likelihood of site approval. Access to shuttle services. Cost to develop site Keeping these criteria in mind, is Pine Creek access the most suitable site? I will let others on the chat page respond! We need to keep in mind that the proximity to Fish Creek may take Pine Creek off the table. In addition a boat launch further down the river on the north/east side close to Policeman's Flats is far more attractive to develop. Also the current river access strategy is addressing sites that can be developed for public access over the next 2 -3 years and at a reasonable cost to the city. I will have more details on this subject within a couple of weeks. As I have said earlier, the bigger picture of river access is within the Bow River Basin from Cochrane to Carsland that needs to be addressed ASAP. Fishtech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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