Cutthroat Sizes

[DonA]

Folks,

 

Was pondering the sizes of cuts caught in Michel Creek, BC & Oldman drainages vs N & S Ram River. Have caught several cuts <> 22" @ 3 lbs. from the Rams but nothing over 20" and perhaps 1.5 ls. From either the Oldman area or BC.

The water quality appears to be higher in both southern areas than the Rams.

 

Any ideas on why the difference?

 

Catch ya'

 

 

Don

 

[FraserN]

Dave (Jensen) wrote an article that claimed the reason for the larger sizes in the ram river drainage for Cutthroat trout is that the waters are colder than southern streams, so that the fish in the ram live several years longer because of their slower metabolism. Hence the reason they grow larger than their southern counterparts.

[Hawgstoppah]

couple of year ago (maybe 3 or 4) I was getting some cutts up to 23-23.5 inches from southern BC drainages. The last few years have been different. Maybe just population dynamics. I haven't ever seen a bonafide 22+ cutty in Alberta except for ONE freak fish, which I got right in Lee Creek. I have seen many in BC. I think regulations and controls have more to do with it than anything (a lot less random camping and quadding in BC, right?)

[alan2]

Two summers ago I got a 23" in the Westcastle but nothing near that big since. The way it fought it was definitely a senior citizen of the fish family.

[slingshotz]

couple of year ago (maybe 3 or 4) I was getting some cutts up to 23-23.5 inches from southern BC drainages. The last few years have been different. Maybe just population dynamics. I haven't ever seen a bonafide 22+ cutty in Alberta except for ONE freak fish, which I got right in Lee Creek. I have seen many in BC. I think regulations and controls have more to do with it than anything (a lot less random camping and quadding in BC, right?)

 

I have managed a 20"+ cuttie from the Elbow last year but nothing like in BC. I just got back from three days of fly fishing in the Kootenays and the biggest difference I've noticed is the amount of waters available to fish vs the population. We fished in three classified fishing rivers (one was fly only) that are popular guided ones and I saw ONE float boat and no other walk and waders. There are TONS of places to random camp in BC with all the forestry roads, we did about 120km on the forestry roads and barely saw anyone random camping,. There's just too large a population in Calgary and too few places to go. Much as I hate the classified water licences for non-residents (I would totally pay extra for an annual one like residents can get), I think their regs do really help the quality of the fishery.

 

Some of our rivers down south should be changed to one only or zero limit. And for reference I am not a strict C&R fisherman but I practice “limit your kill, don’t kill your limit" (except when it comes to brookies ).

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

I put a client into a 24-inch CT on the Racehorse (on a pink thing) in 2005. I thought it was a small bully for most of the fight - couldn't believe it when we landed it.

 

There's a few creeks down in southern BC that (so I've been told) produce large CTs because of the mining that has taken place in their upper reaches (more minerals/nutrients in the river).

[reevesr1]

I fish in SE BC quite a bit. There are a few systems with an outstanding average size, but in many ways they don't act the same as the cutts on this side, at least to me. Seem to be much less willing to come up to anything. When there is a hatch going on, the fishing can be prolific, but much of the time you are just scratching your head wondering why they don't act like cutts! I often wonder if it is because of a higher nutrient load in those rivers? A decent number of bigger fish (more biomass than one would expect), and more selective due to more food sources?

 

[slingshotz]

I fish in SE BC quite a bit. There are a few systems with an outstanding average size, but in many ways they don't act the same as the cutts on this side, at least to me. Seem to be much less willing to come up to anything. When there is a hatch going on, the fishing can be prolific, but much of the time you are just scratching your head wondering why they don't act like cutts! I often wonder if it is because of a higher nutrient load in those rivers? A decent number of bigger fish (more biomass than one would expect), and more selective due to more food sources?

 

I noticed the same thing these last couple of days, We fished a nice big pool this year that we fished last year about the same time in BC. I got a few on a dry but when I changed to a nymph I landed about a dozen in an hour, we didn't think there were that many fish in the pool. The nymph really didn't matter either, we tried about 6 different ones and they all equally caught fish.

 

All three of the rivers we fished in the Kootenays behaved the same way, 80% of the cutties were on the nymph but the largest of them I did catch on the dry but it was on the most remote river. I know that's normal for other fish but I've had lots of cutties in the Elbow go for the standard dry stimmie.

[peetso]

[reevesr1]

I wish I hadn't read that Slignshotz! I have been trying very, very hard to resist the nymph temptation in BC, telling myself (but never truly believing it) that it wouldn't work. So now I'll have a freakin' dilemma next time I'm there! What I have found is that if you have patience, at some point they will get on the surface action. But waiting is HARD sometimes, particularly when you see some beasts in the bottom of the pool.

 

[slingshotz]

Elbow cuttie about 21"

 

BC cuttie about 15"

 

I know what you mean Rick, cutties are meant for the dry fly. I'm making a habit nowadays to carry two rods at all times, one dry and one nymph. It's too much of a pain in the ass changing rigs all the time. You sure those big fish at the bottom aren't big dollies/bulls? My wife caught a nice bull on the streamer in a big pool too:

 

[reevesr1]

I know what you mean Rick, cutties are meant for the dry fly. I'm making a habit nowadays to carry two rods at all times, one dry and one nymph. It's too much of a pain in the ass changing rigs all the time. You sure those big fish at the bottom aren't big dollies/bulls? My wife caught a nice bull on the streamer in a big pool too:

Oh, there are some big bullies to go with the big cutts!

 

[shredneck]

'Nymphing for cutts is like going gay for the sex."

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

'Nymphing for cutts is like going gay for the sex."

 

Never heard that anal-ogy before..

[SteveM]

'Nymphing for cutts is like going gay for the sex."

 

What analogy do we use for fishing a big-arse SJW for cutts?

 

 

I'll bet it's really sick & twisted...

 

[shredneck]

What analogy do we use for fishing a big-arse SJW for cutts?

 

 

I'll bet it's really sick & twisted...

 

 

Oh no!!

 

Unfortunately the analogy for sjw on cutts is not suitable for a public forum.

 

(great photo though)

 

[Hawgstoppah]

What analogy do we use for fishing a big-arse SJW for cutts?

 

 

I'll bet it's really sick & twisted...

 

hahaha awesome *high fives*

 

I tried one for cutts a while back, not sure where they dig natural worms up in a rock filled river....

 

[bowbonehead]

Much like the other trout strains as they get bigger their diet tends to change. If you want to catch bigger cuts fish streamers as the big boys prefer meat including their own young Caught many a big cut fishing for bullies not to say they won't take a dry,nymph etc.... after all they tend to be opportunists because of their location

[SteveM]

Much like the other trout strains as they get bigger their diet tends to change. If you want to catch bigger cuts fish streamers as the big boys prefer meat including their own young Caught many a big cut fishing for bullies not to say they won't take a dry,nymph etc.... after all they tend to be opportunists because of their location

 

Agreed; probably good to toss 'em something different from what everyone else has been showing 'em, too.

Ran into a guy last week who was throwing a big ol' deer hair mouse pattern up tight to undercut banks; swore he gets some big cutts that way.

He said he fishes the mouse in areas that have been fished through a bunch & it works.

 

[reevesr1]

I was at a high mountain lake this weekend. The dry fly fishing was outstanding, and the size was very impressive for a high mountain lake. Until my heathen friends says "it's wolly bugger time!" and starts tossing a green bugger and slowly stripping it. The fish he caught were MUCH bigger than the ones we had been catching on the dries. They ate the bugger like cutty candy.

 

 

[kevbine]

Using the dirty worm for cutties is a sign of desperation for sure! The beauty of fishing for them is seeing the take, we all know that it is not for the fight, rainbows fight much better.

I do understand that many times if u r on an SE BC stream before noon it can be difficult to get a cuthroat to rise. Patience my friends, patience!

[Brookie]

Upper Elk (above Sparwood): Up to 24". Average adult size 16" to 20"

Elk (below Sparwood): Up to 22". Average adult size 15" to 17"

Michel Creek: Up to 22". Average adult size 16" to 19"

Wigwam: Up to 22". Average adult size 16" to 19"

I am sure there are inaccuracies here but it is a snapshot of general sizes in the Elk drainage for the last couple of years. Sorry no pictures.

[DaveJensen]

I saw this back in the summer but had no time to comment. In discussing carrying capacity & limiting factors - be it growth potential of a population or size of an individual - what factors are present in an environment? Spawning, juvenile rearing, feeding, resting, wintering, etc...

I truly believe that in the case of the N & S Ram and possibly/likely in the remote bits of the Castle or lower Blackstone system the limitation to the population is wintering habitat. The pools on the N & S Ram have finite carrying capacity during winter. In the case of the N Ram, there might be 3 or 4 km of summer trout forced to winter together. Ergo, how many fry/juveniles will make it through the winter sharing a pool with a 20" male? How many nymphs float through to support those fish? How much anchor/frazil ice rips at the fish? If the pool loses 20% of its wintered fish once winter, stress of spawn, and run-off all have a turn at starved winter trout, you're left with even fewer.

Sure, they move out during the summer season, but the limiting factor is winter.

I say it's the same as having 6 sections of farm land. In the summer you might run 500 head of cattle. But, come winter, if those cows all have to share 1/2 of one quarter, there is going to be mortailty and only the strongest will survive - the limiting factor of winter suggests that only the strongest will survive. And the few trout that are the strongest will be afforded essentially unlimited feed during summer months when the few survivers have free reign of the hatches. If you look at the low population reaches of the S Ram and the N Ram in general, they are spotty numbers of fish but some of the larger you will find. Once you get into the more productive reaches of the canyon or the lower N Ram there is a more traditional/classic population pyramid.

 

And when you think of it this way, realize what's going on, and see why there are a few big fish but not many, you begin to question why you need to catch them - why fish streamers, for example? If you know that mortality is higher using spoons or streamers, is catching a 'big' (relative to cutts) cutty using those methods worth it, just to do it to prove you did it, when you know you have a 2 - 3 times likelihood killing one of a few dozen larger fish in the entire N Ram? Having caught the same fish from the same pools many years in a row, you notice these things. There is a FINITE pie. Having caught Big Mama 11 straight years and seeing her go from a 15" robust fish to a 22-1/2" bold and beautiful to a slimmer one at the end. It's interesting. We're talking specific fish here. And there are only so many - exactly what can be supported through winter.

[Paula]

I rarely post .. Yet alone post photos.. but I just wanted to show that there are still pretty good size cutties still being caught on dries you just need to work to get them! 19" Fat Cuttie

[Roast]

Wow, great fish! On another note, there goes the theory you need to wear dull colors to be successful:) Thanks for posting.