Ed. Journal Letter Re Quads & Random Camping

[TerryH]

There is an excellent letter in today's Edmonton Journal concerning the problems with random camping, quads, and the whole mess that is happening in SW Alberta. Hats off to this fellow flyfisher who took the time to call attention to the deplorable situation that exists in the Oldman and Castle drainages.

 

Have a look here:

Letter to the editor, Edmonton Journal, Sept. 23, 2010

[ÜberFly]

 

 

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[jasonvilly]

Very well written letter!

 

However unfortunately the counter point I forsee will be the explanation from ATVers that not all ATV owner/operators disrespect the land. In so far that it is a select few who are ruining it for everybody (OHV, campers, fishermen etc) I think this would be a prudent argument, how many fishermen break the rules with little to no enforcement also.

 

To lump all ATV owners into 1 group is an eggrerious mistake and unfair. I would not want to be lumped into the category of poacher just because I fly fish like some people who break limit rules.

 

There obviously needs to be a discourse between government, ATV owners and outdoorsmen about the sustainability of our rivers for the future. I believe this is starting to happen, but to peg all of the problems to one group. This will only serve to infuriate them and make them push back harder and possibly become even more degenerate in terms of our environment. It would be far easier to work with OHV operators to come up with a plan that best balances the needs of the environment, and the communities that enjoy them.

 

 

[ironfly]

OK jasonvilly, you're either a quadder, or you love playing devils advocate. Or maybe you just didn't think before you wrote. According to you, if poachers are responsible for the collapse of fish stocks in a given river, you should still be allowed to fish there, because it wasn't your fault.

 

Lots of places restrict quad use to designated trails. Why should Alberta be last in every stage of enlightenment? Do you remember when seatbelt laws came in?

[ironfly]

Sorry, I could've phrased that more politely, but I'm passionate about the issue, and I'm having a bad day.

[jasonvilly]

Junior

 

Fair enough

 

I am not a quadder but my father is and knowing him I know that he is quite responsible with the use of his quad and camping. He sticks to trails or designated off road areas and never crosses waterways unless there is a bridge. He loves quadding and I would hate to see him severly punished because of the disrespect of others. He enjoys the outdoors and equally he wants his use to be sustainable for himself and other outdoor users.

 

"According to you, if poachers are responsible for the collapse of fish stocks in a given river, you should still be allowed to fish there, because it wasn't your fault."

 

My intention with the comment about poachers was more aimed towards the point of, I wouldn't want strict restrictions passed on the bow river in response to conservation officials who have found other stocks in other rivers in the province reduced by poachers. I don't want a general rule for fishermen or quadders that makes generalizations from one area which are then applied to ALL areas.

 

I am a fisherman and love the outdoors, but I know alot of other groups love the outdoors as well and I want them to be able to enjoy it in their own way that is sustainable and takes into account other users. Maybe I am just the devils advocate.

 

I do agree that our rivers, mountains, foothills, forests etc are being misused currently, something we are sadly now starting to realize. If we want to change this for the future we need to discontinue the blame game and work together harmonisouly to change the rules for the betterment of the environment for all users. (wether it be sticter rules or better enforcement etc)

 

Creating enemies in a fight for the same thing is irresponsible. Yes some quadders do a lot more damage than the rest of us, but there are also some quadders who do alot of good as well.

 

 

 

 

[reevesr1]

The more I fish in the back country, the more I am coming to the conclusion that while the majority of ATV owners may be responsible, the behavior of those who are not are forcing action. I can fish in BC and only see quads on forestry roads and trails. I've never seen a trail by a river (not to say they don't exist, just that I haven't seen one). Fish the back country in Alberta and evidence of quads is everywhere. Not to mention the camping.

 

Why is it I can go to BC and most every little road ends in a small, clean campsite (and almost always empty), whereas if I dare venture into the Castle system (I actually avoid the Liv and Oldman for the most part) every little clearing has a RV crammed into it, mostly for the season.

 

I'm not generally an advocate of limiting access to anyone. I think I try to error on the side of inclusion. But the more I fish in the two provinces, the more I think BC has it way more right. I don't really know what all the rule differences are, but from what I see they have a better handle on land management than we do.

 

 

[Giovanne]

"insert broken record here"

 

There is definately a probelm with a few rogue quadders, but the "real" issue lies with the gross lack of enforcement and maybe tougher laws for the lawbreakers when they are caught. If one of these hillbillies knew a buddy who had his quad confiscated because he was ripping up a creek maybe things would change. First things first; proper enforcement is the only thing that will change this.

 

Lack of enforcement equates no rules.

 

The "real" problem is our current Provincial Government.

[Hawgstoppah]

"insert broken record here"

 

There is definately a probelm with a few rogue quadders, but the "real" issue lies with the gross lack of enforcement and maybe tougher laws for the lawbreakers when they are caught. If one of these hillbillies knew a buddy who had his quad confiscated because he was ripping up a creek maybe things would change. First things first; proper enforcement is the only thing that will change this.

 

Lack of enforcement equates no rules.

 

The "real" problem is our current Provincial Government.

 

well said and I couldn't agree more.

[ironfly]

Broken record is right. I've got as much cynicism in me as the next guy, and I just don't think an increase in enforcement is going to happen. I've written my share of letters, but all you incurable optimists are welcome to keep hounding your MLA's. Maybe your grandchildren will see the difference it made. So to me, saying that enforcement, and nothing else, will fix the problem is almost as bad as just giving up. Anyone who's seen the difference in Alberta's watersheds over the last thirty years knows that we don't have that kind of time.

 

To carry on the fishing/poaching analogy, when they put C&R or even a closure on a river, the fish stocks generally recover. Sure, some people continue to poach it, but the regulation changes have the desired effect. I think that quadding restrictions, specific to problem areas, would do the same. Most people end up obeying laws, even when they disagree with them. How many people think the Boaters Card is a good idea? Most still got it anyway.

[trailhead]

I was just up in the area and noticed this letter to the editor was published in the local paper under "Open letter to Mel Knight". I hope it helps because the rural votes are worth something like 8 times more than the urban ones. I also saw something that I am a bit confused about. Are random campers allowed to cut down trees for firewood? Because in this area there had been obvious tree cutting going on, not massive cutting but whoever it was had selectively cut trees within the forest. They had an area down out of view where they had cut the trees into smaller pieces, a good sized pile of sawdust was left behind. Along with the usual assortment of beer cans, water bottles and an empty bait minnow container.