dryfly Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Check back here after 1 PM today (Tuesday August 28) ... http://gateway.cd.gov.ab.ca/firebans.aspx Lady at Parks told me this morning that there is to be an announcement at 1 PM today regarding possible opening of some campgrounds on the FTR. I'd be surprise .. but nothing surprises me any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnF Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Check back here after 1 PM today (Tuesday August 28) ... http://gateway.cd.gov.ab.ca/firebans.aspx Lady at Parks told me this morning that there is to be an announcement at 1 PM today regarding possible opening of some campgrounds on the FTR. I'd be surprise .. but nothing surprises me any more. As much as I would like to personally see this happen (for selfish reasons), I just can't bring myself to believe that they would open this back up for the long weekend when people are chomping at the bit to get there and therefore increasing the potential dangers. They've had no precip or moisture at all to warrant an opening....I'd be surprised as well and if they do, I'll love to hear the logic behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryfly Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 I totally agree with your thinking Lynn...was shocked when the lady told this to me....just passing along a story..shall see how it shakes out. Hate to see the sky full of forest fire smoke again. Was sure purdy last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchDryfly Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Followed the precip myself daily on the net and I can't find any substantial amount that will allow the area to open up again. For selfish reasons I say keep it closed till the 17th and then open it only for European foreign tourists and perhaps an accompanying FFC-member. In return I will not eat any fish or leave any trace I was in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harps Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 North of Hwy 3 is open, complete fire ban still. I don't know if the campgounds are open yet, or just access along the FTR. South of Hwy 3 is CLOSED. I can smell the smoke already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadbrent Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 why would they open them for the long weekends, what a bunch of idiots...ya to appease the masses, but still, it's way too dry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harps Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Alot of political pressure from the city... and it has rained in Calgary and areas north. I don't think many people realize that it can rain in Calgary and not in the Pass. Of course, will SRD- forestry get a better budget next year if the south burns again ?? Hopefully it will snow all weekend, but the forcast calls for high temps... high temps in the day and low night temps will encourage some folks to start a fire... just a small one to keep warm while they drink beer. Of course with the heat... Nothing like a clean cool dip in the secluded N. Sask River... Yes thats at least a dozen vehicles parked IN the river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnF Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 That just doesn't sound right to me. When Mike talked to that SRD guy he said (and the woman I talked to confirmed this) that they do numerous tests on the land etc. to determine the fire hazard and what actions should be taken. They still have had no precip since that time when the BIU was 135 and, even with overnight moisture, cooler night temps or whatever, there's just no way that this number could have come down enough to make it a safe area to be right now. I'd love to know how they arrived at this decision - and it really just can't be from pressure from the city. Imagine this - the forest goes up in flames, hundreds or thousands of people get trapped/injured or, God forbid, killed, and the answer was "well the city pressured us". I don't buy it. And I won't be going down there even if it is open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 North of Hwy 3 is open, complete fire ban still. I don't know if the campgounds are open yet, or just access along the FTR. South of Hwy 3 is CLOSED. I can smell the smoke already... It looks to me like most of the campgrounds on the FTR are closed, or at least the ones I know, which are admittedly few. http://gateway.cd.gov.ab.ca/firebans.aspx Hey Harps, when we gonna tilt that Guinness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryfly Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 As of 3:04 PM today... I called "forestry" in Blairmore. I was told that the closure will be lifted N of Hwy #3 as Harps noted. The Fire Ban website does not reflect this because the minister has yet to sign the order in council. Personally I think it is nutso. Some moron pistonhead or irresponsible camper will start a bloody fire and we'll be on the hook for $28 million -- once again. I can't believe they will allow random camping and use of quads. Crazy. Nuts. Insane. Stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalcal Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I am heading to the Upper Elk on Sunday and if the Oldman area is open I might drop a line in en route to Elkford. No sense spending $20 bucks in BC for a half day or less. I really hope that nothing happens there. From my experience in Wiporous August long, firebans are ignored by random campers. Harps..you are right. They will light fires when it cools down at night. The punishment is minimal. It would be nice if the campgrounds reopened as there is still a lot of fishing to do up there in the fall. Let's all keep our fingers crossed for a safe long weekend!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Can someone explain to me, in small simple words, why they would allow random camping but keep the main campgrounds closed? Wouldn't it be better the other way around?? Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see that it might be easier to police the campgrounds than the random guys, or am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailhead Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I don't agree with the random camping, but seeing as the fire ban is still in place I don't think many people will head out. I know when the ban was put in place there was a mass exodus. As far as rain goes it actually poured in Coleman, starting Monday evening and it rained off and on all night long. The clouds finally broke around noon. Looked like it got soaked pretty good up in the high country too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarki Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 i wonder if the frost and all the condensation on the veg this morning does anything to lessen the risk of fires?? im not even concerned about the fishing, im worried our bow hunt for elk may not happen if we cant get in there. Clive you hear any bulls bugling yet??? i cant wait!!! later M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 It's official, leave your lighters and quads at home. http://albertafirebans.ca/ http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/whatsnew/pdf/firebanarea.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wongrs Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 just wrote an email to albertafirebans.ca to ask for the justification to lifting the closure. just look under the 'contact us' link if you want to follow. i'll post if i get a response. i also inquired as to whether random camping was in full effect while the campgrounds remained closed. hurray for resource management! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wongrs Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 got a response back from Forestry Division of ASRD. -monitoring of fire indices and precipitation (20 mm over last week in spots) lowered the hazard enough to allow reopening the closure. -all campgrounds and parks are now open in the area where the closure has been lifted. enforcement officers will be patrolling fire ban area. officers noted a high level of compliance over the august long weekend over the Kananaskis and Waiporous areas and don't expect too much trouble this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnF Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 got a response back from Forestry Division of ASRD. -monitoring of fire indices and precipitation (20 mm over last week in spots) lowered the hazard enough to allow reopening the closure. -all campgrounds and parks are now open in the area where the closure has been lifted. enforcement officers will be patrolling fire ban area. officers noted a high level of compliance over the august long weekend over the Kananaskis and Waiporous areas and don't expect too much trouble this weekend. A couple of things here just don't make sense. Why isn't the SRD website updated? (http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/) Why, when you talk right to the people at the SRD office in charge of all this, numerous times over the past month, they all say the same thing consistently: 50mm of rain in the area to consider reopening: and then all of a sudden 20MM of rain IN SPOTS is good enough? Sorry....I think someone's got their head up their ass on this one and I really hope it doesn't come back to bite them. This makes no sense to me at all and is totally irresponsible. I won't be going down there for the long weekend. I don't care if they say it's OK...I don't believe it to be a safe situation to be in right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNorther Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 i wonder if the frost and all the condensation on the veg this morning does anything to lessen the risk of fires?? im not even concerned about the fishing, im worried our bow hunt for elk may not happen if we cant get in there. Clive you hear any bulls bugling yet??? i cant wait!!! later M I don't know about down south but the elk aren't bugling N.W. of here.Was in 420 and 326 on saturday,saw 7 cows with no bull to be seen with them and a nice 5x5 bull still in velvet in 420.Couldn't put the extra point on him to make him legal.We're waiting with bated breath about down south.We have a 10 day hunt planned for an elk hunt.Got a couple of ranches to hunt on in 302 & 300 but I'd like to be able to get into 400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhuseby Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 A couple of points as to why the access was lifted. The BUI or build up index reflects the overall severity of a fire that may occur. It heavily reflects the major fuels like standing timber that are slow to ignite but burn intensly once ignited. The FFMC or fine fuel moisture code reflects the dryness of stuff like grass and pine needles that don't burn really hot but are very easy to ignite. Because they are fine, the fine fuels rapidly lose their hazard when rain falls, and it doesn't take long to rapidly reduce the ignition likelihood. Obviously they can dry out again relatively quickly, but by this point in the year overnight dew and frost will have a significant effect in slowing down the rapidity of this drying out. While there are politics involved, remember that they closed the area right before a long weekend. All I can say is that I'm glad that I don't have to make those kind of decisions. No matter which way you go, someone is chewing on your ass. Fire closures, bear closures, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalcal Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I know squat about forests and there potential for fires but in the last month I have heard about BIU's (Burn Intensity Units) and BUI's (Build Up Index) are they perhaps the same or is forest fire potential stats that confusing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhuseby Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 The BUI term is a little older and has probably been replaced by BIU to more accurately reflect what is intended. I was pretty tired when writing last night, and not making as much as much sense as I hoped. What I was trying to point out is that a small amount of rain can quickly reduce the likelihood of a fire starting without reducing the intensity of a fire if one starts. Ignition probability is one of the main concerns in determining forest closures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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