How Honest Should One Be?

[Hawgstoppah]

fishfreak, Hawgstoppah and robert ... I would put presentation at about 40% not 90%. One of my fishing buddies is evidence of the lower rating. You can give him the right flies, tell and show him how to fish them and he still doesn't catch fish. It's kind of like the guy to stands on the bank and repeatedly false casts ... it doesn't matter how beautiful the line in the air looks ... the fish are in the water. If you're not fishing where the fish are feeding, I don't care how beautiful or accurate your presentation is, you're not going to catch fish.

 

I guess your definition of presentation and mine are a bit different. Presentation to me, is "fishing wherre the fish are feeding" exactly. Your friend that stands on the bank false casting is not making good rpesentations then. Presentation to me does not involve line in the air unless your dry fly fishing to a specific trout that is feeding on the surface. Presentation on the Bow is all about mending and getting nymphs down into the feeding lanes. I used to tell folks... that you can cast like sh*t and mend like a god and catch a ton of bow river fish, but the opposite will not net a single one. I've watched the most beautiful casters fail to catch fish because they couldn't figure out how to mend or grasp the concepts.

 

The fish are in feeding lanes, once your there, and know why the fish will be there, either you can guess what fly will be best .... like coming up on a deep pocket after a long shallow fast riffle, flip a rock or two in the shallow riffle section collect some bugs, match whats in it, or try a golden stone kinda thing... it's not rocket science.

 

Now if your rolling them all on a dry, props to yah! I usually only fish to them on hatches, or this time of year on hoppers

[bhurt]

Personally I share all knoweldge (with the exception of locations) with eveyone I meet on the river. My own personal thought is I think it is very selfish not to share knoweldge with others as there had to be some time that someone else shared some type of information with someone.

 

Is it really bad to tell someone what hook you have one, I most of the time generlize what type of fly I use, ie I will say a yellow copper john, I might not add that it has rubber legs, but anything to get the person some secusses is well worth me sharing information. I will even go as far as to explain to the person why that fly will work (In relationship to bugs on the water)

 

I'm am sure everyone on this board has one time or another walked into a flyshop and asked what is working, and for a person not to share the information with other, well you know.......

 

Also how many books have we all read that is diffently someone sharing information with others.

 

Also I find with holding information or giving false information is pretty selfish and elists attitude, do we want a friendly community where people are niot afraid to talk to others and share information or do we want a community full of "I's"

 

I for one would not have meet all my great mentors and friends if it wasn't for them beeing free with information.

[Blaine]

I believe help should always be given but never asked for.

[BRH]

hawstoppah ... yes, I would say our definitions of presentation differ a bit. In my books, presentation is how the bug(s) are set on the water and what happens to the bug(s) once they're in or on the water. Presentation isn't where you're fishing or what bugs you're fishing, only what the fish sees as he's looking at your bug(s). You can replicate or test presentation in a water trough. You can't test water type or bug type in a water trough.

 

I typically use a powerpoint presentation as an example of this. The PP presentation has its own identity, usually a file name. The key players (actors) in the presentation are your flies. How the flies are threaded together, organized to create a story flow, their script and their choreography is the presentation. Where the presentation is hosted, the location the presentation will be shown is the facility (water type). As the audience (trout) and location (water type) changes so too does the key players (flies), their configuration, their script, and their choreography and therefore the presentation changes.

 

Thank you all for "sharing" your thoughts.

 

Where were all of you "sharing" people when I started fly fishing? Oh wait ... that was before there was even a fly shop in Calgary.

[brownonbow]

San juan, followed by a prince followed by a copper john, there problem solved, fish caught.

[Tungsten]

I typically use a powerpoint presentation as an example of this. The PP presentation has its own identity, usually a file name. The key players (actors) in the presentation are your flies. How the flies are threaded together, organized to create a story flow, their script and their choreography is the presentation. Where the presentation is hosted, the location the presentation will be shown is the facility (water type). As the audience (trout) and location (water type) changes so too does the key players (flies), their configuration, their script, and their choreography and therefore the presentation changes.

 

Awesome couldn't have said it any better.

 

 

[jdangler]

I share

[fishfreak]

Hey, who told you my secret combo?!?

 

 

San juan, followed by a prince followed by a copper john, there problem solved, fish caught.

 

[Hawgstoppah]

I typically use a powerpoint presentation as an example of this. The PP presentation has its own identity, usually a file name. The key players (actors) in the presentation are your flies. How the flies are threaded together, organized to create a story flow, their script and their choreography is the presentation. Where the presentation is hosted, the location the presentation will be shown is the facility (water type). As the audience (trout) and location (water type) changes so too does the key players (flies), their configuration, their script, and their choreography and therefore the presentation changes.

 

I think we're using different words to get at the same thing. Your presentation changes depending on location. If your not willing to adjust what's in your presentation, your day will go badly. If your willing to adjust to each situation accordingly, you will have a great day. There are a few presentations I use on the Bow that are suitable for any water type, and work in almost all holding zones. I assume your hot fly and / or technique is similar, and hey... I for one don't blame you for not wanting to share everything. Especially if you guide on it. I don't know if you do or not but if your a guide that has other boats asking what you are using becuase you are far out-producing them, ye might want to cut off your flies at the last bend before MacKinnon's

[mvdaog]

While there are definitely some narcissistic traits evident in what you've said so far, I can't begin to understand what your reasoning is for not helping other people enjoy their day. You've been fishing the river since before there were fly shops in town, so you must be an older guy, and I can't believe that you're still so childish about the sport. What well-adjusted person wouldn't want to make someone else smile and happy for a day? What great fisherman who's caught thousands of fish in his life would still be so selfish about each and every fish so much so that he wouldn't be willing to give a couple up per day to help someone struggling to catch those couple fish? And really, it's quite ridiculous to think that by telling some people as you float by what fly you're using will somehow negatively affect your quota some other day on some other float down the river. Also, check your ego at the door man. You're used to fishing one of the easiest rivers in the world (like most of western canada) and you do it about as well as someone should given as much as you've supposedly fished it. Yea you might catch more than the average joe who fishes a couple times a year, but I doubt you're really blowing away ALL those walk and wade fishermen (because you float the river.) I can't wrap my brain around why you wouldn't want to offer advice and tips to other people, it's something I love having the opportunity to do, and what a great feeling if they go and catch some fish too. Sorry but you're really rubbing me the wrong way the way you talk about yourself and the whole topic of the thread. As you can see you're greatly outnumbered in terms of who wants to help ppl and who doesn't... you should think about that.

[brownonbow]

And to think all that knowledge will go to the grave with him.

[Christofficer]

I will tell whoever what I'm using as long as they're polite. I believe strongly in sharing all of my knowledge, especially if someone is nice enough to walk up to me and say hello. The only type of person I won't share with is if I get a glare, or they act defensive if I walk by them and ask how their day is going. There's lots of rude ppl in calgary these days, the rude ones won't get jack *hit out of me but to all others I am probably the nicest guy you will come across.

 

BTW, don't want to start anything, but being "taught that way" to keep your flies secret from other fisherman is a pathetic excuse. It's complete BS.

[halcyonsancta]

I kind of agree with RussC - it depends a bit on the attitude of the asker and the vibe you get from them.

 

I share everything (admittedly not much in my case!) with my family, friends and their friends. I taught my brother-in-law to fly cast and he's got a mysterious knack for it - in 10 minutes he was better than I was after my first 5 years, he really "has it". This kind of giving is kind of satisfying in a way that's good and kind of un-knowable beforehand.

 

I have been the recipient of so much expertise over the years that I feel obligated to share. It's part of the character aspect I guess.

 

We fish ethically, go barbless, buy licenses, catch and release and generally behave in a principalled manner - courtesy to one's fellow enthusiasts is surely an extension of this?

 

 

[boot]

I agree with the sharing. There's too many positive benefits from sharing that outweigh the negatives. I mean, yes you can try and rationalize with examples of one bad angler bonking a fish, but then you also have to realize that sharing information may help to create an an ambassador for the sport, who becomes an active and contributing member of the community. By helping one person, you may never know the positive ripple effect that you've created.

 

Also, it's so easy to forget that we've all received help along the way. I mean someone must have helped you by sharing. Even if it's the guy selling you the rod or a book or an article or word of mouth or a friend or youtube... someone was sharing information and you received it. Which reminds me.... I should thank rickr for his primer on nymphing. I'm still terrible at nymphing, but I credit rickr for getting me into my first fish on the Bow. I've never met rickr, but he took the time to share his nymphing info and I used it to catch a few fish. Hopefully as I get better and learn more, I'll be able to pass what I've learned to other people (not just to friends and family, but to strangers as well).

 

Cheers.

 

[BRH]

Sorry but you're really rubbing me the wrong way the way you talk about yourself and the whole topic of the thread. As you can see you're greatly outnumbered in terms of who wants to help ppl and who doesn't... you should think about that.

 

Me rubbing people the wrong way is nothing new. I'm a black and white kind of guy. Most people are shades of gray (or some other colour) and don't know how to deal with me.

 

It is usually a good rule of thumb to not make assumptions about someone you don't know and have no idea about. The beauty of a forum like this and the anonymity it affords allows all contributors to only divulge as much or little as they individually choose.

[BRH]

And to think all that knowledge will go to the grave with him.

 

This Sunday I will have another pair of beginners in my boat. One is eleven, the other thirteen. Their casting isn't that great yet, we've been working on it, but I think they can handle the rod well enough now to deal with Bow River trout. In terms of people I've introduced to fly fishing ... I think that's number 47 and 48 this year ... although I've kind of lost track, it could be more.

 

mvdaog ... from your critical and judgemental comments I must be lagging way behind you in the number of people you've introduced to fly fishing this year. I guess I'll have to pick up my socks.

[Swede]

Well for me not only will I tell you I'll gladly reach into my flybox and give you a few flys. Plus if I'm in a really good mood I'll give you my fishing spot and move on.

[Giovanne]

This Sunday I will have another pair of beginners in my boat. One is eleven, the other thirteen. Their casting isn't that great yet, we've been working on it, but I think they can handle the rod well enough now to deal with Bow River trout. In terms of people I've introduced to fly fishing ... I think that's number 47 and 48 this year ... although I've kind of lost track, it could be more.

 

mvdaog ... from your critical and judgemental comments I must be lagging way behind you in the number of people you've introduced to fly fishing this year. I guess I'll have to pick up my socks.

 

With introducing near 50 beginner flyfishers to the sport, I have to come to the conclusion you are a guide?

[bhurt]

I would like to point out that not all guides are jackass, I know a few that will shout out from their boat across the river to give someone a pointer or to tell them what is working.

 

This thing about beeing secert and not saying anything to anyone really burns me as this is what makes up an "ELITIST"

 

Also as I understand this forum was created to share information with everyone and to build a friendly community, I suggest to everyone that doesn't agree with those two simple concepts to not come back to this forum as it will only make you mad and give you headachs, but hey who am I, I'm a nobody so just ignore me.

[Flyfisher]

If someone I meet asks what I'm using I'll most always show them. Some of the most gratifying and memorable aspects of fly fishing have been centered around sharing and receiving. Been on both sides of it.

 

Let fly fishing be a metaphor for good living...

[BRH]

With introducing near 50 beginner flyfishers to the sport, I have to come to the conclusion you are a guide?

 

It is usually prudent not to make assumptions about someone you don't know and know nothing about.

[bhurt]

It is usually prudent not to make assumptions about someone you don't know and know nothing about.

But wait arn't you making assumptions about other people and that is why you don't want to share information with that said person cause your afraid they "MIGHT" destroy you run.

 

Maybe you should watch what you are saying......

[Giovanne]

It is usually prudent not to make assumptions about someone you don't know and know nothing about.

 

Well good for you then IF you are not a guide and can chalk up your near 50 newbies this year.

 

I don't get out 50 times a year, let alone take 50 people out that have never flyfished, however I do take out a few every season that have never cast a fly rod.

 

Oh ya- lighten up a bit, my assumption is one that many would make, and probably did with your claim. You are an anonymous user on the internet, I just made a guess based on your unsubstantiated claim..

[Giovanne]

With introducing near 50 beginner flyfishers to the sport, I have to come to the conclusion you are a guide?

 

 

It is usually prudent not to make assumptions about someone you don't know and know nothing about.

 

http://flyfishcalgary.com/board/index.php?...mp;#entry101764

Actually the problem for the original poster and anyone else who thinks the price of a walk and wade guided trip for one person is excessive is ... I have a choice ... take one guy on a walk and wade for $300 or $350 or whatever ... or ... one or two guys on a float for $500. Essentially, for those guides who have a full schedule, it's $300 for a day of work or $500. I don't care if the trip is for one or two guys, a float or a walk and wade ... the price is $500. I'm not going to book a one person walk and wader for anything less because I have a full slate of bookings and don't have to sell my services for less to fill empty days ... I don't have any. If you want to book my services for a day of fishing at my going rate, great! If you don't want to book my services for a day of fishing at my going rate, that's fine too because I'll be booked with someone else. There's no waiting around hoping someone will book a trip with me. Most of the time it's a juggling act fitting everyone in.

 

Looking back I guess what I assumed was true. Hey no biggie at all, but you certainly cast the first stone, for what and why I have no idea? Guides are a great conduit to get new people into the sport through corporate trips and such.

 

Lets get back to reality, unless you are retired and your mission is to introduce people to flyfishing, guiding would be the only way to do it with 50 people in a season- err..47. And to keep track, 47? the only way would be to look back through your booking records and count.

 

Oh and to get things back on track; I take out newbies, talk to fellow fishermen and offer all I know..

[kungfool]

Great topic thus far.

 

Could all of you kind sharing peeps please PM me your favorite fishing waters and access points PLEASE? Common I said please and I truly want to learn exactly where you all like to fish!