Use The Car Wash!

[firefrog]

Well

It's that time of year again (mind you, there's no season for idiots). My neighbors seem to think it's OK to wash their car in the street or back alley.

 

I've done this with three different neighbors. Once again, I tried to 'inform and educate'. I start off with a hello and ask if they're using soap or cleaner, then ask why. I tell them that the water goes into the storm sewer and into the river without treatment. The response usually starts off like 'oh, it's just a little bit......no harm', or 'it's sinking into the ground; it's OK'. I assert that it's not OK and it's against the law. Then they get belligerent. I warn them that I'll report them next time and there's bad feelings about.

 

As far as I can see, it's a complete waste of time. I hate to just go out there with a camera, but that's the only thing that will work.

 

I can't figure it. They know it's wrong. This guy had just purchased a new pressure washer. Probably thought he'd save a bundle and wash his own car. ????? I'd say he paid about $100 for it. I reckon that by the time that washer breaks down, he could have spent the same amount of money and went to the car wash - where the wastewater is disposed properly.

 

Dear Abby: why is it so hard for some people to comply?

 

[ladystrange]

dear green peace/PETA lover

 

 

most people done think the rules apply to the other guy, not them. while it is commendable that you want to help save the planet and make a better life for all the little fishies out there, perhaps it is the way you deliver the information with immediate confrontation. rather than coming off as the neighbourhood busy-body with nothing better to do but tell people how to use the water they are paying for and then threaten them with bylaw officers and fines, maybe you could do some research on eco-friendly bio-degradible products that are fish friendly while accomplishing the mission of keeping the family stationwagon clean.

 

make up a flyer of "did you knows?" educate your target and influence with information. get a bunch of sample bottles of an acceptable cleaning product and hand them out. people like free stuff and inteligent conversation.

 

people will respond a whole lot better to, hey i noticed you washing your car the other day, did you know that regular detergent is harmful to the environment, causes an increase in plant life in our river systems which sucks the oxygen from the water and kills fish, which could then wash up on the shores and create a rotting mess and cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars to clean up that the tax payers would have to pay for and since there is no budget for such an event the city would have to raise property taxes? here is a bottle of the stuff i use and an info sheet on where strom drain and ground water go...

 

 

obviously i was playing off the dear abby thing. but in all seriousness, i had a parking nazi that lived across the street, she didnt like the fact that i parked on her side of the street because it blocked the sun from her flower bed. bylaw says i have 72 hours before i have to move my car, which i did every day anyway because i had to go to work. if she had come to me and asked nicely not to park in front of her house and gave a reasonable explanation, i would have gladly not parked there. but since she came over like a ranting lunitic, left notes on the windsheild, called bylaw to make sure i was not parked too close to the T intersection and was generally an all around a$$hat, busy-body, useless @#$%% so 'n so, i went out of my way to park both of my cars in front of her house, leaving my drive way free, specifically because i could, nothing that bylaw could do about it. it ended when she moved. WHY??? because i could, just to irritate her.

 

my point is, although you would be well within your rights to call bylaw and report the washing of cars with chemicals etc and i would certainly support you, if you think about it a little and put yourself in the other guy's shoes for a moment, what would you think...

 

you are outside enjoying a nice warm spring day and washing your car, you have no idea that washing you car is illegal and that the soap you are using is harmful. along comes the neighbour... hey buddy, whatcha using to wash your car with??? first thought is, what's it to you and who the hell are you? you answer - my wife's dish soap. neighbour says - well that stuff has all sorts of chemicals in it and it seeps in to the drainage system and ground water and it goes in to the river and damages fish and the environment and... and... and... at some point you stop listening to the greenpeacer/peta lover and go back to washing your car. now greenpeacer/peta lover is irritated because you didnt listen to him and blew him off with basically a Please F!$#$ OFF , so now buddy has his nickers in a knot and thinks, well i'll show you, you little arrogant ignoramus and he calls over to you. And what you are doing is illegal so i'm going to call city bylaw on you, and they are going to come out here and give you a fine and everytime i see you washing your car with that stuff i'm going to call bylaw and it's going to cost you a lot of money...

 

at this point, really it is tantimount to, i'm going to tell your mommy on you. so what, you call 311 on a saturday, you might get the odd guy who is bored and will come out, by this time the guy has probably finished washing his car and hosed all the suds away. so what's left... water stains on the pavement, oculd have been from watering the weeds in the back alley. so how do you prove that he was washing is car? yeah, i guess you could waste your time and climb the tree down the street and sit in wait like some crazy stalker chick trying to get a glimps of her ex with his new GF and take vidoes of the guy washing his car and then call bylaw. but why bother when there are so many other more passive ways of acomplishing your mission without being THAT GUY. and the first time you call, you might get a well done, thanks for the help speech, but eventually you will have talked to every 311 employee and the next time you call, you get put on hold and she says to her co-worker, hey guess what, it's that crazy water nazi again...

 

do you really want to be THAT GUY??? the guy to who complains about the kind of soap you use to wash your car and sits in the tree down the street just to get video of it because you have nothing better to do with your days... how sad is that to be THAT GUY???

[Guest frypan]

were does the water from the car wash go ?

[bhurt]

Just to let people know that alot of our city storm drains have been removed, if you have not seen yet the tailing/setelment pounds they are digging in fish creek park is where alot of these water is ggoing to then it is pumped to the treatment planet and then is treated and put back into the river.

 

I also have a client that owns one of the largest carwashes in town and I asked him were it goes and all he could say is, where all water goes, into the sewers.

 

Also I guess we can no longer water our lawns cause how many of us uses fertilizer............

[mvdaog]

dear green peace/PETA lover

 

 

most people done think the rules apply to the other guy, not them. while it is commendable that you want to help save the planet and make a better life for all the little fishies out there, perhaps it is the way you deliver the information with immediate confrontation. rather than coming off as the neighbourhood busy-body with nothing better to do but tell people how to use the water they are paying for and then threaten them with bylaw officers and fines, maybe you could do some research on eco-friendly bio-degradible products that are fish friendly while accomplishing the mission of keeping the family stationwagon clean.

 

make up a flyer of "did you knows?" educate your target and influence with information. get a bunch of sample bottles of an acceptable cleaning product and hand them out. people like free stuff and inteligent conversation.

 

people will respond a whole lot better to, hey i noticed you washing your car the other day, did you know that regular detergent is harmful to the environment, causes an increase in plant life in our river systems which sucks the oxygen from the water and kills fish, which could then wash up on the shores and create a rotting mess and cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars to clean up that the tax payers would have to pay for and since there is no budget for such an event the city would have to raise property taxes? here is a bottle of the stuff i use and an info sheet on where strom drain and ground water go...

 

 

obviously i was playing off the dear abby thing. but in all seriousness, i had a parking nazi that lived across the street, she didnt like the fact that i parked on her side of the street because it blocked the sun from her flower bed. bylaw says i have 72 hours before i have to move my car, which i did every day anyway because i had to go to work. if she had come to me and asked nicely not to park in front of her house and gave a reasonable explanation, i would have gladly not parked there. but since she came over like a ranting lunitic, left notes on the windsheild, called bylaw to make sure i was not parked too close to the T intersection and was generally an all around a$$hat, busy-body, useless @#$%% so 'n so, i went out of my way to park both of my cars in front of her house, leaving my drive way free, specifically because i could, nothing that bylaw could do about it. it ended when she moved. WHY??? because i could, just to irritate her.

 

my point is, although you would be well within your rights to call bylaw and report the washing of cars with chemicals etc and i would certainly support you, if you think about it a little and put yourself in the other guy's shoes for a moment, what would you think...

 

you are outside enjoying a nice warm spring day and washing your car, you have no idea that washing you car is illegal and that the soap you are using is harmful. along comes the neighbour... hey buddy, whatcha using to wash your car with??? first thought is, what's it to you and who the hell are you? you answer - my wife's dish soap. neighbour says - well that stuff has all sorts of chemicals in it and it seeps in to the drainage system and ground water and it goes in to the river and damages fish and the environment and... and... and... at some point you stop listening to the greenpeacer/peta lover and go back to washing your car. now greenpeacer/peta lover is irritated because you didnt listen to him and blew him off with basically a Please F!$#$ OFF , so now buddy has his nickers in a knot and thinks, well i'll show you, you little arrogant ignoramus and he calls over to you. And what you are doing is illegal so i'm going to call city bylaw on you, and they are going to come out here and give you a fine and everytime i see you washing your car with that stuff i'm going to call bylaw and it's going to cost you a lot of money...

 

at this point, really it is tantimount to, i'm going to tell your mommy on you. so what, you call 311 on a saturday, you might get the odd guy who is bored and will come out, by this time the guy has probably finished washing his car and hosed all the suds away. so what's left... water stains on the pavement, oculd have been from watering the weeds in the back alley. so how do you prove that he was washing is car? yeah, i guess you could waste your time and climb the tree down the street and sit in wait like some crazy stalker chick trying to get a glimps of her ex with his new GF and take vidoes of the guy washing his car and then call bylaw. but why bother when there are so many other more passive ways of acomplishing your mission without being THAT GUY. and the first time you call, you might get a well done, thanks for the help speech, but eventually you will have talked to every 311 employee and the next time you call, you get put on hold and she says to her co-worker, hey guess what, it's that crazy water nazi again...

 

do you really want to be THAT GUY??? the guy to who complains about the kind of soap you use to wash your car and sits in the tree down the street just to get video of it because you have nothing better to do with your days... how sad is that to be THAT GUY???

 

 

Dear environmental rapist/oil-sand zealot,

 

The guy said he tried to inform and educate first off. His neighbors didn't want to hear anything about it and they got pissed when they were told its not legal. I'd try to call em in after trying to be nice first as well. I don't want that sh** in my environment or the rivers.

 

Who the hell are you? Why are you being such a bitch? There's nothing sad about this guys life and there's nothing to suggest anything about his political beliefs or organizations he supports. You really want to be THAT PERSON? The one who goes out of their way to piss people off instead of just trying to make people happy? I swear you just bragged about pissing someone off on purpose, was it a little old lady working on her garden?. I hope to god that most albertans aren't as ignorant and red-neck evil as you. I'm glad that most the albertans I've met have been really nice and great people. Just totally lost any respect I could have had for someone on a message board online.

 

[bhurt]

Dear environmental rapist/oil-sand zealot,

 

The guy said he tried to inform and educate first off. His neighbors didn't want to hear anything about it and they got pissed when they were told its not legal. I'd try to call em in after trying to be nice first as well. I don't want that sh** in my environment or the rivers.

 

Who the hell are you? Why are you being such a bitch? There's nothing sad about this guys life and there's nothing to suggest anything about his political beliefs or organizations he supports. You really want to be THAT PERSON? The one who goes out of their way to piss people off instead of just trying to make people happy? I swear you just bragged about pissing someone off on purpose, was it a little old lady working on her garden?. I hope to god that most albertans aren't as ignorant and red-neck evil as you. I'm glad that most the albertans I've met have been really nice and great people. Just totally lost any respect I could have had for someone on a message board online.

I think you need to reread her post, I have highlighted three things for you to read and think about

 

most people done think the rules apply to the other guy, not them. while it is commendable that you want to help save the planet and make a better life for all the little fishies out there, perhaps it is the way you deliver the information with immediate confrontation. rather than coming off as the neighbourhood busy-body with nothing better to do but tell people how to use the water they are paying for and then threaten them with bylaw officers and fines, maybe you could do some research on eco-friendly bio-degradible products that are fish friendly while accomplishing the mission of keeping the family stationwagon clean.

 

As I see it there really was nothing wrong with what she said, maybe its just me and I let it roll off my shoulders but I think she was tring to EDUCATE the original poster in a better way to help him educate this person, and I didn't see her bashing him what so ever.

[ladystrange]

Dear environmental rapist/oil-sand zealot,

 

The guy said he tried to inform and educate first off. His neighbors didn't want to hear anything about it and they got pissed when they were told its not legal. I'd try to call em in after trying to be nice first as well. I don't want that sh** in my environment or the rivers.

 

Who the hell are you? Why are you being such a bitch? There's nothing sad about this guys life and there's nothing to suggest anything about his political beliefs or organizations he supports. You really want to be THAT PERSON? The one who goes out of their way to piss people off instead of just trying to make people happy? I swear you just bragged about pissing someone off on purpose, was it a little old lady working on her garden?. I hope to god that most albertans aren't as ignorant and red-neck evil as you. I'm glad that most the albertans I've met have been really nice and great people. Just totally lost any respect I could have had for someone on a message board online.

 

 

i guess i need to dumb this down so that some people understand...

 

fire frog used the dear abby referrence so i answered using the dear abby standard response. see Bhurt's response where he highlights the satirical yet supportive manner in which i agreed with fire frog attempt to educate his moronic neighbour and at the same time poke fun at the way he illustrated his description of the message delivery

 

i then went on to say

 

my point is, although you would be well within your rights to call bylaw and report the washing of cars with chemicals etc and i would certainly support you, if you think about it a little and put yourself in the other guy's shoes for a moment, what would you think...

 

 

oh look - to the skim reader who perhaps missed where i said - I SUPPORT YOU. (i capitalized it so, in your blindness, you might not miss it the second time around)

 

i then went on to show another point of view as fire frog being the guy washing his car but you could subsititue anything or any situation where some person comes up to you and makes a moronic statement... in a manner that could be considered as an attack

 

 

and since you didnt understand it the first time... the 'sad' part would be every one thinking that the guy who means perfectly well and passionately about a cause - any cause but who goes about it in a manner where no one understands the what and how and he ends up being not taken seriously and looked upon as the crazy guy who rants about how you use water but since all they hear is blah, blah, blah, water, blah, illegal, blah, blah, i'm going to tell on you, blah,., blah, blah they miss the importance of his message

 

i was pointing out general human behaviour when confronted in a manner that is COULD be construed as 'in a threatening' manner. which i am sure is NOT what Fire Frog intends - although it cannot speak directly to fire frog's intentions other than statements the first post, where the question is posed, why can't people comply? because we are selfish and think that nothing we do can affect anything and we are special, it's the OTHER guy's fault...

 

and the little old lady working on her garden, i will clarify for you.

 

picture any residential street in a new neighbourhood in Calgary, there is a main street with several off shoots of T intersection with cul de sacs. because of the 6-8ft between houses and also because of no back allyes, all the drive ways were in the front, thus not a lot of street parking.

 

my husband had a work truck, a project truck, his personal truck and my truck. the old lady as you assumed was probably late 30s, maybe pushing 42. the garden, was city property easement space NOT on her property but stretched down the lenght of her fence and she had the corner lot. she had a parking area in her alley. she owned 1 car that was parked in behind house on her property.

 

do you get the visual here before i move on? she has no reason to park on the side of her house facing the main street, she is planting on city property that faces the main street and because she has the corner lot on a T intersection with the only street parking available because all the driveways on the main street were so close together, there was no where to park.

 

the project truck was in the garage in various states of being worked on. my husband had a new truck and did not want to park on the street so he had the drive way. the work truck was an old beater and the one i was driving at the time was not much better so we parked across the street. on city property where the general public has every right to park as long as it is moved every 72 hours.

 

i guess me parking my truck there was fine for the first year we lived there. when my husband got the work truck with his new job that is when the lady starting leaving messages on windshield - which i mentioned. such as but not limited to - move this POS, you cant park here, i'll call the city, on and on etc... one day i was out side and she came running outside and yelled across the street, arms flailing... if you dont move this junker i'll have it towed it is shading my flowers. to which is responded. it is my husband's work truck, i will let him know. to which she said something along the lines of, that's not good enough come move your #$% truck now!!! i went in the house. i proceeded to print off a copy of the court of queens bench parking bylaws and went over to her house and gave them to her. i then told her there was no where else to park, and there is nothing in the bylaw that says we cannot park there. i wont bore you with the rest, however, she called the fire department up to say that the truck was leaking fluids. which it wasnt, they told her that and then told her not to waste their time. she continued to spend the entire summer everytime we came or went screaming out a window, off the patio, from her yard about how we should not be parking in HER parking are in case she felt like parking there. and then she would call bylaw daily to measure how far i was parked from the T intersection. hence the reason WHY i kept parking there. at some point there are people so ignorant, there is nothing else to do with them

 

i would also like to add the 'garden' was north facing with a fence behind it. it didnt get any sun regardless of whether or not i parked there. and i also said before, IF she had approached me and said, hey look, i would prefer that you didnt park your work truck there, in a nice calm manner in which we could have had a civil conversation and discussed options and alternatives, i would have gladly tried to work something out.

 

 

the moral of the story was that if you come off like the crazy lunitic, no one will take you seriously, regardless of the purity of your statement or mission

 

i was quite frankly just teasing fire frog and offering one of many possible solutions in altering his approach and delivery so that he CAN make a difference to our watershed.

 

now, perhaps you would like to go back and realize the error of your ways and apologize for calling me a bitch

[firefrog]

Hi

Good points LS. You'd make a fine neighbor.

 

Just for the record, I'm quite laid back and tolerant...........until someone crosses the line (and we all draw that line in different places). I'm also not confrontational.

 

So now folks are saying 'Yeah, right. So why did you approach that person in the first place?' Answer: because I saw something that COULD have been stopped immediately. I tried and failed. I fully understand that some people would think of me as a nazi. My goal was just short-term.

 

Yep, the car wash water goes into the sanitary sewer. Some of the better car washes actually recycle some of the water and separate it on-site. I work in water treatment. Our wastewater plants handle such waste quite well. The water exiting the plants is clean. There is no reason to bypass this route.

Cheers.

[ladystrange]

Thank you FF, i do believe that you are a relaxed person and just want to do your part to pay it forward. i didnt think you were being a water nazi. but because it seemed by your post that you had tried and failed on a few occations with different people, i thought i would go to the extreme opposite side to play devils advocate and show that even the most innocent and innocuous manners of passing on important information can be taken poorly when it seems like some one tells another that we are doing something wrong and to give another point of view.

 

 

and MVDAOG, you might want to re-read the Code of Conduct. here i copied the important part for your

 

Please treat all other community participants with respect and do not use FlyFishCalgary.com forum features to threaten, harass, stalk, or abuse other users. The purpose of our communities is to exchange information and opinions on Fly-fishing and Fly Tying, and provide an open forum for users of all ages. Please avoid personal attacks, slurs, trolling and profanity in your interactions

[bhurt]

Please treat all other community participants with respect and do not use FlyFishCalgary.com forum features to threaten, harass, stalk, or abuse other users.

 

 

But I like to stalk people....

[ladystrange]

i know a perfectly good tree you can sit in... i can even lend you my camera

[bhurt]

i know a perfectly good tree you can sit in... i can even lend you my camera

Drooooooooling...........

 

 

Here is one of my first stalking photo's

 

 

 

 

 

P.S

 

Just incase no one knows me and ladystrange are just joking around

[zed]

i hope that bitch that lived across the street from ladystrange reads this post...

[Guest frypan]

wow

 

now ad this to the list - john q public washing his car in the back lane is now killing the fish.

 

my question " where does the car wash water go" was because it goes in the same place- the sewer . difference is the local drive thru wash uses much harsher chemical than the church carwash fundraser does.

 

 

 

random camping is wrecking the west country and now washint the car is killing the river- most of you must work for oil companys and car washes- hah. nuthin like keeping the focus off the real problems

[mvdaog]

I totally caught on to your passive aggressiveness actually. I did notice that you pretended to agree with his means, but not his methods. I did notice that not all of your post was bitchy. But parts of it were, especially calling him a greenpeace/peta lover, and then later in your imaginary scenario making greenpeace/peta lover sound like a lunatic, and then also

"do you really want to be THAT GUY??? the guy to who complains about the kind of soap you use to wash your car and sits in the tree down the street just to get video of it because you have nothing better to do with your days... how sad is that to be THAT GUY???"

 

This guy said nothing in his post to be compared to THAT GUY in your imaginary scenario. Don't put him down like that, and I dont care if he was offended by it or not, I was. that's a personal attack. And I'm glad you've tried to explain/defend yourself.

 

I still don't think its reasonable to buy cleaning supplies for your neighbors to wash their car with or to print off brochures for them to read. Approaching them in a nice way about it should be enough, if they're dicks about it then I'd call in too. Not print off information booklets and buy samples for them.

 

And you and your husband own 4 trucks??? that's hilarious, in a sad way. Oh alberta.....

 

 

[ladystrange]

let's try this again... i'm not defending myself but i am explaining for those that did not understand and since there still seems to be some grey area that the grey matter didnt pick up on, we'll do it again

 

ok?

 

i portrayed fire frog to be the person washing the car... therefore, not putting him down (Fire Frog mentioned the only way would be to use a camera). so i dont know why you are offended. he was the guy washing his car and minding his own business. again, you can insert any situation you want... where someone comes up to you completely unsolicited and starts asking questions about what you are doing and then proceeds to tell you that you are wrong. even more so, that what you are doing is illegal. now i dont know if he happens to keep a copy of the bylaws on his person to back up the information, which really doesnt matter and is completely irrelevant. the point is that most people dont like being told by relative strangers that they are doing something wrong even if you do have the legal documents to support what you say. just watch COPS or judge judy

 

my suggestion of info and providing soap samples was A) just one method, not litteral and C) metaphoric for anything that could be done differently from what he was already doing

 

in any situation, depending on how the question are asked or info delivered they can be completely normal and productive or come off as completely creepy or even offensive. offended people tend to lash out in defence

 

for example, you are minding you own business and someone comes up to you and starts going on about religion, one situation - a JW knocks on the door, they are dressed in a suit and we pretty much know what is to be expected, we thank them for dropping by, take the little book and tell them we arent interested, unless you are interested and then the conversation is generally welcome. they have a message... to them it is very important to share the message. in another situation, some random person on the street approches and starts preaching about God and religion and reads from the bible (actual person in vancouver BTW) but he is unkempt, maybe hasnt had a shower in while. most people are going to think the guy is crazy and want to get the hell out of there ASAP. why??? because the random person preaching made the person uncomfortable. so what is the difference? the difference is the delivery and perception. both messages are equally important to both people, maybe not so important to the person receiving the message. people tend to tolerate the JW and will even listen yet they shut down and are not willing to accept what they do not understand

 

now back to the previous situation. i turned the situation around to be seen from the point of view of the person receiving the information. i wasnt "pretending" to agree with anything. nor did i disagree with the method. i completely agree with his message. the reason of playing devils advocate is to provide a point of view not always thought about. he said he was having trouble with the acceptance of message. i dont know what his method of delivery is. all i know is that in general most people become completely irrational when they are told they are doing something wrong.

 

i wasnt comparing him to THAT GUY, it was an exageration of how other people perceive the people who are passionate about thier beliefs when they do not share the same ideal. the hyperboli was to emphaize the point. obviously this was misunderstood and again, since the Dear Abby format was used as a joke... in case you have never read a Dear Abby colum, she uses pen names either ones used by the writer or she makes one up using their situation. i used the format and was joking back.

 

as for calling because the guy was being a jerk?? my point was that maybe the guy wasnt being a jerk, maybe he didnt understand the message because he misunderstood the because it is reasonable that they were annoyed by the interruption, then was asked questions and eventually told they were doing something wrong and perhaps the person missed the point due to a lack of understanding. but hey fill your boots if you want to call. car washing guy is right up there with a dog barking to the city and wont make a difference, just annoy your neighbour. i'm not saying they city wont respond because they will but it wont be on the top of the list of things to do. they will get to it if and when they can. how long does it take to wash a car? 20 minutes give or take. do you really think that bylaw enforcers dont have something better to do than wait for someone to call about a car washing complaint? so you need proof, how else but to record it, but then someone could be perceived as having nothing else to do or worse yet irrational and unpredictable. if you re-read Fire Frog, he even says it is a waste of time and the only way would be to get a camera and record it. thus me throwing in why it would not be a good idea. it was a trip to far fetched and rediculous to make a point. which Fire Frog understood.

 

 

no, we did not OWN 4 trucks. i had one and he had one. he had a company truck that he had to take home each night but was not allowed to use it for personal use. he was a construction foreman and was expected to drive all over the city supervising jobs and did not go to the main office and shop site every morning. the project truck was an off road vehicle that he and his friend were working on. the friend actually owned it but we had the garage.

 

i tried living in calgary and taking transit from one side of the city to the other for work everyday. it just didnt happen in less than 2 hours each way. i tried for 2 years until i just got burnt out being on the bus and train for at least 4 hours a day to 30 km

 

And i am originally from West Vancouver, not Alberta, so you can stop the slagging of Alberta.

 

BTW, you still didn't apologize.

 

 

and just to head off another conversation about 'street preacher'. he was a real person who preached on the street just off of Granville and Robson. i spent many days and hours on end listening to him, talking to him and watching how people reacted to him. people did all sorts of awful things and reacted in all sorts of ways because they didnt take the time to talk to him or understand him. people live in their own little bubble, all we can do to make a difference is understand this and change the way we deliver the message. fact of life is that people fear what they do not understand and react adverse to rational behaviour expected from an adult

 

i grew up near a Hall and had the JW every sunday. we would invite them in, discuss their literature and their message. my actual religion is none of your business, all you need to know is that it is different.

 

 

the defintion of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting to get a different result.

 

so if you already know from past experience that a calm discussion about car washing and the environment, where the water goes and what it's effects are, why would you continue to atempt the same manner delivery, expect a different result, which doesnt happen, then become a jerk yourself when you get frustrated that the person doesnt understand you and you resort to calling bylaw? why perpetuate the misunderstanding?

 

why not consider a different method? if someone is that passionate about a cause, the expense of a few flyers and a sample bottle of free product to support your cause, then the minor expense is not a sacrifice to change the ideology of the target person(s) it is just another tool. why would it not be reasonable? or another method, like host a neighbour hood meeting and invite a bylaw enforcer to discuss things that most of us never think about, such as car washing or how long you can leave your car parked?

 

 

 

Frypan, i'm not sure if you are being sarcastic about the random camping ruining the west or just making a generalized statement. i'm not exactly sure what it or car washing has to do with working for an oil company. please explain.

[jonn]

"in a sad way. Oh alberta..... "

 

Where are you from?

[trailhead]

Just to let people know that alot of our city storm drains have been removed, if you have not seen yet the tailing/setelment pounds they are digging in fish creek park is where alot of these water is ggoing to then it is pumped to the treatment planet and then is treated and put back into the river.

 

Actually those ponds are to control flooding, the water does sit in the ponds and the heavy bits ie tree limbs etc stay behing while the water flows into the river. They've been building them all over the city due to the 100 year floods we keep having every few years. There's one at the end of my street and I talked to the storm sewer people with the city just to get the straight facts on it.

 

[LynnF]

FYI....there is no biodegradeable or environmentally friendly detergent on the market that would be allowed or legal - this according to City of Calgary (311). You aren't even supposed to be washing dirt off your car in the driveway because all the mud and oil and stuff from your vehicle/driveway winds up in the sewer (this again according to the City). I know because I called - and the woman on the other end took particular pleasure in telling me everything I was not allowed to do in the privacy of my private driveway. I called because I got sick of watching my neighbour wash his car in his driveway with soap while I spend $7 at the carwash, abiding by the law. So I put a letter in his mailbox. A nicely worded "I've witnessed you do this and the next time I'm calling 311 and the fine can be upwards of $2,500". He stopped. Had he not, I would have called. I'm not a busybody or a bitch, but the law is the law and this one is in place for a reason.

 

PS Tiana - I think you should write an advice column.

[Pipestoneflyguy]

"And you and your husband own 4 trucks??? that's hilarious, in a sad way. Oh alberta..... "

 

That's kind of a cheap shot don't ya think - Name me a province that doesn't have motorsport enthusiasts or collectors within it's midst. No Matter how many vehicles a person owns, they can only drive one of them at a time !

 

All 4 of my vehicles are engineered and built to a specific application and purpose - can all the masses cruising walmart in their oversized V8 equiped SUV's hauling two bags of grocieries and two kids, say the same thing, not likely

[Harps]

Completely ignoring most of this thread....

 

 

Frypan, you asked where the water goes.

There are 2 types of drains on city streets...

 

1. one that goes to the sewer and evetually to the waste water treatment plant.

 

2. the other is a storm drain (most common). The water in these may run to a storm water management pond (new areas) or more likely it will go through a pipe straight to the river. A few storm water drains will have sediment traps or hydrocarbon "vortexes" to filter out some pollutants.

 

Soaps well: http://www.lenntech.com/aquatic/detergents.htm and there are issues with the oils and greases from cars and the salts too.

 

 

[yak]

i guess i need to dumb this down so that some people understand...

 

fire frog used the dear abby referrence so i answered using the dear abby standard response. see Bhurt's response where he highlights the satirical yet supportive manner in which i agreed with fire frog attempt to educate his moronic neighbour and at the same time poke fun at the way he illustrated his description of the message delivery

 

i then went on to say

 

my point is, although you would be well within your rights to call bylaw and report the washing of cars with chemicals etc and i would certainly support you, if you think about it a little and put yourself in the other guy's shoes for a moment, what would you think...

 

 

oh look - to the skim reader who perhaps missed where i said - I SUPPORT YOU. (i capitalized it so, in your blindness, you might not miss it the second time around)

 

i then went on to show another point of view as fire frog being the guy washing his car but you could subsititue anything or any situation where some person comes up to you and makes a moronic statement... in a manner that could be considered as an attack

 

 

and since you didnt understand it the first time... the 'sad' part would be every one thinking that the guy who means perfectly well and passionately about a cause - any cause but who goes about it in a manner where no one understands the what and how and he ends up being not taken seriously and looked upon as the crazy guy who rants about how you use water but since all they hear is blah, blah, blah, water, blah, illegal, blah, blah, i'm going to tell on you, blah,., blah, blah they miss the importance of his message

 

i was pointing out general human behaviour when confronted in a manner that is COULD be construed as 'in a threatening' manner. which i am sure is NOT what Fire Frog intends - although it cannot speak directly to fire frog's intentions other than statements the first post, where the question is posed, why can't people comply? because we are selfish and think that nothing we do can affect anything and we are special, it's the OTHER guy's fault...

 

and the little old lady working on her garden, i will clarify for you.

 

picture any residential street in a new neighbourhood in Calgary, there is a main street with several off shoots of T intersection with cul de sacs. because of the 6-8ft between houses and also because of no back allyes, all the drive ways were in the front, thus not a lot of street parking.

 

my husband had a work truck, a project truck, his personal truck and my truck. the old lady as you assumed was probably late 30s, maybe pushing 42. the garden, was city property easement space NOT on her property but stretched down the lenght of her fence and she had the corner lot. she had a parking area in her alley. she owned 1 car that was parked in behind house on her property.

 

do you get the visual here before i move on? she has no reason to park on the side of her house facing the main street, she is planting on city property that faces the main street and because she has the corner lot on a T intersection with the only street parking available because all the driveways on the main street were so close together, there was no where to park.

 

the project truck was in the garage in various states of being worked on. my husband had a new truck and did not want to park on the street so he had the drive way. the work truck was an old beater and the one i was driving at the time was not much better so we parked across the street. on city property where the general public has every right to park as long as it is moved every 72 hours.

 

i guess me parking my truck there was fine for the first year we lived there. when my husband got the work truck with his new job that is when the lady starting leaving messages on windshield - which i mentioned. such as but not limited to - move this POS, you cant park here, i'll call the city, on and on etc... one day i was out side and she came running outside and yelled across the street, arms flailing... if you dont move this junker i'll have it towed it is shading my flowers. to which is responded. it is my husband's work truck, i will let him know. to which she said something along the lines of, that's not good enough come move your #$% truck now!!! i went in the house. i proceeded to print off a copy of the court of queens bench parking bylaws and went over to her house and gave them to her. i then told her there was no where else to park, and there is nothing in the bylaw that says we cannot park there. i wont bore you with the rest, however, she called the fire department up to say that the truck was leaking fluids. which it wasnt, they told her that and then told her not to waste their time. she continued to spend the entire summer everytime we came or went screaming out a window, off the patio, from her yard about how we should not be parking in HER parking are in case she felt like parking there. and then she would call bylaw daily to measure how far i was parked from the T intersection. hence the reason WHY i kept parking there. at some point there are people so ignorant, there is nothing else to do with them

 

i would also like to add the 'garden' was north facing with a fence behind it. it didnt get any sun regardless of whether or not i parked there. and i also said before, IF she had approached me and said, hey look, i would prefer that you didnt park your work truck there, in a nice calm manner in which we could have had a civil conversation and discussed options and alternatives, i would have gladly tried to work something out.

 

 

the moral of the story was that if you come off like the crazy lunitic, no one will take you seriously, regardless of the purity of your statement or mission

 

i was quite frankly just teasing fire frog and offering one of many possible solutions in altering his approach and delivery so that he CAN make a difference to our watershed.

 

now, perhaps you would like to go back and realize the error of your ways and apologize for calling me a bitch

Just my opinion, but I suspect the ladys biggest beef was you parked your nice vehicles in your driveway and your old beaters right out front of her home( Im guessing she used the flowers as a polite excuse rather than come right out and say that she didnt want someone elses piece of junk sitting in front of her house). I had a similiar experience myself where a guy continually parked his beat up old truck right out front of my house(made for a beautiful view out of my picture window) while parking his new vehicle in his driveway (even though he still had room for his beater). I tried to have them park their eyesore in their own driveway and was met with the same "it isnt illegal so stick it " reponse you gave your neighbour. The more i tried to reason with them the more petty they became (fortunately they didnt have 2 crappy vehicles to purposely annoy me with) so i just left it a lone. 2 sides to every story

[ladystrange]

yes and no yak. she may have been annoyed that the nice truck was parked in the drive way and the beaters parked in front of her place... except that they were not right outside her front picture window. they were parked on the side of the house that only had 1 window. the bathroom and it was a small window, which i think was either over the toilet or could have been in the shower, but nothing that you would spend your days gazing out of.

 

if she had come over and discussed it politely in stead of leaving nasty notes and then swearing and screaming at me before i even had a chance to say something to her, then we probably could have attempted to do something. not that there really was much we could do. the cul de sac was full and there was 1 spot in front of my house that my neighbour used, the rest was on her side of the street. and if we did park the crappy truck in the drive way she definately would have been staring at it out her window. really, with the houses so close together in the new neighbour hoods it really is hard to find parking.

 

but she didnt ask nice, she threatened and swore, jumped up and down and flailed her arms like a 5 year old throwing a tantrum. i really wasnt going to go out of my way to make her happy. i dont answer to being bullied.

 

 

 

Lynn, there is a soap called CAmp soap, it is biodegradeable, non toxic, phosphate free etc blah blah blah, you could drink it if you really wanted to

 

 

 

[mvdaog]

In their own eyes people see themselves as a perfect angel and everyone outside of that is crazy, stupid, immature, mean, bitchy, short-tempered, illogical. And the only time they'd do anything outside of what Jesus would do is when the rest of those other crazy, stupid, immature etc people deserve it by living their lives in the wrong way.

 

And yea just pushing buttons about the trucks. It is true you can only drive one at a time.

Even though it is kinda funny to have four trucks for two people, at least to my circle of family and friends and myself. I can understand if you were a collector... but otherwise, funny.

[Pipestoneflyguy]

I hear ya MV - This post is actually a conversation I am quite interested in, Even though my comments are not always taken as intended, most of the time I am trying to take some of the discussion's "edge" off and "de-tune" the emotion factor with a little humour or sarcasm, when these things get hot under the collar. (although that isn't how things are always read by others, and I find that I end up inadvertantly fanning the flames per se.)

 

This weekend I was about to wash my jeep and I ended up wondering the same thing about soap - I already know that our storm and overflow sewers all go into the treatment stream here so I went and asked my neighbour as he works in a out local treatment plant - I also explained to him that in the past, when I was volly firefighter, we used to do fundraising car washes and I remember using as much as 4-5 gallons of biodegradable soap with the consent of our utilities manager. Anyway what he had to say was that the plant was very well equiped to deal witrh the soap and if anything, the soap aids in reducing the build up of grease and fat within the system, along with aiding in the breakdown of other oils etc also flushing into the system from roads and parking lots.

 

So up here anyway, the message is that biodegradable soap is not only allowed, but assists with the system's function and health.

 

My father in-law manages one of the plants in Calgary so I am going to ask him about this, I'll post what he says.