How To Deal With Somali Pirates

[Guest Sundancefisher]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8675978.stm

 

Apparantly you pick them up...go to take them back to Russia...then decide to just leave them adrift in a dingy...

 

Sounds fair...if you are a boat that got hijacked in the past...

 

Is this mean or fair play?

[robert]

the thought has crossed my mind of "why give them a dinghy, just drop them off" but that would be cruel I guess...

 

I watched a few programs on discovery on ships travelling that area and the stress the crews are under wondering if they'll get hijacked or not. Having to build a safe room in a ship just because of piracy???

 

sometimes I wonder.

[Nick0Danger]

train em to use firearms, you spit enough rounds at em they will turn around. they they might shoot back but it would be fairly inexpensive to build barriers to fire from, and you would have a more stable firing platform then they would in there little boats.

[dryfly]

It sure as hell would cut down on repeat offenders, eh?

 

Why waste a dinghy though?

 

[jonn]

the thought has crossed my mind of "why give them a dinghy, just drop them off" but that would be cruel I guess...

 

I watched a few programs on discovery on ships travelling that area and the stress the crews are under wondering if they'll get hijacked or not. Having to build a safe room in a ship just because of piracy???

 

sometimes I wonder.

 

Who cares if it's cruel. I can pretty much guarantee they don't have pitty on the crews that they're hijacking. What they need is Pirate seeking missile's.

[ladystrange]

isnt there still some maritime law condoning hanging as means of punishment for piracy

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

If the russians picked them up then they should thank who ever they prey to that they didnt end up in russia!

 

Too bad a prisoner released from jail can get refuge status and stay in that country, thats why the US has not taken any in....so sayith fox news!

 

I see this as a GREAT opportunity to hire out the civilian killers known as BLACK WATER. Those juice moneys love to let lead fly! lol I would actually like to see the ships take a bit more forward action against this problem because if no one is stopping the pirates who the hell is going to stop them.

 

just my 2c

[Crowsnest]

I saw a tv special a year or so ago about how the pirates of Somalia first started to hijack vessels as a way to stop the illegal dumping of toxic waste into their waters and ending up on their shores.

[CTownTBoyz]

The toxic dumping and illegal fishing by other wealthy nations created this entire issue. Imagine you are a fisherman in a third world war-torn country with a family to provide for, and numerous foreign vessels show up, dump toxic waste, and destroy your livelihood.

 

When you lose everything - you lose it.

 

Of course, it doesn't surprise me to read the enlightening views/votes regarding dumping these 'pirates' (from an open perspective, one has to ask who the real 'pirates' are) at sea in a dingy, or leaving them in the open ocean with no watercraft.....a stupid and cruel question really. It's as if these people aren't human......oh yah, they're African so it's ok to dump them at sea; from the white Alberta western tycoon perspective.

 

Not sure why this post was deleted.

[chrisbird]

"oh yah, they're African so it's ok to dump them at sea; from the white Alberta western tycoon perspective."

 

Who are you (aside from out to lunch)...

 

This board is made up of thousands of different kinds of people who all have at least two things in common. The first is that we are looking to be a part of a unique fly fishing community where we can hang our hat and the second would be that not one of us would agree with your above quote. I don't know everyone on this board, but I think that is a safe bet.

 

I find you to be offensive in the worst possible way. That is of course just my opinion. If you take issue with that you are welcome to call our office: 403.249.5975.

 

Best,

 

Chris Bird

[Whistler]

Chris, I think you need to re read CTown's post, I think you totally missed the point

[CTownTBoyz]

"oh yah, they're African so it's ok to dump them at sea; from the white Alberta western tycoon perspective."

 

Who are you (aside from out to lunch)...

 

This board is made up of thousands of different kinds of people who all have at least two things in common. The first is that we are looking to be a part of a unique fly fishing community where we can hang our hat and the second would be that not one of us would agree with your above quote. I don't know everyone on this board, but I think that is a safe bet.

 

I find you to be offensive in the worst possible way. That is of course just my opinion. If you take issue with that you are welcome to call our office: 403.249.5975.

 

Best,

 

Chris Bird

 

C'mon Chris, the whole debate is about whether or not it's justifiable to dump people off in the middle of the ocean. More specifically it's about vigilante justice by western nations towards African nations (a complex but inherently racist issue).

 

This isn't about Fly Fishing.

 

Look inside the opinions; they're racist and ignorant with little understanding of the issue. The only thing being discussed is why it's ok to dump people in the middle of the ocean.

 

If I offended you, too bad. I find it offensive to have a discussion about justified vigilantism towards people from one of the most war-torn poorest nations in the world - by people sitting at desks from one of the richest places in the world. To put it in perspective - most people in Somalia have experienced an immediate family member murdered, have no healthcare, and are malnourished.

 

Sorry, but the discussion is in poor taste and racist.

 

 

rac·ism   /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled[rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA

–noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

 

[chrisbird]

C'mon Chris, the whole debate is about whether or not it's justifiable to dump people off in the middle of the ocean. More specifically it's about vigilante justice by western nations towards African nations (a complex but inherently racist issue).

 

This isn't about Fly Fishing.

 

Look inside the opinions; they're racist and ignorant with little understanding of the issue. The only thing being discussed is why it's ok to dump people in the middle of the ocean.

 

If I offended you, too bad. I find it offensive to have a discussion about justified vigilantism towards people from one of the most war-torn poorest nations in the world - by people sitting at desks from one of the richest places in the world. To put it in perspective - most people in Somalia have experienced an immediate family member murdered, have no healthcare, and are malnourished.

 

Sorry, but the discussion is in poor taste and racist.

 

 

rac·ism   /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled[rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA

–noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

 

 

Re-read my previous post. I chose not to engage you on the issue. I called you out on how you chose to deliver your message.

 

I have been to Africa's east coast and have seen first hand some of the problems. You seem educated on many of the topics where you choose to post. I would encourage you to deliver messages regarding important topics like this one in a credible way free of counter-productive filler.

 

c:

[CTownTBoyz]

Re-read my previous post. I chose not to engage you on the issue. I called you out on how you chose to deliver your message.

 

I have been to Africa's east coast and have seen first hand some of the problems. You seem educated on many of the topics where you choose to post. I would encourage you to deliver messages regarding important topics like this one in a credible way free of counter-productive filler.

 

c:

 

Chris, you did engage me on the issue when you said:

 

"Who are you (aside from out to lunch)..."

 

There is no counterproductive filler in my post. I pointed out the truth in regards to blindsided opinions regarding an issue that I know most people know nothing about; rhetoric is hardly counterproductive filler. Furthermore, if you think for a second that the opinions on one side of this issue are not racist you're mistaken. If you've been to Somalia (not the Seychelles or Egypt) you would know this.

 

There is a huge difference when people steal to survive than when people steal for personal gain. The attitude of vigilante justice to deal with a complex and socially marginalized indigent group of people is both morally distasteful and ignorant. I believe in standing up to the status quo in regards to social justice - even if I ostracize or isolate myself (which seems unfortunately to be common place in this province....judging by the votes).

 

Chris, you wrote

 

"This board is made up of thousands of different kinds of people who all have at least two things in common. The first is that we are looking to be a part of a unique fly fishing community where we can hang our hat and the second would be that not one of us would agree with your above quote. I don't know everyone on this board, but I think that is a safe bet."

 

Again, do some research…. If you think racism doesn't exist you are 'out to lunch'. And if you think it is 'safe bet' that everyone on this board is not racist you're wrong; the statistics don't support it.

 

Racism is more complex than segregation, or sitting at the back of the bus. The idea that one race (the Russians and rest of the West) can exploit, damage and implore their mighty hand on another culture (the Somalians) and their resources is racism. Furthermore the idea and approval that they {the Russians / West} can deal with any rebellion towards their actions by dropping people out in the middle of the ocean is both racist and despicable.

 

I think the news article says it best; in Russia they capture 'pirates' and dump them out at sea in a dingy. I like to think that Canadians are above a beyond this type of archaic behavior; apparently I am mistaken according to at the present 15 to 4 votes.

 

I'm proud of my opinions, and I'll stand up to anyone that says different.

[CTownTBoyz]

A little background info.....

 

Waste dumping

Following the Indian Ocean tsunami of December 2004, there have emerged allegations that after the outbreak of the Somali Civil War in the late 1991s, Somalia's long, remote shoreline was used as a dump site for the disposal of toxic waste. The huge waves which battered northern Somalia after the tsunami are believed to have stirred up tonnes of nuclear and toxic waste that was illegally dumped in Somali waters by several European firms. The European Green Party followed up these revelations by presenting before the press and the European Parliament in Strasbourg copies of contracts signed by two European companies—the Italian Swiss firm, Achair Partners, and an Italian waste broker, Progresso—and representatives of the warlords then in power, to accept 10 million tonnes of toxic waste in exchange for $80 million (then about £60 million). According to a report by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) assessment mission, there are far higher than normal cases of respiratory infections, mouth ulcers and bleeding, abdominal haemorrhages and unusual skin infections among many inhabitants of the areas around the northeastern towns of Hobbio and Benadir on the Indian Ocean coast—diseases consistent with radiation sickness. UNEP continues that the current situation along the Somali coastline poses a very serious environmental hazard not only in Somalia but also in the eastern Africa sub-region.[59][60]

 

Under Article 9(1)(d) of the Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and Their Disposal, it is illegal for "any transboundary movement of hazardous wastes or other wastes: that results in deliberate disposal (e.g. dumping) of hazardous wastes or other wastes in contravention of this Convention and of general principles of international law".[61]

 

According to Nick Nuttall of the United Nations Environmental Programme, "Somalia has been used as a dumping ground for hazardous waste starting in the early 1990s, and continuing through the civil war there," and "European companies found it to be very cheap to get rid of the waste, costing as little as $2.50 a tonne, where waste disposal costs in Europe are something like $1000 a tonne." [56][62]

 

[edit] Illegal fishing

At the same time, illegal trawlers began fishing Somalia's seas with an estimated $300 million of tuna, shrimp, and lobster being taken each year depleting stocks previously available to local fishermen. Through interception with speedboats, Somali fishermen tried to either dissuade the dumpers and trawlers or levy a "tax" on them as compensation. In an interview, Sugule Ali, one of the pirate leaders explained "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits (to be) those who illegally fish and dump in our seas." Peter Lehr, a Somalia piracy expert at the University of St. Andrews says "It's almost like a resource swap, Somalis collect up to $100 million a year from pirate ransoms off their coasts and the Europeans and Asians poach around $300 million a year in fish from Somali waters."[22][63]

 

According to Roger Middleton of Chatham House, "The problem of overfishing and illegal fishing in Somali waters, is a very serious one, and does affect the livelihoods of people inside Somalia […] the dumping of toxic waste on Somalia’s shores is a very serious issue, which will continue to affect people in Somalia long after the war has ended, and piracy is resolved."[64] To lure fish to their traps, foreign trawlers reportedly also use fishing equipment under prohibition such as nets with very small mesh sizes and sophisticated underwater lighting systems.[55]

 

Under Article 56 of the Law of the Sea Convention:

 

"In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State has jurisdiction as provided for in the relevant provisions of this Convention with regard to the protection and preservation of the marine environment".

 

Article 57 of the Convention in turn outlines the limit of that jurisdiction:

 

"The exclusive economic zone shall not extend beyond 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured".[65]

[bigbowtrout]

I like Cake

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

ships should have the right to protect them selfs, ability is not a question at all. sand bags and M16s should do the trick.

 

BBTrout - chocolate cakes is the best

[bigbowtrout]

Closed due to way too much fun being had by all!!!

 

 

BBT