jdangler Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'm sure these questions have been asked before, but I havent been able to find the answers & some of I havent been able to understand the answer. I fairly new to this spey thing and wanted to get into it because ot looked fun & a new challenge. I fish the Bow primarily so I thought a Spey outfit would be great for Streamers & maybe longer drifts when nymphing. I bought a Echo 6126 which is 12'6" rod for 6/7 weight and have a Windcutter line. I have done a little nymphing & but mostly streamers. I havent caught anything yet but no biggie. So my questions are #1. For streamers would it be better with a Skagit compact head with a sinking cheater & short 4'-6' sinking leader to get some depth or use the Windcutter with a longer leader with weighted streamer? The longer leader I was thinking it would be hard to turn over & awkward. #2 am I wrong in thinking of nymphing with the Spey to get a long drift? Casting is practice & more practice. I accept that, I have gone to casting schools & enjoyed them, enjoyted the people, bought the DVD's. I see all the threads on all the boards on what lines to use, what weights of lines to use, lengths, Scandi, Skagit, or Windcutter. For now I just want to know how to fish with it. Thanks Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I love a skagit with a sink tip for swinging streamers. If you get a couple of different sink tip weights (type 3 and 6) you can use those to adjust your depth and tie your streamers with less weight making them a lot easier to cast. I'd head over to Fish Tales and ask to borrow their compact skagit kit to figure out which one works best for you. Try starting with the 450 grain head and either work your way up or down to find the optimal weight for your cast. You can probably get a slightly longer drift with a spey rod for nymphing. The thing is, if you have a lot of line on the water it can be more difficult to mend and when that indicator moves picking all that line up off the water to set the hook in time is difficult. I stopped nymphing with my spey rod for those exact reasons. Instead I just spey cast my single-hand rod for nymphing. This is my opinion based upon my own experience and should not be taken as a condemnation of nymphing with a spey rod. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeler Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I use a 24' skagit with 10' polyleaders on my 12.5' Deer Creek with no problems - cheaters can be a pain and there really is no point on a shorter spey rod. Skagit lines were designed to turn over heavy tips and are a good investment for winter fishing when you may have a limited back cast due to being on an ice shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdangler Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thanks Fellas. Confirmed my thoughts about Skagit & Streamers, & sticking with my one hander fot nymphing. I will have a look Rio's new 450 gr. Skagit Flight Head so, sound it would be the right setup for my rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 everyone nailed it in posts above! skagits are the way too go too toss bigger streamers! i like my scandi lines for nymphin! most of the nymphing in short is done with a single hander but when fishing past 40 feet i find i can mend easier and get better leverage on hooksets way out!, less fatigue also when casting,hooksetting and mending over a long day! double handers can be key too for the offseason(october-may) when the fish love too hold in mid river buckets trenches and seams farther out! rather than standing in the water! but a skagit line will fish nymphs just as easy! when mending keep in mind single or double handed the mre line oyu have otu the higher your rod must bee off the water too move the line! tightlines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdangler Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Maxwell, the time of year you mention is one of the reason I went to the Spey, stay dry & warmer & get the casts further out. Do you use a normal leader setup like a single hand rod for nymphing like a 6'-7' leader with indicator and 2 flies, with an upstream cast & drift down with rod held high with a mend or 2 thrown in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 only thing i do different with a double hander is toss farther and wade less.. rig stays the same.. dont use a floating tip/poly leader...not needed.. bin there done that wasted money... my 6 and 7 wt speys have ibn my go too winter rods the last few winters! . cast up toss in teh mend.. stay on top of the slack/mends during teh drift.. hammer it with less effort at 60 feet than with my 9footer and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdangler Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thanks, your answers & advice helped a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethfisher Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 ... dont use a floating tip/poly leader...not needed.. bin there done that wasted money... does that include the sinking poly leaders?? Like the 5 or 10ft Airflo Trout Intermediate or Fast Sinking poly? Will that make any difference or should the weight of the fly be enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 for nymphing with indicators? when i streamer fish or swing wets i fish tips with my skagit(can be done with a scandi too) i was refering too nymphing with indicators.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowcane Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Before buying a new line try some tips on your WC, you may have to cut it and your tips a bit but it does work. With my Scott LS1206 I can cast all the rio 6wt tips (inter, type3 & 6), I shortened the WC6 about 3' and cut the tips to 10'. I'll say it up front, I'm not a big skagit fan and other than fishing the Niagara gorge @ 10000CMS cant think of any situation east of the rockies where you have to. You relize for the most part you will only be able to double spey and the snaps? If I were to buy a new line I'd look into the Guideline DDC Scandi system with both floating and intermediate bellys. Scandi will do all you want here, after all it was developed for fishing those tight Norwegian fiords with big tube flies in the winter, and these rivers are not spring creeks. Yes you still have to get down for Atlantics 2-3' or more in those conditions. Nuff on that! I only use floating and intermediate polys, everything else is tips. Some of the Great lakes steelheaders do indi fish, I haven't done it, even when I lived there as it was what we were trying to get away from using the two handers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDoctor Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Lots of great advice here, I use Scandia, Skagit and Windcutters with sink tips. They all have their advantages. I tend to use Skagets in heavier wind bad weather. All will work for firing big streamers out. I flip to the two handers for winter also, much easier to reach those outer seams and easier on this body for a day of casting especially wearing winter layers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kranny Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I use a skagit head and a type 3 or 6 sink tip. This seem to work well with the double streamer set up, the flies turn over really nice and there is very rarely a tangle up between the 2 flies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowcane Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 One big point we've all missed that just occured to me, with a WC the head is about 50' plus tip/leader and rod your out there about 75' cast after cast...no need to strip running line back, a big plus in the winter. No guide icing, wet hands getting cold, gloves/mitts getting wet etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdangler Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 One big point we've all missed that just occured to me, with a WC the head is about 50' plus tip/leader and rod your out there about 75' cast after cast...no need to strip running line back, a big plus in the winter. No guide icing, wet hands getting cold, gloves/mitts getting wet etc. Hey good thought, Another + for the Spey. Thanks, Bowcane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 You relize for the most part you will only be able to double spey and the snaps? I think a lot of people casting scandi and mid-belly lines only use those casts for the most part as well. Skagit is much more versatile than many people think and you can do snake rolls and even single speys with a skagit, not to mention perry pokes. I think everyone should try multiple line types and see which they prefer and use the right tool for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowcane Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I think a lot of people casting scandi and mid-belly lines only use those casts for the most part as well. Skagit is much more versatile than many people think and you can do snake rolls and even single speys with a skagit, not to mention perry pokes. I think everyone should try multiple line types and see which they prefer and use the right tool for them. Yes try them all, but on the first point, while I can only speak for myself, I'd much rather single spey with a scandi/WC as my first choice, then snake roll/jelly roll. If I'm using a difficult to lift tip, then snaps. Not calling the double out dated, but it is a very slow cast prone to your sink tip, well sinking if the first stage is done improperly. All too often people tend to drag the first stage rather than lift it. Cresent lifts help greatly.The mechanics and sheer lifting power of skagit basically overcome this. One thing to remember with skagits when singling and rolling is to use a lighter head then you'd normally use, and anchor placement can be difficult but not un-doable. I tried and used it skagits, but in the end found them little advantage...for how and where I fished. If I ever get through my 'gotta fish there' list and get to a Pacific NW coast stream then by all means I'll re-investage skagit. Before someone asks, yes you can lift a tip with a single spey using, and I do it, with my previously described WC set-up and scandi's. I've only used mids for Atlantics on the Margaree so I really cant comment other than to say I was using long mono leaders/light polytips and down force flies, though I bet heavy tips would be a bugger! In the end I still think the Rio WC and its competiters are one of the best all round lines...the F100 (that dates me!) of spey lines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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