yak

did you pay full price for the xp when it was the latest sage line or pick it for $350 when they discontinued the XP and came out with the z axis line? at $325-350 ( what I paid for my 2 XPs) I agree that they are worth every penny.

brian, how can that be when sage is using much more expensive materials ( at least i assume they do as apparently there is very little markup on their $800 rods)

great fly fishing in russia and cuba lol. dont mind markup, just seems naive to think it hasnt effected our sport. I too have few hobbies outside golf and FF so like to have quality gear. Im just happeir when i pay 50 percent of the cost because the clubs/rods i buy are one year removed from the latest line offered by the manafacturer of choice. Nyet to z axis,Dah to xp

I have watched low handicappers play great shots with poor equipment and high handicappers butcher the course with $3000 worth of clubs.The hacker still enjoys the sport but obviuosly isnt getting anything extra by paying a premium for his clubs. IMO, a good flyfisherman with a walmart special will outfish an average angler with a $1000 sage. If the price of the rod ( or the driver) enhances the experience for you then it is worth the cost, but think how good a day it would be if you got your $1000 dream rod for half price. I personally try to juggle quality with price by waiting for the deals that are out there. again, each to his own

The world is a big mean place when it comes to gettting the most bang for ones buck and getting a good deal. i guess we are just very lucky that fly rod makers (unlike almost every other business out there) dont need to make a big markup on their products and put the customer before the bottom line l. We are even more fortuante they are willing to take a 50 percent loss on products when they have outdated a line or series even though they must have to sell a hell of a lot of z axis rods to make up the difference ( especailly when they apparently barely cover their cost in the first place ). Perhaps my pessimism is unwarranted. sunshine and lollipops

thats about what I would approximate as well. I figured the xps i purchased at $350 were roughly at cost for sage

I believe the price has been "set" by all the manafactureers such that they all make a very good markup. Bad business for anyone to undercut and undercut prices. IMO, all the companies are ripping us if with regard to what it actually costs to make these rods compared to what they charge Joe average to buy them.As drake has pointed out ,prettty much every consumer item has this type of markup so there is little one can do except to take advantage of the loophole these companies provide when they discontinue lines and sell them for half the original cost.I have tried a z axis and for myself ( I am a fairly new to the sport with only 8 years invested) there was little difference between it an the XPs i use. Certainly not enough of a differnce to justify the $500 difference between what i paid for the XPs and what they are asking for the Z ( again this is just for myself). I am not trying to slag any company or anyone who is willing to pony up the $1000 to buy their favorite high end rod, just trying to give the original poster an option should he choose to wait on his purchase.

Call me skeptical, but I still dont believe these companies are taking a loss on the old line and dont believe they are not making a big markup on the new line as well. While not involed in the rod building industry, I am familair with markups on consumer products in general and would be very surprised if the $800 z is costing them more than 2 or 3 hundred to produce. I realize there are other costs as well ( marketing,R and D etc, ) but they still make a big chunk on every rod they sell. lol, agree with the golf equipment. While I dont generally buy used , I play Taylor made clubs ( like most guys my equipment is better than my swing ) and always wait for them to outdate a current line ( usually every 3-4 years) and then buy the old line for half price. The new line has minor differences at best ( much like fly rods IMO), so for half price I essentially play the same technology.

lol, well dont buy that but regardless, i will wait for the new xyzpz axis to come out and then buy my zs for $350. reminds of a famous PT Barnum quote....

why is then that these rods are worth half price as soon as the next line is introduced. did sage take a $300 loss on all the XPs once they started selling the zs? I agree that the guy trying to sell them out of a specialty flyfishing store isnt geting rich or gouging the consumer but you cant tell me that sage isnt making a bundle on every z axis they sell. Are the materials sage uses in the z axis that much superior to the TFO line to justify athe 500-600 dollar difference or are they merely duping the consumer with the name on the rod? I am extremely happy with the 2 xps i have but Im even more pleased that i waited to purchase them for half price when the zs came out. i expect if a guy is patient the zs will also be half price once sage introdcues their next "inovation" to the flyfishing world

IMO, they definitely gouge the consumer. sage rods are like taylor made golf clubs. every 3-5 years they change their latest and greatest line of rods and then sell the previous line for a fraction of the price. I wanted an XP when it was sages top of the line rod but couldnt justify spending $700-$800 . as soon as the z axis came out the xps were being sold for $350(bought a 6 weight and a 3 weight for $350 and $325 respectively). If you really want the z axis wait for sage to introduce their next "must have rod" and then the z axis will be available for 50-60 percent of what they are charging now. they prey on the guy who has to have the top of the line rod regardless of price.

looks more like the richard prior fly

have to have a few stimmies in the box. love using an orange bodied stimmy with a red ant follower for the crow. red bodied stimmys are another go to fly ( for me) for the liv and oldman (not sure why but orange seems best for the crow and red for the other two rivers). not my first fly on the bow but have good success with them in the evening there as well (can be deadly skidding them across the water at the end of a drift)

aaahh, a NW renter on a low budget. if you moved to dover you could save a few bucks and quit smokin dirt weed .

very good point max. clive is endorsing using the gill plate lift these fish out of the water without going on to mention this may not(is not) be appropriate for other species. that in itself could also be construed as irresponsible as a lesser angler without the 50 years of experience may think that the way to handle other species as well. while a valid point, perhaps it could have been better presented(good fish handling skills dont always equate into good people handling skills l)

you give up 48 shots at home and are happy with this? agree lou stole the show. the restof the team looked shaky. coupled with losses to the oil and colorado last week I dont think i would be planning any parades if i were you (van will lose in colorado to end the season on a high note)

numbers dont lie? I guess bobby lous no dam good either lol. oiler fans crack me up

big fan of GSP but he beat a guy that he outwighed by 15 pounds ( they both wieghed 170 at weigh in but at fight time GSP was closer to 185). He has one more hurdle to climb. he needs to beat the spider ( this time it will be GSP giving up 10-15 lbs at fight time). that will be the single biggest UFC draw of all time if/when that fight happens. atta boy georges. a great fighter who wins with class ( no trash talk or BS from GSP)

I added my 2 cents long after the post became anti quads. u obviuosly dont have a problem with the ongoing destruction caused by these off road enthusiasts so theres little point debating this with you.

you can compare apples to oranges all you want but head out to the liv. valley after a may long weekend and tell me if the actual percentages really matter. agree with hawgstoppah. they have already destroyed waiprous so why not designate this area and this area only for future destruction/"fun". if they ever petition for a ban on these bloody things in the liv. valley I will run to add my signature. guys bitch about poachers and jet boats all the time, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the damage done to alberta fisheries by the majority of offroaders. definitley not trying to paint all quadders with the same brush but have seen enough in my lifetime to aquire a real distaste for them

used to be no quadding and excellent fishing. coincidence? still remember one day at the liv. I headed downstream from the campground and came a cross a woman standing in the middle of the river trying to keep her kids atv from washing downstream. dummy was riding right up the middle and got stuck. She was damn near blue as she was only wearing shorts and sandals and had been standing there for quite some time. i waded in and helped her pull it out. She then told me she was surprised it happened as the entire family rode up and down the middle of the river all the time. Wanted to toss it and her back in but didnt want to litter. 90 % of quaders/off roaders destroy habitat in pursuit of "fun" . doesnt really matter how responsible the other 10 % are

does walking across a set in Noth Hollywood count. moon walk never happenend

was that the red green quartet?

have to agree about iron mike. when they signed iron mike i thought he will either take us all the way to the promised land or cause problems in our locker room. very poor coaching decison to pull kipper compounded by calling out his play after the game to the media.he should have taken his time out, let the boys regroup and go back at it with kipper in net and only down 4-2. may have been a totally different result. ps. getting rid of sutter would be a very poor move. hes managed to sign a corps of players most teams would kill for (dion,iggy,kipper,regher) to long term contracts at reduced salaries ( no mystery that these players would have made a bunch more if they tested the open market). the only way I want sutter moved is if its back behind the bench

thanks ADC.with only one professional hockey team in the province that participates in the post season its a good thing we have so many good alberta junior teams to pull for.