DonAndersen

GB... Certainly I would like to have a yearly data set. Certainly I realize that it is only a snap shot in time. But - we got what we got! F&W DO NOT have the money to run the data sets every year. I thought there was trouble brewing about 8 years ago from the lack of bugs in Section #4. Seems like the data that we do have bears this out. I waited for the next population run & then 2 more years before the report was available. Confirms what I saw. Now, I could follow your suggestion, wait for somebody or me to fund 10 years of population data. Sure could!! And wait another 2>5 years after that for somebody to do something. Sure could!! And them that makes that 23 years from the time I first thought there might be a problem. And I thought the glaciers moved slowly. F&W manage within the resources available to them. Most of the time, it is by their seat of their pants or best guess or the moon is in the right phase. Most of the time they get it right. They don't have the resources and never will. If private citizens wish to undertake responsibility for what is essentially theirs, why O why would anyone get in their way. In the meeting last fall with F&W, they wished to remain as the studiers of Stauffer but didn't have the resources to do it. The yea old Catch 22. They wanted to have Dept of En. take water tests. Well, that was a bust. Stauffer is the inverse of "build it and they will come". Used to be lots of anglers there. Seen upwards of 12 vehicles @ access points. Not any longer. Wonder why? I guess the anglers are voting with their feet. As far as angler data sets, I've looked for them. Most anglers don't keep logs. And please read the comments below that I posted previously. No flood, drought or high temps - it's a spring creek - get it. "PS: A couple of things must born in mind is the work the has gone into the creek since the early 70's and was virtually completed by 2000. The big bounce in fish numbers occurred fro 1970>1985 when the exclusion fencing was done in all sections except for the top section in #1. Then they tapered off or fell. This seems counterintuitive. One would think that the numbers, as each part of the creek was rehabed would stay high or get higher. Didn't happen. Most curious. Further, unlike most streams, Stauffer rarely suffers any type of high water and flooding with the major source waters as springs. Sure, it's been high, but raging floods haven't happened. It's truly a benign environment as compared to other streams in Alberta. " Curiously, unlike most years, I haven't seen any early black stones yet or boatman in the quiet water. Still watching. To give you an idea how bad things are within F&W. A K Factor test was done in Struble Lake in 1968. A group of anglers did another in 2007. That's about 39 years between data sets and there would not have been one done in 2007 w/o anglers pushing for it. Ever wondered if a farmer did it that way. Tossed his cows in a field and 39 years later the neighbor finally looked @ the cows and gave the owner a report. Think I've about beat this to death. Give me a call when you have raised enough money for the data sets and I'll sit and watch and certainly make comment. Oh crap, I just realized. I'm 62 -by the time your data sets are done, decisions made and action plan developed, resources secured and anything accomplished - I'll be dead. regards, Don

Jonny5, I'll attempt to answer your questions. 1] I don't have the raw data. I could contact the writer and see if he'll release them. Let me know on this one. 2] I think your are looking @ sections 1>2 regarding brook numbers/biomass. What the data doesn't show is the $80.000 and 3 years of work that was spent through Barry Mitchell and my efforts stabilizing 6,000 tonnes of silt, rehabing about 3/4 mile of stream length in these section. If this work was not done, I'd think that the brook trout would have nearly disappeared. Prior to the work in section # 1, there were few trout, now there @ some at least. 3] The brown trout #'s in section 2 - 1985 @ 1300>2005 @ 400, section 3 - 1985 @ 500>2005 @ 200, section #4 1985 @ 900> 2005 @ 300 - overall the decrease is about 300%. During the same period of time, the fencing for nearly all upstream sections was completed and the habitat enhanced. 4] Section 4 is the one that fared the best in terms of habitat replacement/repair and has had exclusion fencing for many years. I used to fish that area a lot- hardly worth the effort now. Few bugs. The land and area by in large has not changed in many years. It's a mostly a cattle raising area. Sent you email via site regarding further testing & livers. PS: A couple of things must born in mind is the work the has gone into the creek since the early 70's and was virtually completed by 2000. The big bounce in fish numbers occurred fro 1970>1985 when the exclusion fencing was done in all sections except for the top section in #1. Then they tapered off or fell. This seems counterintuitive. One would think that the numbers, as each part of the creek was rehabed would stay high or get higher. Didn't happen. Most curious. Further, unlike most streams, Stauffer rarely suffers any type of high water and flooding with the major source waters as springs. Sure, it's been high, but raging floods haven't happened. It's truly a benign environment as compared to other streams in Alberta. regards, Don

Guys, Suggested to F&W the idea of doing a liver check. The idea skidded along and flopped down dead. But that begs a great question. I can kill fish. I have a license. Does anyone know someone that could do a test. I could possibly get a Fishery Research License from F&W to kill a fish for sampling. The season doesn't open till July for killing legally. And ricinus, I hope I find nothing. But that doesn't prove anything. Still might be there and takes unusual circumstances to liberate the chemicals. regards, Don

Tako, I realize that not taking a background test may not be the best method but I finally looked as the thing like a pregnancy test. I only cared if she was pregnant. The who did it and where it was done will have to be answered by Govt. We do have a finite budget for the tests and they are costly. catch ya' Don

For those that are interested in the tests. I originally planned to take a background series before snow melt and run-off and then realized I really didn't care. I only cared if any of the suspect chemicals were in evidence. I was going to take 3 samples starting in the pre-runoff period and @ 3 locations. The test were going to be done over a 5 month period. The fish/population population data suggest that if there is a problem, it is likely downstream of Carr Creek so three locations seemed a tad much. So I'll be taking the tests several hundred yards below the confluence of Carr and Stauffer after mixing is complete. So the testing regime is now planned for a series of 6>9 tests @ one location over the open water season starting next week. The chemicals selected for testings are agri-business and oil company related as both are in the area. This is not to say that either of them is @ fault but they could be the source. What must be born in mind is that the decrease in fish/invertebrate populations, as Clive rightly pointed out, could be anything including natural variance in populations. Do recall the Leopard Frog. Nobody that I'm aware off has ever figure out where they went and why. catch ya' Don

Clive, The pesticides are going to be combined into one test. Awaiting quote of the cost of doing the Sevin. It's unlikely to be there but has been used for grasshoppers + it seems persistent in the environment. Tried to involve Dept. of En. They tested the water downstream of the possible effected area about 10 miles [ BETX would have disappeared by then]. The tests they ran are mostly "domestic" in nature. They pointed out that doing BETX, VOC's + other tests were way too costly, we shouldn't point fingers @ any one industry and the decrease in fish #'s was related to decrease in habitat. So like Streamwatch - if the GOVT won't do their job, guess that leaves .....................................? catch ya' Don

GopherBoy, Thanx for contributing your normal fluff and not much else. Don

GopherBoy, Whoa up there cowboy. This is NOT my data set but a data set prepared by your and my fishing license $'s to monitor populations of the stream. While I realize they are limited, they are the best there is for this creek and most importantly, are nearly the best data set available for any stream in Alberta. Are far as not being valid, I'd suggest you take up that subject with the F&W Division. They set up the timing and do the work. And if you are really interested, how about you getting several million $'s together and do a data set each year for the streams in Alberta or better than that make sure that you vote in a Govt that cares enough to fund a better data set. And if think this is bad, you outta set the data sets for other streams. Some are 25+ years old. The data sets I DO have control over is my own fishing records. Unfortunately, they about match the data set provided by the ACA for F&W. And I already have funding for the water testing required. Please reread the third last sentence in the original posting. And lastly, through the above posting, a gentleman passed the request to another who provided the expertise required. catch ya' Don

Mudflap, There have been pike there since forever. Some very good ones. If I recall correctly, the pike season is open. They make decent eating. Don't think that they effect the population much although they certainly eat trout. I've seen one catch a trout that I spooked upstream. Wasn't a pretty sight. But that's nature. Sometimes you are the grub! PS - I was there Friday before the herd. Caught a few trout. catch ya' Don

Hi, I need help sorting through some questions with regard to an analysis of the water quality on Stauffer Creek. I have contacted AGAT labs to do the analysis and they are reluctant to point me in any direction due to conflict of interest. I have attempted to solicit help from an Environmental Consulting firm, U of L Prof, Dept. of En. and on and on. This attempt to get help with the analysis selection has taken about 2 months. Not that I haven't tried but all of them either were busy or declined with regrets. I need to get the samples caught in the next 3>4 days prior to field run-off commencing. Who am I: I'm Don Andersen, co-Habitat Chairman of the Central Alberta Chapter of Trout Unlimited. What is the North Raven River: It is a reasonably large spring creek located north of Caroline Alberta that flows SE towards to the Red Deer River. It has one tributary stream [ Carr Creek] that flows heavily in the spring run-off and barely flows the rest of the year unless there is a lot of rain. The drainage area for Carr Creek is about a township in size and is mostly a mixed farm area. There are no large industrial sites. The land is normally used for cattle grazing or hay production. What is the concern with the creek: The creek provincially important and was the first Buck for Wildlife project in Alberta. The riparian area was protected by exclusion fencing allowing the stream to rebound from it's former shabbiness caused by agree-business abuse. The population of fish is sampled on a 10 year increment and over the past 2 samplings, not only the number but the bio-mass has declined. See population information here: http://www.ab-conservation.com/Sport_Fish_...h_Raven_River_1 973-2005.pdf What has been done so far: 1] The Dept. of environment sampled the creek @ their normal sampling point @ the Highway # 54 bridge. The samples were mostly of the "domestic" type. I can provide the sampling results from the Dept. 2] A insect sampling was done by myself and 2 others last summer to determine number of aquatics insects. The sampling showed a decrease on both numbers and weight of the insects the downstream of the Carr Creek confluence. I can provide a document describing the testing. What remains to be done: A several water samples should be done looking @ some of the potential causes of the fish and invertebrate decline. The samples would look @ hydrocarbons, BETX and pesticides. The pesticides I'm looking at are: Sevin, 24D, MCPA, & PICLORAM. Can the pesticides be combined into one test called Phenoxy Acid Herbicides? I envision catching a series of samples during the next several months to see if the fish/invertebrate declines are caused by a chemical problem. I have funding for the analysis generously provided by TU Edmonton. Would you consent to help me select which tests I need to do? Please contact me through this site via personal message or email. regards, Don Andersen

and from the best "sig" line I've seen comes the quote: "Some people go to church and think about fishing and some people go fishing and think about God" Don

Guys, With all the comments about everyones favorite place, thought I best post mine. The Toilet Bow!! Or as it's known as a "World Class Fishery!! Don

Toolman, Fishing boards are about hero shots and BS - Got both into 2 sentences. Still though, the Bow/Crow and tribs. have silver fish. Other areas of Alberta seem to have them darker. Maybe the difference between Loch Leven's and German browns. Both were stocked. The pictures of Loch Leven Browns tend to show lighter colors. Might be genetically related to the peaty colored waters. catch ya' Don

Birchy, The browns got me curious. Seems like from the Bow north they have the normal butter colored belly and decent spotting. From the Bow>south, they are much more silver except for a couple of creeks/rivers that I will keep to myself. I'd suspect that the "silver" browns suffer some type of malady that allows them to be caught by most anyone. Plus the silver ones are generally skinny and outta shape allowing easy handling for hero shots. catch ya' Don

Weedy1, Is that @ the church or the Alberta legislature blgd? Don't wanta get lost on my way. Can't reinforce the notion of those that figure I've been lost for some time. Don

ricinus, It's great seeing a CDN company doing well in the face of the junk coming out of China. There always seems to a decent market for good tools. I know what you mean about customer relations with Lee Valley. Had the hots @ one time to try a wood sole plane and they had three in their catalogue. Wrote them [this was before the email stuff but slightly after Pony Express] and described what I wanted to do with the plane and which one would they recommend. Curiously, they recommended the cheaper plane. It was only $40 @ that time and I was prepared for the expensive one @ $165. Makes you wonder how many businesses would recommend their least expensive product. After that, they got my business whenever I needed tools Len Lee did a sharpening program @ the Calgary store just after the book was written. Great guy. The slide show from that web link is a very good one. I know how long it takes to put one together. I have one on PP that I've used for speaking engagements. Only took 6 months of picture taking and editing. Every day my wife would take more photos as the rod went through the process of construction. From all the photos, I got about 1/2 hour of Power Point. Hope you enjoyed the site. It's a dandy. catch ya' Don

ricinus, Gotta a kick outta seeing made in Canada tools on the site. His planes were Stanley and Record, both made by Record of the UK. The measurement tools I couldn't see clear enough. And Lee Valley it is. A CDN company started by a guy from Sask. while working in Ottawa. Can't imagine a woodworker or wood craftsman of any type not drooling over their catalogues. catch ya' Don

Guys/Gals, Here is a site that unfortunately in in Italian. But the pictures say it all. While he uses some tools & techniques I don't, you will get the general idea of the construction techniques. And for all you hawkeyed folks out there, how many CDN made tools is he using and where are they available? For those that can't sit still for 10 minutes or so, this site isn't for you. http://upon-bamboo-fly-fishing-rods-and-re...s/slideshow.swf Don

See: http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/gear/matthews_waders.aspx

Flytyer, Gotta agree with ya'. The first picture kept me chuckling for an hour while grocery shopping. The other side about sums up the last 37 years. catch ya' Don

For rent: A Louisville slugger with MANNERS stencilled on the side. Ignore the blood and hair. Doesn't slow down the swing. Used occasionally on the Crow. Don

Guys/Gals, Spotted @ a local church this morning. And on the opposite side we have this: catch ya' Don

LoneFisher, I like SAD. Finally a malady that effects us all. I've ducked and ran from PMS most of my life and finally I get a kick @ the cat and you want to cure it. You can forget that. I wanta be pissed off. It's revenge. PLUS, it certainly separates those you want to spend some quality fishing time with to those you don't. SAD, the human filter. BRING IT ON!!! Don

L2K, I Steelhead fish some and what I've found is that flies come in 2 broad categories. Bright & Dark. Tied some orange/pink/lime things - forget the rotating eyeballs, exotic feathers, horns, tags and all that crap. Glob on some bright colored marabou. Ya got it. As for the dark ones - globs of black marabou work fine. Maybe a black sparse hackle if your so inclined. The reason that there are so many steelhead patterns is that there are few steelhead and they get exalted to levels as being hard to catch. Fresh fish are stupid. They are designed to eat everything that moves. Doesn't matter what. Fish that have been in the river and caught a number of times get tougher. Egg patterns and stone fly nymphs work just fine. Make sure that you check the regs for the water you intend to fish. FF only means no external weights & no indicators. And lastly, be prepared to be skunked. For weeks @ a time. As there are so few fish, your chances of success are quite low. Still, there are some. Winter fish tend to be loggy although ever now and then one does get wired. The first few I caught, I might as well be fishing for walleye. Then one on the Cowichan changed all that. Ran a sack of line off, jumped and tossed the hook. Then I was hooked. have fun - you've set yourself on a tough trail, Don

I report poachers a lot. So far, 80% have drove pickups, all were white, all male, 1 with small children not a Wong among 'em. Don