DonAndersen
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Posts posted by DonAndersen
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Guys,
Note: The post quotes Besko as saying "FOR NOW". The battle may be over for 2011 but the war continues.
F&G continues their opposition.
regards,
Don
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Folks,
The backgrounder:
Quality Stocked Fishery [QSF] according to the draft Position Paper published in January 2008 which said:
Desired Characteristics of Prospective Quality Fisheries:
1. Water bodies preferred for quality fisheries will have the capability to produce 50
cm plus trout within a minimum of 4 years of stocking.
2. Management of the fishery can achieve maintaining 10 to15% of the stock in the
50 cm + size range
This position paper was reiterated by SRD in a QSF in a release on September 2011 which said:
Desired characteristics: 50+cm Trout 4 years after stocking, maintain 10-15% of stock in 50+cm class.
Draft Position Paper found here: http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/Fis...ries-Jan-08.pdf
Update on QSF found here: http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/Fis...-Sep28-2011.pdf
Where are we now:
Beaver Lake is now @ "0" fish in the 50 cm. range. If I recall correctly, it was 15% 2 years ago, 3% last year and now is @ "0".
A four year old fish from Beaver maybe 45 cms [1.5>2 lb] or so TODAY which is in contrast to the fish from 2004>08 which would have weighed 6>12 lbs. & been 65 cms. or 25"+
Clearly there are not enough groceries to sustain the growth required by the QSF Policy.
How do you get more groceries. Tis kinda simple - you reduce stocking numbers - - A LOT - a small step change will not do it. A reduction to <1,000 fish as I asked for 4+ years ago may not cut it.
What can you do:
Express your concern. Time is of the essence. If no changes are proposed by October 30, 2011, the regulations for Beaver will stay till 2013 or later.
What do I think should happen:
1] reduce stocking numbers till growth rate returns
2] increase maximum size limit to 50 cms. to match other QSF lakes in the area
3] reduce limit to one over 50 cm.
4] Align the closing/opening dates November 1>April 15 with the other QSF Lakes in the area.
regards,
Don
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Bob...
What is a PGK?
Don
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Folks,
I learned that like the Police Outpost Lake "Quality" designation stays for now according to Matt Besko, Acting Head, Allocation and Use Fisheries Allocation and Use of Alberta's Sustainable Resources Development.
regards,
Don
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Folks,
Looks like there is a number of solutions/ideas put forward to explain cutthroat population reduction.
1] Dewatering
2] Disease
3] Other Invasive Fish [ brook trout]
4] Enforcement or lack there of or excess of
5] Too many otters
6] Professionals should be the ones looking after things
7] Spend money on land protection
I'm sure that they may be other causes.
Anybody got other ideas?
Don
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420FLYFISHIN,
The illegal actions were reported by another angler.
Report a Poacher works!!!
Don
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Found in the Rocky Mountaineer Tuesday Sept. 27 edition.
$3,000 beats the old record as far as I can see by $500.
Don
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mrmagnan,
Need you email address - will send you the PDF file.,
Don
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Seriously? You show up now but not when we were having an 8 page discussion about how to raise funds and protect fish? Disease and 'lack of water' haha, what are you gonna do, stand at the top of the oldman with a garden hose? I got an idea for you Don, leave it to the people who know what the hell they're talking about.
Ah PGK,
You been drinking again?
Don
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jayhad's suggestion/belief that spending money/efforts on Cuts would be a great idea.
SO
Let's make a list of anything that should/could be done.
Pie thinking is the sky thinking is good and no idea should be seen as farfetched.
For me there are only a few things that will permanently kill fish.
Disease and lack of water.
So the items on my list would include:
* All anglers must disinfect their waders to prevent disease. Foreign anglers would have their wading gear confiscated @ the borders and have it returned when they leave.
* Removal of water from possible cutthroat bearing streams would be illegal
catch ya'
Don
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Folks,
Got a email from Buchwald. Closure of tribs. is only below the dam.
Looks like my paranoia got the better of me.
The present river closure starts Feb 28 and ends May 20 or about 11 weeks. The new proposal for to increase the closure from Oct 15>May 14 or 28 weeks.
Curiously, SRD's proposal doesn't limit bait but allows maggots which seems to reinforce the targeting of whitefish which they are trying to protect. Go figure!
Buchwald says " ASRD will doing a public review of the existing Red Deer River management plan for the section of river from the Dickson Dam to the Tolman Bridge. As part of this review the management of walleye will be looked and the potential for limited harvest will be examined. Brown trout numbers below the dam will always be limited, since suitable habitat is also limited. The 2005 flood had a negative effect on at least two years of recruitment (2004 and 2005).
Don
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Folks,
Here is the exact wording from the Gov't Survey.
20. Do you agree with Sustainable Resource Development’s proposal to apply the Red Deer
River regulations to all main stem tributaries?
a) Strongly Agree
Agree c) Disagree d) Strongly Disagree e) No Opinion f) Don’t KnowLooks like it means what it says. ALL TRIBUTARIES. Little Red, Fallen Timber, S. Raven, Stauffer Creek, and on and on.
There is a whole bunch of stuff going on that does make one wonder.
1] Why a Regional Biologist would start this 1 month before he retires?
2] Why the survey didn't ID are area as Buchwalds only?
3] Why other Fisheries Technicians in the Rocky Office made comments about closing all waters where fish may spawn?
4] Why are fishermen blamed for the whitefish/brown disappearance when there is no evidence that this happens? I've never seen a dead fish in anglers hands in the 25 years I've fished the Red Deer in the fall/winter.
There is no question that browns and whites are in trouble but are anglers the issue or are there other many larger forces @ work?
Blame anglers, it's easy - doesn't require any expenditure of effort or $'s. And the best part, some people get sucked in.
Don
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jayjj11,
Just so that you understand the problem. Walleye have been protected in the Red Deer system for a number of years thereby exploding their population. Walleye are predators, the browns and whitefish are the prey.
So in order to maintain balance, apparently SRD blames the fishermen for taking fish from the river and wants to reduce the impact of legal fishermen to "0". In the 20+ years I've fished the Red Deer River, I've yet to see my first dead fish dangling from a fisherman's hand.
And the reason for the closure to protect the brown trout and whitefish spawning makes sense if places like Stauffer Creek had any whitefish. Well, I guess they do, maybe one or two near the S. Raven Junction. Brown trout spawning areas are impacted a lot more by migration problems caused by beaver.
You cannot manage any habitat for a single species. You must consider all impacts and manage them accordingly. To blame fishermen for lousy SRD management is just plain stupid.
And yep - there's Otters in the Red Deer Too!! Like all predators, they should be controlled to balance them with their prey.
jayjj11 - you kinda remind me a a young biologist I meet below the Oldman dam who was gushing about catching all the big bull trout below the dam and carrying them above. I asked him how many whitefish were also transferred. He just couldn't get the fact that predators do well when they have prey. Ever wonder why farmers don't graze cows on summerfallow. They'd starve to death.
catch ya'
Don
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Folks,
For those that didn't pay attention like me, SRD's Vance Buchwald is proposing a closure of main stem tributaries to the Red Deer October 15>May 14.
There goes Stauffer, South Raven Fallen Timber, Little Red and on and on,
Obviously a well thought out proposal.
Express your outrage!!!
to Vance.Buchwald@gov.ab.ca
If you wish to read and respond to the whole questionnaire, give me a shout donandersen[dot]bamboorods.ca and I'll send you a copy of the PDF.
PS: for all those Calgary guys who generally don't give a crap - browns/whitefish are spawning in the Bow and Crow drainages. Are those places next?
Don
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Dave,
Remember your audience - keep words to single syllables if possible. But I'm thinking that signs are really not effective. There are 4 signs @ Beaver Lake telling you what you can or can't do. About 50% of all angling effort was illegal several weeks ago. And it's blatant. Watched 3 your guys bait fish for hours along the south shore. No one cared. I didn't phone - cell won't work.
Frankly, society likes illegal activity otherwise they'd fix it or to put it another way - Is Morton still in the running?
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Guys,
I've had the sad experience of following an eltrofishing boat. The fishing went from great to lousy and stayed that way for several days.
Find somewhere else to fish.
Don
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Anti-static bags. Neat concept.
Most bags I know give me all sorts of static.
Anti-static bags are for those that are wired.
You, like me, aren't ever plugged in let alone wired.
Don
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Speyghillie,
What part of Alberta you getting eels in? Always wanted to catch and eat some of them.
And how big are the trout each otter takes?
regards,
Don
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Smitty,
One thing that would be really neat some day is add up all the impacts on trout. Those impacts that can be mitigated and those that can't.
Should we get all excited about poaching, logging, bad land use practices, roads, disease and not be concerned about predators. Hardly.
I see predation as just one more impact and in this case a new one that is presently not regulated or controlled. Should it be - well if I was a trout - I'd probably vote for some type of control.
Frankly, I'll go with the trout on this one.
And with that, I'm packing to disappear into cutthroat country.
catch ya'
Don
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Harps,
There is no question that otters will impact trout streams. To what extent, I haven't a clue and frankly neither do any of the people posting on this site or for that matter our biologists. How can you measure their impact? What is for sure is that it does occur. There is no question that Otters are increasing their range. Depending on your view point this can bee seen as a good or bad thing. What is beyond question is that it is happening and it is impacting trout streams. What should be done about it will be left to folks who decide these things. What we can do however is to provide the folks who decide these things with the required information to make the choices. Sticking out heads in the sand and saying Hallelujah another Predator Species has arrived just doesn't cut it.
As far as old school thinking. Gotta confess you are partly right there. I'm getting sick and tired of watching ravens kill the song birds. Raven without question have increased their range at the expense of other critters who are now raven *hit. And I'm really old school when it comes to human predation. But my wife tells me that I can't solve the worlds problems by shooting them although the next little small misunderstood critter that paints my fence, breaks my windows or kicks the crap outta my truck, I'd like to hang his hide over my back fence.
Hawg....
As Otters are not native to the landscapes they are using now, they must by seen as invasive species. See definition below.
The first definition, the most used, applies to non-indigenous species, or "non-native", plants or animals that adversely affect the habitats and bioregions they invade economically, environmentally, and/or ecologically. They disrupt by dominating a region, wilderness areas, particular habitats, and/or wildland-urban interface land from loss of natural controls (i.e.: predators or herbivores).
Now the real question is: Do we inform the biologist who need the info to make intellect choices to manage any species or just push words back and forth.
regards,
Don
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Folks,
Otters are a fur bearer and are taken as such in Northern Alberta. There seemed to be a big hole in their range. I've sen them in Yellowstone and Grand Prairie area. This makes the hole in their range about 500 miles long. They are filling the hole.
Otters are just one more impact in our fisheries that is not managed @ this point in Central and Southern Alberta.
I don't worry too much about stocked pond lakes. What does concern me are species that are having troubles. Bull Trout in a number of places have their spawning ares protected through regulation as is the case with species like the Swan Lake lake trout. Don't think Otters can read. They will utilize concentrated food resources till the food resources are depleted. Such is the life of a predator.
Now for discussions sake say that we have about 200 Otters in Central Alberta and they eat 3 lbs/day each. So what does that mean. Lets say that the average fish weighs <3/4 lb. so each otter eats about 4 fish/day or 600 for the bunch of them. To put that in perspective, that's about 8 miles of Prairie Creek/day EVERY DAY!!!
And we could argue forever how many Otters there are. One trapper, I've been told, removed his beaver traps after catching a bunch of otters. This occurred in a marginal trout stream. This suggests that there is a pile of Otters out there.
That is the reason I'm concerned.
regards,
Don
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OH Crap - they are already here.
Folks,
In the 56 years I've fished all over western Alberta I never saw an otter till 3 years ago. Now the count is 17. So for 53 years, the graph registers "0" - in 3 years it goes to 17. And I've seeing them in a whole lot of places. Both streams and lakes. What does it mean. Well, Otters like to eat - fish mostly - trout, whitefish, suckers et al. But by in large whatever they can catch. Well, I've seen otters four different occasions on Ironside Pond reflecting, I would guess, their fondness for trout.
How many do they eat depends on their size and whether or not they are feeding young. One estimate is 5 lbs./otter/day. Am I the only one seeing them - hardly. One nice thing about living in the area is I know people who are in the bush a lot. They are also seeing them. A friend saw a group of 5 cross the Pr. Creek road, others have been seen from east of Spruceview to Buck Lake. I've been told of Otters on the Carbondale and well as some tribs to the Elk in BC. Frankly, they are everywhere and they are spreading.
What’s the concern? Well, for some folks not much but there are hot spots of concern in the Rocky area where some species of trout exist and are barely holding on. The Swan Lake lake trout is an example followed by bull trout spawning areas located in CutOff Creek or Falls creek. The concentration of bull trout or lake trout in the spawning areas makes the population vulnerable. As far as the fishermen, the over-wintering pools for cutthroat are really @ risk as well as brown trout spawning areas in both Pr. Creek and Stauffer Creek.
What is to be done? Well, I contacted SRD both fisheries and wildlife folks. The Fisheries folks told me that monitoring was a low priority as neither staffing or resources was available although if such became available streams would be done before lakes. The Wildlife Biologist told me that they need a management plan for the otters in our area. She went along to say “It would be completely irresponsible management to proceed with possible changes to harvest regimes & management strategies without first establishing otter population trend, potential impacts on fish populations (if any) etc.”
But, and this is where it gets weird. Trappers in Alberta and elsewhere have taken Otters for about 200 years without a management plan. None when the Hudson Bay Company ran the trapping, none where the Federal Govt ran trapping and none for Alberta’s Provincial Govt who have been able to increase the population of Otters w/o a plan. In fact, in Alberta, there are no management plans for any furbearer. Good thing or bad – I haven’t a clue. Looks like the Beavers and Otters are doing OK So the question: Is a management plan really necessary? Facing the fact of decreased staffing and resources within SRD and the fact that Otters seem to be doing quite well w/o a plan one is left to wonder why a plan is needed.
For a article on the issue written by the Wildlife Biologist, see: http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/ ... un2010.pdf
And what can you do? The Biologist needs to know about Otters. She’s not in the field like you and I. Lets tell her. She asks for sightings, location and pictures and send to Anne Hubbs or Chiara Feder at 403-845-8230 Anne Hubbs <Anne.Hubbs@gov.ab.ca>
Thank folks - we need to have something done about the infestation.
regards,
Don
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Garlicmarshmello...
Got a Major Rod in the basement. Was my first rod. It is solid glass spinning rod. It's now over 55 years old.
They were cheap and available. If I recall correctly, the rod was $3.95 as was the reel. Took me all year to save up the money.
Don
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soggysocks is bang on with his advice.
Outdoorsmen for eons have understood that scents [ or the lack of them] is critical to success. Trappers use a host of products for scent attaraction see: http://www.longcreektrappingsupplies.com/i...t=2a&page=1
Cabellas lists 218 products for scent control.
Rubbing with dirt is just a touch along the way to what bow hunters go through to mask their odors.
I'm not sure that odor control is all that big an issue with dries. Nymphs in slow water, probably, in stillwater clearly.
Stinky bugs don't do as well.
Don
A Mystery
in General Chat - Not Fishing Related (NFR)
Posted
Folks,
Does anyone know which company owns this logo? Found it on ACA info signs all along Stauffer Creek.
Don