alhuger Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 All, Lately I’ve been working diligently on getting my form sorted out with a Skagit cast. I judge my casts not by their distance as much as by their consistency. By this I mean I select a distance and attempt to consistently put the line out to the mark and have it land in ‘fishing’ condition. Fishing condition to me means the fly lands straight and the line is not piled up or otherwise looking bizarre. My casts are typical Skagit casts and a double (cack handed and regular) spey. I am not generally performing simple roll casts unless I am slumming it with an indy :> When practicing I am using a compact Skagits and rods in lengths from 12.6 to 13 feet. I am fishing them with 12-15 feet of sinking tip (typically type 3) and around 3 feet of leader and a 4-5 inch fly. I was attempting to fish a longer leader with smaller flies but I was corrected on this (my turnover sucked). Typically I am managing consistency with about 60-70 feet in running water and that is after I get my rhythm. I am judging this by knowing that my head/leader/fly is going to be 3 times rod length (I rig it as such) and then count how many rod lengths I am shooting by managing two loops roughly the length of my rod. In a casting pond where I do not have to manage line I can hit 75-80 with some regularity. I am using distance here as a marker because I know my line soars when my form is right and *hit falls apart when my form is poor. My goal this coming year is to be able to fish up to 80 feet on both banks with real solid consistency. How is everyone else who is new to the spey coming along? Anyone have any lessons they’ve learned that they can share which helped them better their cast? al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Al, The skagit was never meant to be a long distance cast, so i'd be far less worried about the distance you're getting out of it. It was meant to be able to pull up a very big fly with a very big sink tip, and get it fishing again. If you're looking for more distance, think of using a Scandi or Shorthead. These will handle type 3's with ease, and depending on fly sizes and weight, up to 15 feet of type 8. In my mind and experience, i'd rather use a shorthead when using a type 3 or 6, and a skagit for anything heavier. If you're practicing for a certain place and time of year, then find out some knowledge about what tips are average, and be able to cast consistently with these two different shooting heads, and you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I have to admit I haven't fished the DH rod much in the last few months. I have been speycasting the single-hand rod a lot, though. While I can "turbo spey" the SH rod to distances that aren't very fishable I've also been improvising double speys and snap t's so that I can effectively fish anywhere from 5 feet to 50 feet around me. One thing I did learn about the DH rod is that I prefer casting a Scandi head above all else. Skagit is a useful tool for fishing Big Uglies at depth, but I prefer the finesse of the Scandi. Or maybe it's just that the Scandi heads I have are more dialed in for my rods than the Skagit heads. Or my Skagit casting could just plain suck. Also, I've come to the conclusion that anything more than a 4, 5 or 6 wt DH rod is complete overkill on the Bow. Sure you can do it, but it just feels ridiculous to me. Yeah I know some people are going to disagree with this, but after fishing a 5 wt DH rod and 7 wt SH exclusively for the past few months my heavier DH rod will only come out for practice and when I head out west to fish for anadromous species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I've learned that I need lessons. I'm catching fish with the rod, but I really need to work on the anchor placement. Anyone getting out this weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I've learned that I need lessons. I'm catching fish with the rod, but I really need to work on the anchor placement. Anyone getting out this weekend? I think Whistler (Brian Niska) said if the weather is nice enough around the Fly Fishing Expo that he'd put on a clinic. Gordon will probably be back in the spring to put on a clinic as well. Can't go wrong either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 cast is coming along great! i totally agree with headscan i love scandi, skagit get me by iwth the big tips n flies (was tossin em 70+ no prob last sunday bully fishin) i still need work thats forsure and i find when i get lazy some of teh casts go too hell and i pull my anchor but im totally happy for were i am at after a year with the double hander! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhuger Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Al, The skagit was never meant to be a long distance cast, so i'd be far less worried about the distance you're getting out of it. It was meant to be able to pull up a very big fly with a very big sink tip, and get it fishing again. If you're looking for more distance, think of using a Scandi or Shorthead. These will handle type 3's with ease, and depending on fly sizes and weight, up to 15 feet of type 8. In my mind and experience, i'd rather use a shorthead when using a type 3 or 6, and a skagit for anything heavier. If you're practicing for a certain place and time of year, then find out some knowledge about what tips are average, and be able to cast consistently with these two different shooting heads, and you'll be fine. Yeh, I hear you. I use distance as an indicator that I have my form sorted out, nothing more. That being said I have fished this year where distance did matter and I did need long casts. I like casting scandi but I generally dislike bringing along multiple lines. I like the compact skagit right now as it's pretty utilitarian for me. I will certainly end up fishing the scandi again as well but right now I am really digging the compact. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Which rods and compact heads are you using, Al? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Yeh, I hear you. I use distance as an indicator that I have my form sorted out, nothing more. That being said I have fished this year where distance did matter and I did need long casts. I like casting scandi but I generally dislike bringing along multiple lines. I like the compact skagit right now as it's pretty utilitarian for me. I will certainly end up fishing the scandi again as well but right now I am really digging the compact. al Though distance is a great indicator, i think being able to shoot line in general, having your anchor be exactly where you want it to be, and a nice loop is a better indicator. Eventually, your rod and skagit will not be able to cast any further (though you might be able to get a lot more using a different line setup), and you'll think your not getting any better. Sounds like you're enjoying yourself, and went fishing with it and had a good time...exactly what we all would want anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhuger Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Though distance is a great indicator, i think being able to shoot line in general, having your anchor be exactly where you want it to be, and a nice loop is a better indicator. Eventually, your rod and skagit will not be able to cast any further (though you might be able to get a lot more using a different line setup), and you'll think your not getting any better. Sounds like you're enjoying yourself, and went fishing with it and had a good time...exactly what we all would want anyway! I agree, I should actually spend allot more time watching my anchor and my loop. When I do my casting picks up, I admit I am a bit distance fixated :> I am fishing it and enjoying it but I've only been at spey casting this year (and only fly fishing for 3) and it's like drinking from a fire hose. I love it though. I just wish I could fish coastal rivers every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhuger Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Which rods and compact heads are you using, Al? Hey Greg, A DC TFO 5/6 and a Sage 7 series Z-Axis 7136 with an Airflow Compact Skagit 420 and 480 respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 The Z is a cannon with shortheads and skagits, i've got the 9143..would like to try the TCX, but didn't get a chance to on the river yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhuger Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 The Z is a cannon with shortheads and skagits, i've got the 9143..would like to try the TCX, but didn't get a chance to on the river yet Yeh I am a big fan. I have a hard time though trying to get it to cast long lengths of T14 though. I suppose I could go up in grainage on my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 It seems those rods (7136), like to be loaded deep for Skagit casting, then they really let loose... It might take 550 grains or even more, to get it blasting out there with longer T-14 tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhuger Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 It seems those rods (7136), like to be loaded deep for Skagit casting, then they really let loose... It might take 550 grains or even more, to get it blasting out there with longer T-14 tips. Could do, I will give it a shot. Brian also suggested that this rod might be a bit soft tipped to pick them up well. I am going to give the higher grain a shot for sure. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 That may be why casters are really graining it up with the Skagits heads, too get down too the power in the rods lower sections...I have a similar situation with my 7116 which is a bit soft in the tip. When lined very lightly, it throws real nice loops with Scandi heads, but it needed a lot more grains to Skagit cast well, to get the rod loading from the butt. With your current line set up at 480grains, the soft tip may not be giving you the sensitivity to time your casts, place your anchors and load your rod consistently. Loading the rod deeper may help with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 i was told alot of sages and otehr sticks with softer tips might and do cast better if u lop 4-6 inches off the tip of your rod..... i know it can be hard too convince yourself too do so. but it will stiffen up your rod..... going higher in the grainage too might also work but i wouldnt step it bigtime. if you are chucking a 480 maybe try the next line size up from that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 The old greenys and brown rods were the ones you were told to lop the tip off..don't do it with the Gen 5 ones. There probably isn't a stiffer rod on the market then the TCX, so you'd be silly to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistler Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 yes it is a good trick with the older Sages which were way to soggy in the tip for my liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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