Time To License Guides??

[Neil Waugh]

An interesting discussion took place at Saturday's Fisheries Roundtable in Edmonton on Alberta fishing guide licenses. And in particular the Fernie and Cranbrook guys who continue to run our rivers while Albertans are shut out of the East Kootenays. Or are forced to pay the $20-a-day rod tax.

So is it time to register guides? If nothing else than to kick the BC clowns off our rivers until Gordo drops the discrimatory classified river fees. Morton in his speech also noted that he's feeling the pressure to retaliate in some way. He certainly has my vote.

[Guest bigbadbrent]

could care less about guides, time to make an out of province licence cost triple what we pay, considering that they pay the exact same that we do for an annual licence

[CDone]

You've opened a big 'Can O Worms' Neil. I have to agree with Brent, its time the Alberta Gov raised some fee's.

 

Having recently moved back from BC I still can't believe that our gov. (AB) has not used the same revenue generator as BC has, think of all the dollars that could be going back into general revenue, paying for all those swanky hotels and fancy business meals. If there was some guarantee that guide licenses & license fee increases for both residents and non-residents went back into the resource I would be more than happy to pay any extra either here or in BC.

 

Will licensing guides result in them having to have insurance, first aid, & general water knowledge? I think this would be more important than any fee increases in the end.

 

Colin

[TJKennerd]

Absolutely. All guides (resident and non-resident) should be registered and meet basic criteria. The best non-resident rule I have heard of is from the states (can't remember which one) but the deal is you pay whatever your state charges non-residents. All our rivers should be classified. Make them pay whatever they expect us to.

[Wanny]

could care less about guides, time to make an out of province licence cost triple what we pay, considering that they pay the exact same that we do for an annual licence

 

Maybe except for students??? JJ.... I would have no problems paying more as a non resident.... i was shocked at the price the first time i bought one here.

 

Edit: oops sorry for the highjack

[kipper]

could care less about guides, time to make an out of province licence cost triple what we pay, considering that they pay the exact same that we do for an annual licence

 

Yes! I agree totally bigbradbent, currently out of province licence fees are way too cheap. I don't understand why someone from B.C. can get an annual licence for the same cost that residents are paying either. We should at least double the cost of the annual and bring in a limited 5 day, 3 day a 1 day licence structure for Canadian Residents at a considerable increase in fees.

[Tako]

could care less about guides, time to make an out of province licence cost triple what we pay, considering that they pay the exact same that we do for an annual licence

 

Bingo. Double, maybe not triple.

[Highlander]

As a BC resident, it costs me half as much for my licence in Alberta than even my basic resident licence in BC (with no steelhead/classified waters/salmon tags or anything).

 

I would be totally supportive if Alberta hiked license costs (even if it was only for BC residents :) ) for out of province anglers, provided all of the money went back into the resource (extra CO's, habitat improvements etc...).

[OneMoreLastCast]

I would support Licensing or registration of Guides to classify them as "Professionals" for the purpose of monitoring them and to make them accountable.

 

However, I don't believe it would be necessary to attach a fee of any type other than maybe administrative charges.

 

I don't, or would not, support anything that could be considered a cash grab. It should be about the fish and the fisheries, not about getting more money.

[kipper]

I would support Licensing or registration of Guides to classify them as "Professionals" for the purpose of monitoring them and to make them accountable.

 

However, I don't believe it would be necessary to attach a fee of any type other than maybe administrative charges.

 

I don't, or would not, support anything that could be considered a cash grab. It should be about the fish and the fisheries, not about getting more money.

totally..all the funds generated should go back to the resource..which would include protection - through enforcement, education and other Fisheries Management priorities...I would hope.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Jacking their price for licences is great but also ding em with special licence daily fees for fishing the Crow, Oldman and tribs, Bow and Tribs and for any managed fishery like walleye, sturgeon etc.

[jimbow]

yes register and license and charge a fee. only alberta resident allowed to guide on ab waters. institute insurance requirement and min stds for first aid etc.

[BRH]

I've got mixed emotions on this.

 

What is the point in licensing guides if all you're going to require is insurance, first aid and basic water knowledge? That would be like issuing driver's licenses to folks based on the fact that they can walk, breathe, and know the basic traffic rules. If this is all your licensing requirements are going to be then I'd be opposed. It would boil down to those who can afford to maintain the required certification. It does nothing about ensuring the ability of a guide to render services or use the resource responsibly.

 

If, by contrast you include in the criteria some level of demonstrated competency, then it might be worth further consideration.

 

I personally don't see the point in restricting guide licensing to Alberta residents. A guide is a guide, some are good some are bad, regardless of their place of residence. It may be the best guide on the Red Deer River is a fellow from Kelowna. To deny him the opportunity to guide on the Red Deer simply because of his place of residence seems to me to be very narrow-minded. Instead, why isn't licensing considered on a two-tiered structure? Anyone able and capable of meeting the criteria of the guide license may obtain a guide license while booking fishing trips in Alberta requires a different level of licensing which could include the Alberta Resident stipulation. That's a licensing structure I could buy in to.

 

Having said that, it is ridiculous to attempt to compare Alberta fisheries with resource management in other jurisdictions. BC and other jurisdictions actually have a fisheries management. Alberta does not. Alberta's fisheries management is not one of managing the fisheries but rather the management of people.

 

There seems to be a general dissatisfaction with guides in this forum (unless of course you're the in-house favourite). I'm not sure where this stems from but I find this fixation exceedingly interesting. I would think, as a broad spectrum of anglers, it would be infinitely more productive to spend your energies on securing better access to our fisheries than targeting the guiding fraternity.

[Brownstone]

For sure, make guides get certified .. what keeps Joe Sixpack from saying he's a guide? make them get all the training etc.. keep Alberta water for Alberta guides .. with the regs now (none) Alberta must look awful attactive to out of province guides when a bad season hits BC, Montana, Idaho etc..each summer when i travel back east to fish salmon I pay 100 bucks for a non-resident license, I'm required to hire a guide to fish* , he/she is allowed to guide max. two anglers per trip .. its great revenue for the province and licensed guides

 

*LOOP HOLE - In lieu of a licensed guide you may fish with a direct family member ie. parent sibling or in law ..

[maxwell]

i am all for it!..... oddly enough i dig what brent is saying too!

[Tako]

Ya its like highlander says. I paid $37 for my straight license. Then you gotta add CW (never have) and steelhead stamp, and chinook stamp (only if you wanna keepum, I don't).....list goes on for stampage

 

I cross the border and pay $22 for everything in AB. ROCK ON! I figure it should be doubled, and stamps for vulnerable areas EG: those cutts that just got listed. Pay to play, and as long as they money goes to the right places, I'm down for it.

[Guest bigbadbrent]

26 dollars, 94 pennys now Tako...eat it!

[OneMoreLastCast]

Keep in mind that by certifying a person as a "Professional" guide and making them pay for insurance, GST number, etc. does not make that person a good guide.

 

By making it expensive to become and remain a Guide, might deter those people that are actually good guides. Make no mistake, being a guide is a tough way to earn a living and not many guides are living in the big houses on the hill, (if you know what I'm saying).

 

Rather than limit where a Guide resides, limit the number of guides allowed to be certified and use a Grandfather clause to allow the long time guides preference.

 

It would be a shame in my opinion to have only those that can afford to guide being out there. They would be more driven by the mighty dollar which could in turn hurt the fishery because if they don't already, they would definitely think they always deserve the right of way, etc.

 

I'd rather have a true "Trout Bum" that looks like they live and breath fishing show me around a stream I don't know and have paid top dollar to enjoy, than some fancy pants fresh off the rack fake guide wanna-be....

 

No offense to any fancy pants off the rack guides out there....

 

Just my thoughts.

[Harps]

So is it time to register guides? If nothing else than to kick the BC clowns off our rivers until Gordo drops the discrimatory classified river fees. Morton in his speech also noted that he's feeling the pressure to retaliate in some way. He certainly has my vote.

 

I haven't read any other replies

I just want to say...

Yes

Yes

Yes, License guides!

 

Maybe restrict numbers on waters where seen fit, but for now we should know who is making how much on our resources!

It's also another great way to add value to the environment.

Make all guide boats registered and plates of guide vehicles. Then officers could get an idea of who is out, and how often and with what numbers of people. Should be able to catch the un-registered guides this way, because people will want to be fishing good (often popular) waters.

 

 

While were at it.... I'd still like to see an East slope stamp or a fisheries knowledge test requirment with a licence.

[Highlander]

While were at it.... I'd still like to see an East slope stamp or a fisheries knowledge test requirment with a licence.

 

I'm not sure if it's the same in Alberta as it is in BC, but here we have had a long period of declining license sales. Whether that is the cost or fewer Alberta/out of Province anglers I don't know. While I would love for there to be a fisheries knowledge test, such a requirement would probably reduce licence sales even more. At this time, fishing needs more friends, not fewer.

 

The East Slope is a beautiful area, and I spent a three days fishing there last year. I plan on visiting again this year.

[rusty]

pseudo,

 

Guiding is like any other profession - it's a few bad apples wrecking it for most. Most guides I've run into on the river have been gracious, courteous, and respectful of the fact that they are making a living from something that belongs to everyone. Some guides I've run into will cut you off, talk down to you, and generally come across as if you're interfering with their livelihood. I think that your comment about the attitudes on this board is not particularly fair. I've heard good things about a lot of guides on here, and sentiment regarding Max and Brian on here is a direct reflection of the time they spend giving pointers and sharing info. Some guides have the exact opposite attitude - they're condescending and feel that because they spend 100 days a year collecting money from public property, they have more of a right to be there than those of us who don't. Myself and a lot of other people on here log as many days on the river, and I don't think this is something I'm making up.

 

I'm all for the licensing of guides, if for no other reason than there should be a minimum standard we hold people to for safety. I think it's a good idea to have a handle on how many guides there are out there, and I think that the majority of well-established guides in Calgary would be for it.

[rhuseby]

Just to stir the pot, what are you all proposing as the standards to be implemented for guide skills. Would you have to have a bunch of certifications and where would you get them. Who should be the licensing body.

[Spencer]

What a can of worms this is....

 

I am a Alberta born and raised guide living in SE B.C. and believe me when I say that the East Kootenay Angling Management Plan (EKAMP) is both a blessing and a curse and the imposition of more regulations in AB could be regarded the same.

 

The idea of more regulation is a layer cake of issues, socio-economic and environmental, one has to ask themselves why they want to see regulations imposed. Is there a noticeable decline in the health and quality of the fishery, or are you cranky that out of province anglers seem to be getting a break in AB with lax fee's and regulations.

 

Regulations, if from inception take to heart the health of a fishery then I am all for it, protect our resources for the future. Anyone who has caught a Cutt out of the Livingstone in the past couple of seasons has certainly come across a specimen that is missing a mandible or has ugly hook scars. Maybe we should implement mandatory fish handling certifications for any anglers wishing to fish a catch and release streams.

 

Although I am playing devils advocate I feeling strongly about this issue as I make my living in a heavily regulated area. Identify, clarify, plan appropriately and then act, the last thing we need is more "shot gun wedding" regulation...

[OneMoreLastCast]

You make some great points Cruiser and as long as we continue to view it as "Us" against "Them" in regards to our licensing, legislation, etc. instead of focusing on what is best for "Our" fisheries right here in Alberta, we will continue to spin our wheels.

 

Does anyone really think the people in B.C. that make the decisions on what is best for their fisheries, even give two hoots what we are doing here in Alberta, or anywhere else for that matter. They do their studies and do what they feel is best for the fish and for the people that catch them.

 

Sure I'd like to see the fees raised for out of Province Anglers because it is just the way it should be done, not because they charge us more.

 

Registering Guides sounds great in theory, but to implement a system would take time and money. In the end, we would all most likely end up paying more and the cost to be a Professional Guide would chase some of the "Good" Guides away, leaving the river to the people that can afford to be a Guide.

 

Don't under estimate the impact and influence local guides have on a water system. It is their livelyhood and to continue making a living off it, they must ensure it remains a good place for clients to spend their money. Not to mention that obviously the extra expense for running their operation would be added to the cost for a day of guiding.....

 

That being said, I will contradict myself and say that I do support some kind of Registration of Guides, as long as it wouldn't chase the "Right" people away from the profession.

[Neil Waugh]

Yesterday at the legislature when Steady Eddie was rolling out TILMA - his deal with Gouging Gordo to roll back trade and labour barriers between the two provinces - I put the classified waters question to him.

And he said this:

"It's something that's not fair."

Couldn't agree more. Especially if you made a good faith investment in East Kootenay recreational property.

But Ron Stevens jumped in and said it wasn't something the Alberta PCs were likely going to do anything about.

Stelmach also revealed that they had a go round on the issue at the "historic" joint cabinet minister a couple years back.

One of the bureaucrats at the earlier technical briefing also sugggested that the $20-a-day rod fees are something that could be used to haul the BC Liberals before the TILMA disputes panel. When and if it's ever created.

Hopefully it doesn't work the other way and Campbell gets to export his 2.4 cents a litre "green" tax that he's going to slap dim B.C. votrs with on Canada Day east of the Rockies.

Now that would be unfair.