Newbie Spey Caster

[JMasson]

First, I'd like to say that I am a complete novice when it comes to spey casting. I use some of the casts with my single-hand rods when the situations call for it. Anyways, I have a trip planned to go to New Brunswick for some atlantic salmon this year and also have a steelhead/ pacific salmon trip in the works...I'd like to carry a spey rod with me. I've seen where I'll be fishing out east and the river is BIG to say the least...it would be really hard work with a single-hand rod.

 

Now, what do you all think would be a good rod. I was thinking something in the 12'- 13' range...probably 12'-6". Bear in mind that I won't be using the rod a whole lot...couple-three times a year maybe and when I fish the Bow (which is not that often, maybe once a year). I'm in the preliminary stages right now and I'm basically just shopping and looking for opinions. I live in Edmonton but wouldn't mind driving to Calgary and picking a rod up if it's worth it. I have a reel picked out for it...actually, I've got two reels picked out so I'll have to decide eventually. Later on I'll probably ask for more advice and help when it comes to lines and also casting.

 

Thanks for any help!

 

James

[maxwell]

hey duide whats your pricerange? any manufatcurer your prefer over others...what reel do you have picked out?

[JMasson]

I was looking at probably $250-300 max. just because it's not a rod I see myself using more than a handful of times each year. I'm looking at either a Ross of a Pfleuger for reels. I have a couple TFO single-handers that I actually really like so I was kind of thinking about a TFO spey rod. I like the warranty and unlike others I have only ever had one break on me...and that was after I hit a dog that was attacking me with it.

 

James

[maxwell]

hey dude tfos are in teh 300+ plus range at most flyshops..ide say check ebay or some online shops for a deal...

[cheeler]

My Deer Creek 5/6 was around $350 retail, no difference between the shops that carry it around town. Probably the lowest priced rod you're going to find, barring a sale or deal at the fly fishing show. If you're going to look for used, try asking in the forums at speypages.com or one of the other sites based in BC and the PNW.

 

For reels, finding a pflueger president in 2012 is hard in western Canada. Wholesale stocks them, but has been out for a long time, but you might be able to find a summit or trion easier. I ordered out of the states, but it looks to be backordered down there too.

[Whistler]

I would check out the echo classic series. Great casting rod and well within your price range

[toolman]

Welcome Whistler...

[ogilvie]

There are many fine rods on the market...but I would recommend that you invest a bit more wisely in your first rod. That first rod needs to be a friendly stick that opens a good window into the world of Spey Casting and fishing with Two Handed rods. The reel isn't or doesn't have the same criteria on demands. However, the need for a good and specific rod/line match is above all needed. And as you can see from the many threads on many sites there is so much conjecture about good lines for certain casters. The easiest line I have come across for beginners and more seasoned casters is the Beulah Elixir line and the Vision lines,followed by the Skagit lines and heads from different manufacturers.

I would match either the 11'6" or the 12'7" Beulah rods with their lines for an effective set-up.The rods are in the $500 and the lines $85...

I did fish the Miramichi and several other Rivers this past summer and used both the Beulah 12'7" and the Snowbee 12'6" Tamar rods (both 7/8 wts)for that area. And I have landed many Chrome Chinook 30 lbs in Island Rivers with each . These rods are plenty big enough and did make many NewBrunswickers show a contoured face!! You see, these fellows still like 2 pc.9' rods for some reason,as do many Salmon fishers in the UK do (those that use One handed rods).

Most disturbing though,is that I have also seen so many first time buyers fish big Salmon here in BC only to be disapponinted with a broken cheap rod.

 

Have fun

C

[Guest bigbadbrent]

Don't skimp on a rod if you're looking for chrome, let alone atlantic. You'll never know when you're going to hit a 20lb+ fish.

 

You're looking at least for an 8 weight, that'd be pretty standard, anything smaller you won't have the backbone to land the fish, let alone the trust that you won't break it.

[JMasson]

So, it looks like I've got more hunting and decisions to make. I figured a 7 or 8 wt would be the minimum I was looking at. What are the pros and cons of a longer rod versus a shorter rod? Is it mostly to do with needing more room to cast? I've taken a peak at Echo rods like Whistler suggested. I've used their single-hand rods in the past and was quite impressed. I also took a look at the Beulah rods and liked what I could see from their web page. One more question...are there benefits of having a fast action rod over a medium action rod? Or is it pretty much the same as single-handers?

 

Thanks for the help so far.

 

James

[ogilvie]

Unfortunately much of it boils down to the Male ego and the fact that the fish are always on the other side of the river!! The longer rods are generally used for larger waterways and surprisingly throughout the world for longlines,small dry flies and streamers. On the Pacific North West regions of North America where the rivers are faster,deeper and prone to eratic water conditions and of course bigger fish,the rods tend to be on the shorter side and very powerful...flies larger and definitely heavier! Thus the developement of the modern day Skagit Style of casting. Of course many of the Larger West Coast waterways such as the Thompson,Skeena(system),Fraser,Columbia,and many others often require longer rods to propel out those big flies on heavy sinking tips...or smaller very heavy flies that fish near the bottom. East of the Rockies there are fewer needs for the 15-18' rods...14 and shorter are the demand. I have used many larger sticks in Ontario and the Maritimes but feel that the need for anything over 14' is not necessary. The rods speed(moderate or fast) is not such an issue. As in single handed rods,softer action rods are or have a need for a bit more patience in the cast...the fast action rods are typically more sensitive in hand and require a bit more skill to master but in the correct hands are a thing of beauty. The UK Salmon casters like longer slower action rods ,they use longer bellied lines and rarely use as heavy flies as we do. You fishers in Alberta have some very nice rivers that can be fished very well with mid-length rods from 10'6"-14'...your line choices are less demanding and likely the learning curve is less complex.The same applies to the Great Lakes region of the Continent...

Once you have picked up your fundamental skill set you are able to fish anywhere and under almost all conditions.

If you get a chance do get out to One of the Casting Clinics in your area soon..and if you can get by the show...

C

[JMasson]

Was planning on coming to the show but I can't say that I'll be ready to make any purchases just yet. I probably won't be ready to buy anything until probably March or April...unless I manage to find a great deal that I can't pass up. I like to take my time and make a purchase that I won't be upset with in a month or two.

 

Now, I've been reading quite a bit lately and I think I have some of the basic concepts between the two different styles of casting and the two seperate lines. The traditional spey casting used a long double-taper lines (I ready somewhere between 80 and 120 feet). Since you don't strip in any line before the cast, there is no visible pause like you see in skagit styles casting...am I somewhere near right so far?

 

Another question...would you say it's easier for a beginner to learn the Skagit style or Scandi style casting? I hope I just didn't use "Scandi" in the wrong context....I just wanted to be cool like the thread says.

 

I haven't felt like a complete novice since I was about 10 and got coordinated enough to make half decent single-hand casts. I hope you guys don't mind all the questions and thanks for the help.

 

James

[headscan]

If you can wait until April maybe it would be best to take Gordon's (Speyghillie) course. He said that he'll have a variety of sticks and lines with him. That way you can try out some different lines and rod actions to see which you prefer. If you don't want to wait that long, the Beulah rods with Elixir lines are pretty forgiving I've found. I've had a couple days on the water with mine and zero frustration so far.

 

You might also want to pick up a book like Simon Gawesworth's Spey Casting (Fish Tales and Westwinds carry it). Lots of big, clear pictures and he also covers a bit of Scandi and Skagit stuff. There are also some good videos out like Rio's Modern Spey Casting.

 

As for reels, from one novice to another, make sure it has lots of capacity. These lines have way more diameter than what you're used to with a single-handed rod. If you think a reel is big enough, it probably isn't (a lesson I learned the hard way) and if you think it's a bit too big, it's probably just right. I put my Elixir 6/7 line on a Nautilus 10 reel and that only gives me 200 yds of 20# backing. The Loop CLW 8thirteen is a decent high capacity reel for a reasonable price and has enough capacity for most lines.

[ogilvie]

I've been told by Snowbee UK that the New XSD 1112 Cassett Spey Reel will not be available until Late March...if you can ..Wait! We have had incredible success with the little brother the XSD780..that won best in test category in One of the Big UK groups. I have worked this reel on 40 lb. Ling cod off Nootka Island,30 lb. Chinook in Campbell River and 20 lb. Steelhead in fast water..notta problem..Period Salt or fresh. It's been a long time coming... a spey reel that has a great drag,lots of capacity and comes with 4 spools. $166 retail! Now if only they would do this in a high end version as they did in the 780?

[toolman]

At that price for a 11/12 reel and three extra spools, I want the first one you bring in too Canada.

[ogilvie]

it will have to be the 4th! For years we fought to get our hands on the Leeds 400D magnum,or was that the 240 D Magnum? regardless,finally there is One on the way that will fill the needs of MANY casters!

Sweet