Sinking Tip, Skaggit Or Traditional

[alhuger]

So in my basement this evening I've been cutting, weighing and rigging up type 8 sinking tips for the spring (or the next chinook). While doing this is and ruminating on the miserable weather outside I realized it's going to be a while before I get to try them. So, I'll post my question here so I can learn vicariously through some of your experiences. Are sinking tips easier to cast (and pull out of the water) with a skaggit head? I read in many places that people feel the skaggit lines are superior in this respect. Anyone have any opinion? I would be comparing against my multi-tip delta airflow which with tips is 52 feet before you hit running line. I have never cast a skaggit rig.

 

-al

[Guest bigbadbrent]

you really should be raising the line higher out of the water column before you commence your cast anyways (lift, then start your motion..its the first thing i've been taught and told by 4 different guys (one of whom lives on the Pitt river, probably would be the top river in canada if it had better access).....

 

I hated tossing Max's Skagit, as it's a lot more to do with technique, and if you have it down i can see you bombing the casts, but the scandi is definitly easier to toss

[SilverDoctor]

So in my basement this evening I've been cutting, weighing and rigging up type 8 sinking tips for the spring (or the next chinook). While doing this is and ruminating on the miserable weather outside I realized it's going to be a while before I get to try them. So, I'll post my question here so I can learn vicariously through some of your experiences. Are sinking tips easier to cast (and pull out of the water) with a skaggit head? I read in many places that people feel the skaggit lines are superior in this respect. Anyone have any opinion? I would be comparing against my multi-tip delta airflow which with tips is 52 feet before you hit running line. I have never cast a skaggit rig.

 

-al

For situations where I am fishing swinging flies shallow I use my Rio Windcutter with multi tips but if I want to go deep with a heavy sinking tip like the T series I've gotten to love my Skaggit set up. This is a short head system. Fires out a heavy tip with little effort. Had had a lot of fun with it this fall on the Bow swinging classic wets and emergers. Sinking tips can be difficult to break water only if you don't let them do a full swing drawing up to the surface on the swing. It's also important in a Skaggit set up to be sure you're line length (belly to tip) is 3 1/2 times your rod length. This not only for proper casting set up but also for proper line length to break water tension at the end of the lift. It also perfects a sustained anchor and continuous load on the rod. Skagit casting derives the majority of its casting energy through technique instead of hard physical exertion.

 

This is not to say that you cna only use sinking tips on a Skaggit set up but anything form floating, intermediate to sinking.

 

Designing a set up, think about the water, depth, flies and best fit (length, weight) for your rod. The line is built around the deepest depth you want to present your fly at (you can make shorter sink tips with cheaters). You'll need to know what length and weight of sinktip material you want to use to get you to that depth. You could use T-14, Type 3, 6, 8, etc., or any sink tip material to get to the same depth, but the T-14 will get there faster and with a shorter lengths which is why it's so popular with a lot of Skagit casters.

 

Every rod has an ideal casting weight window for you with this style. Your rod will Skagit cast best for you with a particular weight. As long as the tip weight you found is not too heavy, you can use heavier floating belly to add weight to your line if needed to get the total line weight to your ideal casting weight.

 

If you get into the line building game, you will find a grain scale necessary to design/build a perfect line.

Have fun, but be aware that you'll likely find yourself and yet another new spin on your hobby.

[speyghillie]

Hi Al,

Casting tips and big weighted flies can be horrible, not a style you see very often in the UK for a couple of reasons, having done a fair bit of Steelhead fishing in BC and spring fishing on the Spey, there is really not much difference in depth fished.

If you really want to fish tips and big flies, keeping it short and shooting line is the key, the lift must be really slow keeping tension on the line all the way through the sweep round.

If the fly has worked its way through the pool, point the rod tip straight at the fly with the tip almost touching the wate, lift th e rod slowly with constant tension on the line, try not to bend the rod to much as this will load the rod at the wrong time, just a nice slow lift and constant tension all the way through the sweep round, try not to dip the rod on the sweep round, keep it high.

 

In the UK the normal way to fish deep is to fish a full sunk line, this is much easier to cast and still gives you lots of depth and no need for weighted flies, and remember years ago they fished flies we would think were for sharks.

On a full sunk line its the same slow lift with the rod pointing at the fly and almost touching the water, but you just start with a roll casts straight down the wading line or directly below you to set the cast up, this brings the line onto the surface before going into a normal single spey, this way you only disturb the water close to the bank, and there is no hinge in the casting stroke like you sometimes get with heavy flies.

Hope this helps, and if you are going to the Calgary show give me a shout, or come by for a wee drop real Speyside.

Gordon.

[alhuger]

Guys,

 

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. They were very helpful. Gordon, I will be at the show for certain, are you coming with a vendor or on your own?

-al

[speyghillie]

Hi Al,

I will be taking a wee stand of my own, will have some stuff from the UK that will be available in Canada for the first time, with a full back up service in Canada, which up until now has not been available, not all Spey stuff, found a couple of new trout rods that i can't put down, come along and try some stuff out, even the Speyside stuff is not available in Canada.

Thanks Gordon.

[maxwell]

looking forward too it dude...

[ogilvie]

Both Gordon and I agree on the use of the full sinking(Sunk for the Brits and Scots)lines. The down side of the Sunk Line technique is that you have to master the drift more diligently in slower and not so deep water. However,there are some very sound points in using dark coloured sunk lines..the visibility factor from above(Fish Eye View) and the way the line actually tracks the fly so naturally. But you must be careful to manage your line's drift so as to not wrap around underwater snags.I have also found that when mending the full Sunk line there is less irratic impact on the fly itself during the drift from a mend...thus sight to fish is more constant! BTW,the full sunk line we(?) are talking about is actually a shooting line...like the Hardy Mach 1 ,Snowbee Scandanavian Short Head Spey and others where the head is about 45' long with a lighter coloured running line .The Scandanavian's have been doing this for some time,what we are also calling "Scando Style". Loop has a great selection of shooting line set-ups for Scando and Underhand Styles.

The Skagit system is entirely different...a large balloon body(27') that floats, having an attached tip of various densities. What the large body of the Skagit does is allow you to create short stroked casts with little effort,and at the same time pick-up big flies and heavy tips that are not too far down in the water column. So as you can imagine,with a 20' length of T14 off a 550 grain Skagit line on a 14' Two Hander,a simple and well timed Static pick-up will lift the entire line to the surface whereas you can then continue to complete the desired cast. Rod length is somewhat important, but I often will use a 10'6" Switch rod with a Skagit set-up,shortening the tip length and increaseing the timeing of the pick-up and forward stroke. But with the shorter rods you must be very clear about rod position and stop location..there is a tendency to bring the rod back to an almost vertical location off the shoulder resulting in the loop formation being directly behind body and ' Ouch"! on the forward stroke.

Have fun

C

[alhuger]

Both Gordon and I agree on the use of the full sinking(Sunk for the Brits and Scots)lines. The down side of the Sunk Line technique is that you have to master the drift more diligently in slower and not so deep water. However,there are some very sound points in using dark coloured sunk lines..the visibility factor from above(Fish Eye View) and the way the line actually tracks the fly so naturally. But you must be careful to manage your line's drift so as to not wrap around underwater snags.I have also found that when mending the full Sunk line there is less irratic impact on the fly itself during the drift from a mend...thus sight to fish is more constant! BTW,the full sunk line we(?) are talking about is actually a shooting line...like the Hardy Mach 1 ,Snowbee Scandanavian Short Head Spey and others where the head is about 45' long with a lighter coloured running line .The Scandanavian's have been doing this for some time,what we are also calling "Scando Style". Loop has a great selection of shooting line set-ups for Scando and Underhand Styles.

The Skagit system is entirely different...a large balloon body(27') that floats, having an attached tip of various densities. What the large body of the Skagit does is allow you to create short stroked casts with little effort,and at the same time pick-up big flies and heavy tips that are not too far down in the water column. So as you can imagine,with a 20' length of T14 off a 550 grain Skagit line on a 14' Two Hander,a simple and well timed Static pick-up will lift the entire line to the surface whereas you can then continue to complete the desired cast. Rod length is somewhat important, but I often will use a 10'6" Switch rod with a Skagit set-up,shortening the tip length and increaseing the timeing of the pick-up and forward stroke. But with the shorter rods you must be very clear about rod position and stop location..there is a tendency to bring the rod back to an almost vertical location off the shoulder resulting in the loop formation being directly behind body and ' Ouch"! on the forward stroke.

Have fun

C

 

Thanks Courtney that was super helpful.

[reevesr1]

Thanks Courtney that was super helpful.

Al,

I thought you went home to work? Get off the internet.

[alhuger]

Al,

I thought you went home to work? Get off the internet.

 

My job is the internet!!