toolman Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 http://www.looptackleusa.com/shop/product_...products_id=420 Rickr, maybe you should buy a two hander like Max's Yellow Loop 914-4 Then you will be Cool...just like us.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 yea dude we can be team yella and too thin i let this rod of mine sit in my basement for almost 3 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 King, Great idea. Gives me a goal in life: Be cool like Max and the King. Max, Do you honestly have a yellow rod? That's funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryfly Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Toolman: "Then you will be Cool...just like us...." Too funny. rickr: When you reach a certain age .. you know, sometime after 40 .. well, you are already as cool as it gets and so you don't need neon rods. Old is very cool. But just in case that does not work I wear funny hats that are so dorky they have to be cool. Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 Dryfly, I'd like to see you and ADC try slammin' a few of those 4 foot pike, with the two handers...Two hand overhead casting is easy and works great, so does forward Spey casts (roll casts)...Throws big flies, long distances with ease. I'll bring the rods/shooting heads and be your linesman/netman. That would be very cool... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryfly Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Dryfly, I'd like to see you and ADC try slammin' a few of those 4 foot pike, with the two handers...Two hand overhead casting is easy and works great, so does forward Spey casts (roll casts)...Throws big flies, long distances with ease. That'd be very cool...I'll bring the rods and be your linesman/netman. Oh crap TM, I already wear a hard hat, face mask and jock strap with a "cup" when chucking 7-inch, 5/0 streamers. I could be classed as a WMD if I used a spey rod for pike. Scary thought. I've been ignoring the spey trend. A tad confused--it takes so little. How the hell would you land (say) a 40-inch pike with a 13-foot rod? Yellow hard hat. Yellow spey rod. Orvis would be after us for endorsements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 I've been ignoring the spey trend. A tad confused--it takes so little. How the hell would you land (say) a 40-inch pike with a 13-foot rod? With a 12'6" or 13' 8wt. Spey, you can land those beasts faster than using a single hander. Spey rods give you the "upper hand".....(that's a joke)... Seriously though, when the fish comes in to be craddled, you point the rod behind you and swing em in, just like you do with a one hander. Casting big weight in a strong wind is not a problem with shooting heads, but you can use unweighted flies with sink tips to control fly depth. Unweighted flies on sink tips give you a more natural presentation (swim), better casting control and distance, with less risk of injury, then casting the weighed bombs on mono leaders...with yellow hard hats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 dude why dont we meet up this spring..u no the spot clive and greg and i will show ya hot kickassed speyrods are.....promise u will never go back...and neither will we Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryfly Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 maxwell .. Sorry, no can do. The spot is .. well, it's an awkward situation and generally not open .. small pond...blah blah blah. TM you wrote, "Seriously though, when the fish comes in to be craddled, you point the rod behind you and swing em in, just like you do with a one hander." Seriously though, I am having trouble understanding the physics here. A fishing rod is a "third class lever" in which "the effort expended is greater than the load, but the load is moved a greater distance. In other words, effort is sacrificed in order to gain distance." So we need more force than the resistance from the fish. And herein lies the rub. Okay, let's say I've hung a 20-pound pike in my PT and now have to yard it in close. But it's the last few meters where they get all pissy and want nothing to do with being near a PT. This is when they tow you around and generally are most unhappy with their immediate life situation. (I've a video tape--somewhere--of me hanging on to an 8-pound pike on a stiff rod. The pike is swimming up on the surface and TOWING a 16-foot Lund with two guys in it!!) I just can't see being able to manage a large pike with such a long rod. And this is aggravated in my case because I have skinny arms with little strength--in opposition to my not skinny overall body mass. (I'm in shape. Round is a shape. ) I've trouble moving a large pike with a stiff, 9-foot G. Loomis--that has the approximate stiffness of a 2 by 2 board. Can you enlighten me in the spey rod physics here. Heck, they've been around salmon rivers (like the Spey River) forever. And salmon kick up a fuss for sure. Wassup? Thanks and Cheers! Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 Well you have the advantages of bieng able to plant the rod butt into your hip and use two hands to haul hard. The pressure/directional changes that you can place on the fish will tire it quickly and you can really turn snouts around in a hurry. When the fish loads a Spey rod, it reacts and unloads back and you basically just become an anchor and let the rod do the work. However, the real advantage in using two handers, is in the casting control, using a variety of tips and large flys, great presentations at a distance which improves stealth, excellent line control and the fast, powerfull hook sets that are achievable at 75'-85' and even more, which are important when using large hooks for big fish. When you strip set and sweep the rod tip simultaneously, the slack is removed lightning fast and your landing ratio most often improves as the hook is buried deeper. We have noticed an improved landing ratio when fishing for trout with the two handers, which seems to have increased from about 60% to around 75%, most days. Longer drifts means your fly covers more water, with fewer casts and ultimately results in more fish landed. Two handed Spey casts are also possible with little or no backcasting room, which allows you to fish spots that other flyrod'ers pass up. Two hands are really better than one and it is twice as much fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I would like to represent both sides here (double hand & single handers). I love spey and find something totally accelerating of the casting & simplicity. I use this style in all applications, in fact I do more snake rolls & single speys with my single hander than I do overhead casting. But, (always a but) there are things that the longer rods(magic sticks) hinder IMO. They can dampen the fight of the fish, because of the length, lines are quite heavy for any given "rod weight" & the complete rig is heavy to just carry around (I'm a 3-5 weight single hand kinda guy). +75' foot casts with ease, sure, it is totally effortless but you're throwing 450+ grains. What is that, 11 weight class? These aren't "magic" rods, pure physics. I think on a forum both "pros" and "cons" need to be identified, especially for the newbies. See you on the river! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryfly Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I've not used a spey so have to be careful here. They DO seem like a ton o' fun and look great on a large river. However, I do not think they are practical for things like pike fishing where there are prospects of landing larger pike that you want to manage quickly and release. I fish a lake full of smaller pike and the extra casting distance they might afford would be of great use on some evenings when wade fishing. Back to large pike in a lake from a PT. You said, "you have the advantages of being able to plant the rod butt into your hip and use two hands to haul hard" True, but at some time you have to strip in the line or wind in the reel with one hand. It requires twice as much arm hauling with the single arm because of the extra rod length. "directional changes that you can place on the fish will tire it quickly " This makes no logical sense since the rod is a third class lever that requires more power to affect any movement--albeit that movement covers a greater distance. When a large pike decides it is going that way .. well, it goes that way. It goes wherever it wants. They generally do not cover large distances, but they are unstoppable even with a short rod. They would less stoppable with a longer rod. "let the rod do the work." The arm ultimately does the work. And now I am trying to visualize trying to power in a 15-pound pike with a 13-foot rod when you are alone in a PT. It will be very difficult to control the fish and also be in charge enough to get it up close for releases at the edge of the PT. Even when wade fishing this could be most difficult when alone. I can see this being a two-person operation. "However, the real advantage in using two handers, is in the casting control, using a variety of tips and large flys, great presentations at a distance which improves stealth, excellent line control and the fast, powerfull hook sets that are achievable at 75'-85' and even more, which are important when using large hooks for big fish.....Longer drifts means your fly covers more water, with fewer casts and ultimately results in more fish landed. Two handed Spey casts are also possible with little or no backcasting room, which allows you to fish spots that other flyroders pass up." Yeah, all of that makes sense. I can see their advantages for some situations where distance is required and they look like a lot of fun. They would be of advantage on rivers like the OM below the dam ... and the Bow of course. Thanks for the info. Cheers! Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Don't forget stripping line in close, to your feet close. You must then pay out line to prepare for the next cast. For me, the follow is one of my favorite parts of spring fishing for pike. Where I do like them, is for shore fishing for pike with an area of vegetation in front of you. You now have the ability to fish that zone past the weed bed and into the deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 i here ya 100% dino and back ya all teh way..was and still am using teh spey long before i got two hands on a rod..prettymuch all about the rolls unless its really breezy or its dryfly..then its overhand time.....have bin meaning too make a pro's versus cons paragraph...jsut need too take a lil time too stop fishin....thanks for bringin this up tho dude... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 I could see the long speyrod being great for pike fishin from shore but I can't see it being my thing in a PT boat..... part of the reason that you use the boat is so that you can get closer to the places you want to fish...... Also I can see the weight transfer for big spey casts being hard to accomplish while sitting..... That said I have never tried it so maybe I am wrong..... Also like DF said manuevering a pike into a landing cradle is tough and I think a long rod would likely only make it more difficult....... Long handle net is a different story... What Dino said is spot on 100%. He also mentioned that he is a 3-5 wt kinda guy...... and thats the great thing about spey casts they will still work on a 8 ft 3wt...... technique may change a bit from a 17 foot 10 wt 2 hander but the science behind the casts is similar..... Also your 9 foot singlehand rod, like 90% of guys use, will work just the way it is you don't need special lines, leaders, rigs ect whatsoever to do spey casts. Your setup right now can do spey casts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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