4 Wt Rod And Reel

[MPH]

Looking to pick up a 4 wt rod and a reel to go with it for the upcoming season. Currently using a St. Criox Avid 5 wt that I like but with limited experience using other rods I do not know what i could be potentially missing. Read through the Yellowstone Angler 4 wt shootout and the Hardy Zenith, Winston B3x and the Sage TXL took the top spots.

 

Any recommendations on what to look at and for in a 4 wt? Is it worth the additional cash to go with a higher end setup or is the difference between the different levels of rods negligible. Any risks with buying a higher end used rod?

 

Will also be looking for reel recommendations however my understanding is that a rod should be selected first and the reel is selected based on that.

 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[RunnyD]

I went through this dilemma myself.

 

My first rod was a $250 TFO BVK and wondered if there was any difference between it and a higher end rod. So I bought a $700 Hardy Zenith. The Zenith is a pretty sick stick but after awhile I realized it's not the rod that makes it sweet. I was on the water, all proud with my recent purchase that I realized, I better look like I know what I'm doing with a $700 rod. I wasn't a novice in fly fishing, nor was I advanced. I was somewhere in the middle. While swinging the Zenith, I was more aware of my casting stroke and after awhile my overall casting technique got better.

 

After sometime, I went back to using my BVK for some nymphing and realized it was easier to work with since the last time I picked it up. LIGHT BULB goes off!!! It was me, not the rod.

 

So the moral of my story is, work with what you got and if you feel you've maxed it out, then think about buying a rod that better suites the type of fishing you want to do. If you feel that you need to work in closer range like on a small creek, buy a shorter, lighter, more flexible rod over lined in weight. If you want to chuck big a$$ streamers, go heavier with a bigger stick like the Sage 99 (I have a 6wt Sage 99 and use it strictly on the Bow for nymhphing and streamers... love it). I feel that good technique is more important than the equipment you have. I know there are a few here that would agree. I don't think I'll ever buy another $700+ rod again.

 

With saying that... look at Greys. They have some sweet mid ranged rods that are half the price of the Hardy's, GLoomis, Winstons, etc.

 

As for reels, again depends what your fishing for. Larger fish, you'll need a good drag system and large arbor. Smaller fish, very rarely you'll need drag and doubtful it will ever put you into your backing.

 

"Those are my thoughts, not yours!!" -Jesse the Body.

[bigalcal]

So many choices......good post by RunnyD. I'm going through the same dilemma trying to decide on a 3wt. I'm probably going to go with the Winston Boron III LS .....but that's just me. Good luck!!

[stonefly]

Rods comes in different length. Are you planning to fish smaller rivers than get one that's shorter. They also come in different type of action. Use these criteria to help you decide what you want and price also.

[SkwalaStonefly]

One of my favorite rods is a Winston Passport (~$220) with a Hardy Ultralight 3000 large arbor reel (~$200). I love the rod and reel. When I bought the rod I went to Troutfitters and we took 3 Winstons out to the park - the Passport and two others with costs of about $450 and $750. I bought the Passport because it cast as well as the more expensive Winstons (which are made of higher quality materials and fittings). The Passport was the best bang for my buck and I have fished it for two full seasons. Maybe a pro can benefit from the $750 rod but I suspect most will not.

 

I also second the Greys. I have a lovely 4 piece, 6.5 ft, 3 weight XF2 Streamflex I bought last season. Great for smaller streams. They come in a wide variety of sizes and are great bang for your buck.

[Vagabond]

Personally,I've gotten away from the small stream/short rod mentality.

For many years,I used a 7' 4wt.,and it did indeed serve me well fishing a lot of small,brush choked streams.Then I bought a new 9' 5wt,and like any new toy,it became my go to rod of choice,fishing those same streams.

I came to realise that the only slight advantage that a 7' rod has over a 9' is that it is slightly easier to weave and maneuver through the thick and nasty trees when I was bushwackn between holes and runs.Wading down even the tiniest of streams where the alder canopy is akin to crouching in a cave....no significant difference really?

Imho,the advantages of a longer rod outweigh any slight advantage offered by a short rod.The reach of the longer rod I've found is helpful in typical small stream situations where you might only have the leader and a wee bit of flyline out beyond the tip,ie;highsticking,Czech nymphing,bow and arrow casts,or just simply reaching out from the stream bank to swim a streamer.Side arm casts when required,again,more reach to make a backcast centered upstream.Roll casting,the staple cast of small streams,again,advantage long rod.Then on slightly bigger waters,or wading armpit deep down beaver choked Brookie streams,mending line,tubing on lakes with smaller 3-4wt appropriate fish....the longer rod clearly excels for distance and height above the water surface.

I guess I've just found the shorter rod is more limiting than advantageous,again,the only slight edge that I've found is for bushwackn?

[DRock]

Winston b3x. I have 4,5,6,8 wt b3x and the 4 wt paired with hardy ultralite dd is by far my fav. I have tried a few 4 wts and always go back to the b3x

[MPH]

Thanks for the tips everyone! I am hoping to get out in the near future and try some rods out,to see what feels best. Will move forward from there.

 

Talked with Chris at Troutfitters earlier today and he has me wondering now whether or not a 3 wt may compliment my current 5 wt better than having a 4 and a 5 wt. Hopefully casting both a 3 and 4 will help with the decision making!

[DaveJensen]

If I can make a comment? Try many, many rods and see what you prefer for flex / load point and whether your style matches the rod. I'm personally not a tip flex guy because I like to load a little deeper & slower, and let the line/rod flex and shoot in one false cast. The rod has to load and flex how & where you like it and the line you choose has to lay out how you best feel for where/how you fish. Keep in mind that a shorter rod will preclude a few things, like steeple casts high above the willows in tight water. Maybe check out an Orvis Superfine, 4 wt. Load it with a trout taper line and a 12 foot leader and 25 feet of fly line and see how that feels laying out. I used to be a Scott G-Series guy, then an Orvis Helios 4, mid, but am loving the Superfine (graphite. The glass is nice but a different application). No matter what rod you use, you will have to allow a 4wt to work for you, so true for the style of fishing on smaller waters. Cheers.

[Hawgstoppah]

There is certainly some merit to the statement that you may want to pick up a 3wt. Most people I know will have a collection of rods like this : 3,5,7 & 9 or 2 (maybe),4,6 & 8. Either way you are covered for a wide variety of fishing situations from little creeks and small trout to swinging big bully flies and chuck and duck streamer fishing for pike.

 

I had a St Croix Legend Ultra for years as my go-to light rod and loved it. I ended up replacing it with a used Sage and I find they are both similar in feel, which was important for me when switching sticks. I can't echo everyone else enough by saying take many, many sticks out for a cast and have several reels and lines as well, find the combo that just "feels right" to you, and you'll probably know it when you find it.

[LastBoyScout]

2 cents on the 3wt 4wt 5wt. I fished a Sage LL 7'9" 4 for years and loved it then I found a Sage LL 9'0" 3wt. I all ready had a 9' 5wt. I found the 3 with the extra length perfect for smaller water because the extra length gave me better mending and line control. The poor 4wt hasn't been out of the tube for years. I run both the 4wt and the 3wt with an Orvis Battenkill 3/4, with less line on the water and shorter casts it has worked perfectly for well past 30 years.

[skearns]

Great educational thread, I too am putting together a 4 wt setup ( just purchased an Allen Trout II reel now looking at rods). over the past few years I having been exploring smaller creeks both in Alberta and BC and although my 6 wt has sufficed there is an element of overkill. Originally I had reasoned to go for a shorter rod for ease of casting in tight areas, however from all the info posted here that logic seems flawed and nice 8'6 to 9' 4 wt rod will work well for the small creeks and possibly for some dryfly action on the bigger water...thanks FFC

[slingshotz]

I had used my 4wt 8' 6" TFO for many years and loved it but found it wasn't different enough from my 5wt. So I picked up a nice 3wt Sage 7' at a sale and haven't looked back. The 3wt can handle pretty much anything in our streams (other than a 30" bull).

 

If you are buying used, make sure that the seller is one of those types with a few dozen different rods so the chance will be slim that the rod would have been abused (I know you people are out there )

[MPH]

I had used my 4wt 8' 6" TFO for many years and loved it but found it wasn't different enough from my 5wt. So I picked up a nice 3wt Sage 7' at a sale and haven't looked back. The 3wt can handle pretty much anything in our streams (other than a 30" bull).

 

If you are buying used, make sure that the seller is one of those types with a few dozen different rods so the chance will be slim that the rod would have been abused (I know you people are out there )

I have been leaning more and more towards a 3 wt based on the feedback received from a few different shops around the city.

[beedhead]

Good thread. My favorite little stick is a 3wt St.Croix Imperial. Casts like a dream and roll casts like no other rod I own. Have used it in all kinds of situations. Caught some Big Bulls and Bows on it. No problem. Price is right as well. Though it's not my go to rod, I sure enjoy when I rig it up. My 2 bits.

 

Cheers. Jeff..

[Taco]

If I can make a comment? Try many, many rods and see what you prefer for flex / load point and whether your style matches the rod. I'm personally not a tip flex guy because I like to load a little deeper & slower, and let the line/rod flex and shoot in one false cast. The rod has to load and flex how & where you like it and the line you choose has to lay out how you best feel for where/how you fish. Keep in mind that a shorter rod will preclude a few things, like steeple casts high above the willows in tight water. Maybe check out an Orvis Superfine, 4 wt. Load it with a trout taper line and a 12 foot leader and 25 feet of fly line and see how that feels laying out. I used to be a Scott G-Series guy, then an Orvis Helios 4, mid, but am loving the Superfine (graphite. The glass is nice but a different application). No matter what rod you use, you will have to allow a 4wt to work for you, so true for the style of fishing on smaller waters. Cheers.

What you do with your old Gs Dave? I think I'd kill to own a 6 wt G specially on days my 6wt Sages don't put me in a very happy place.

 

Ex-Scott man Larry Kenney has a line of glass rods that are sweethearts. I fish a 4 and a 5 of his.

[MPH]

I cast a Sage Response 8'6" 3 wt yesterday and really enjoyed it, especially for the price(~$400). Any other 3 wt rods that would be worth trying in the $400 or under range prior to making a purchase? The TFO BVK has to come up as an alternative however they do not make an 8'6" 3 wt.

[DaveJensen]

Just saw this Taco - I only have 2,3,4 wts in those. They get used time to time. I should fish them more often and may start to spread water time out a little more this summer. If I had a 6 I'd send it your way tho.

[troutguy]

I really like a 3wt diamond willow branch properly cured with a nice piece of 10 yr old fly-line. Kinda like Tenkara. For small streams itz the "bomb"

[MPH]

Thanks for the advice all! Ended up picking up a TFO BVK 3wt with a Sage 3200 reel and am very pleased so far. Had it out on Jade Lake this past weekend and it performed very well. Couldn't have asked for a better first day with the new setup!

 

IMG_1150-5 by MPHeynen, on Flickr

[Rapman]

I have a 4 wt BVK I was happy with - until I put together a Sage VXP 4 wt. BIG difference. If you've got a few free evening and enough manual dexterity to tie shoelaces, you can roll your own at a pretty decent saving. The VXP blank was $240, added pretty decent components for another $100. All in (shipping, blank, components etc) came to less than $400. Factory assembled would have been $500+. And you get the satisfaction of catching fish on a rod you built yourself. The BVK is still a nice little rod which my wife will be using, and I'm very happy with my 7 and 8 wt BVKs for manhandling the big junk, but I think for delicate fishing situations, a higher end rod makes for a more satisfying experience.