Weedy1 Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I have been losing some hawgs the last couple of weekends while the fish are near my boat. ( < than 15ft of line out) What I'm finding is as I get the fish close to the boat, and there is a bend in the rod, it takes very little movement by the fish for them to snap off. I'm have been using a 9-1/2ft 5wt Sage XP this year while last year I was using a 9ft 5wt TFO signature series. I was not busting off nearly as many fish last year. I was told by an fellow yesterday that since the XP is a fast rod there is more chance of breakoffs. The theory is the XP doesn't have as much shock absorbtion as a slower rod. Any thoughts or solutions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenbow Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Seems somewhat possible to me, although I suspect your batch of tippet more. Try using your TFO again with the same tippet as on the Sage & see what happens, then you'll likely know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownstone Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I run a Sage Z-Axis 590, It's a very fast action rod, Hardly ever break off any fish..I'd say less than half a dozen this summer...the therory sounds good, but im with Glen, check other things first.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 Hardly ever break off any fish..I'd say less than half a dozen this summer Less than half a dozen? I did more than that yesterday alone. I'm not talking puny fish - 18" and up. What's your typical setup on a lake Brownstone? (ie - leader/tippet/knots) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownstone Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Less than half a dozen? I did more than that yesterday alone. I'm not talking puny fish - 18" and up. What's your typical setup on a lake Brownstone? (ie - leader/tippet/knots) Busted off very few fish this season, all decent .. don;t fish lakes much, but my rig does'nt differ from lake to river much anyway, only the lenght of the leader and the indie (rowley indie) and of course the patterns are always being changed..I tie my flies off blood knot droppers, very seldom do i go "inline" with my flies, only bigger worms and stones and such..I donl;t use fancy line..Maxima is my go to leader/tippet 6/8/10 lb and i use a 3-4x fluoro for dries depending on the size of the snout.. i only busted off a few fish....but have had lots of spits and bent hooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 I'll clarify this a bit. I'm landing the fish by myself with a measure net with a short extendable handle from a 14' boat. I have to get the fish right next to the boat or I would fall in. (It would help to have a longer handle on the net.) Yesterday I had a 4lb+ fish run twenty times without breaking off. (5mins+ of playing the fish) As soon as I got it to within 5 feet of the boat it had settled down and was ready to land. The rod had a good bow in it and I started to bring it towards the boat. The fish thrashed once and that was it. I was using a 1x RIO leader which broke about 5 feet from the thick end. A 1x leader at the 5 foot mark is probably equivalent to 5 pound test. The leader was new. The problem is when I'm bringing the fish to the boat. I have to put pressure on the fish in order to bring them close enough to the boat to land. If the fish thrash hard during the time I'm pulling the fish close to the boat I either lose them or they snap off. I cannot see any other way of landing them easier unless I play the fish for a stupid amount of time and completely tire them out. I try to land them as fast as possible which probably contributes to the snap offs. I guess the question is, is there an alternative way of bringing in the fish without having to put so much pressure on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchy Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I think what you're saying is right.. Temple Fork > Sage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownstone Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I think what you're saying is right.. Temple Fork > Sage. ummmm.. for turn around on warrenty .. yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 Neither of these rods is particularly fast, they both measure up in the high 60's for Action Angle. So there is little difference in rod action. The TFO's however are about 1 line weight stiffer for a given line rating, so you may be reefing on the fish harder with the softer Sage rod. Interesting. I assume what your saying here is that if I put the two 5wt rods side by side with a 4lb weight hanging off of each of them the TFO would not have as much of a bow in it as the Sage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Most likely the difference is in the length of the rods you're using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownstone Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I'll clarify this a bit. I'm landing the fish by myself with a measure net with a short extendable handle from a 14' boat. I have to get the fish right next to the boat or I would fall in. (It would help to have a longer handle on the net.) Yesterday I had a 4lb+ fish run twenty times without breaking off. (5mins+ of playing the fish) As soon as I got it to within 5 feet of the boat it had settled down and was ready to land. The rod had a good bow in it and I started to bring it towards the boat. The fish thrashed once and that was it. I was using a 1x RIO leader which broke about 5 feet from the thick end. A 1x leader at the 5 foot mark is probably equivalent to 5 pound test. The leader was new. The problem is when I'm bringing the fish to the boat. I have to put pressure on the fish in order to bring them close enough to the boat to land. If the fish thrash hard during the time I'm pulling the fish close to the boat I either lose them or they snap off. I cannot see any other way of landing them easier unless I play the fish for a stupid amount of time and completely tire them out. I try to land them as fast as possible which probably contributes to the snap offs. I guess the question is, is there an alternative way of bringing in the fish without having to put so much pressure on them? I think i understand what your saying, I land fish in a similar way (i think) .. only I tail them at my feet, I try to apply side pressure with my rod tip up and out to the side, and get the trouts head poking out of the water and "slide" it along the surface, when it gets close i move my rod (without switching hands) to the left side and raise the tip and the fish will usually pass right in front of me and thats when i make a move for the tail.. is it possible the fish thrashes and hooks it self on another hook on your rig? Thats when i get tangles and droppers hooked into the fish..when its thrashing on surface... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 I think i understand what your saying, I land fish in a similar way (i think) .. only I tail them at my feet, I try to apply side pressure with my rod tip up and out to the side, and get the trouts head poking out of the water and "slide" it along the surface, when it gets close i move my rod (without switching hands) to the left side and raise the tip and the fish will usually pass right in front of me and thats when i make a move for the tail.. I use essentially the same approach mind you I have to deal with two anchor ropes also so the vertical pressure is usually more than the horizontal pressure. is it possible the fish thrashes and hooks it self on another hook on your rig? Thats when i get tangles and droppers hooked into the fish..when its thrashing on surface... This happens periodically. When I fish water less than 10 feet deep I use only one fly usually. When in water 15-20 feet I will sometimes use 3 flies but spread apart enough that typically them hooking themselves is not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownstone Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I use essentially the same approach mind you I have to deal with two anchor ropes also so the vertical pressure is usually more than the horizontal pressure. could be the problem..when the fish thrashes it loses bouancy in the water..putting more strain on your line..and if your tip is already bowed out then there is little shock absorption left .. the stiffer TFO may allow more forgivness when landing fish this way.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 So I spent $500 on a rod that I can't land fish on. Great. BTW I don't have this problem in streams or rivers so everything said so far makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I think most of the suggestions made so far are good and the rod stiffness may play a part but none the less this should not necisarily stop you from landing fish on that rod.... Also I will note a 1x leader 5 feet from the fat end should be damn close to 15lbs not 5lbs very weird break imho anyways maybe leave a yard of slack line below your rod hand (which is holding the line) so that when the fish is going nuts close to the boat you only have to loosen your grip to give him a bit more line....... i like to bring em on the reel the majority of the way and the last few feet by stripping line.... I find that bit of slack helps as it will slide out no problem if its needed where as if you have the fish on the reel the rod tip straight back while you are trying to land him and he gets his footing and gives a good pull on that shorta line at that angle it will snap..... another option is to use your drag while fighting the fish and once he gets close turn the drag right down as again this way if he gives hard pulls or shakes he will get some slack. Sooner or later as you slide him in he will not flop or turn and run ect and will end up in the net.... Best suggestion I can think of is use a slightly higher strength tippet or a longer handle net...... You could also just for the hell of it put your rod in a rod holder or get a buddy to hold it and test to see the difference in the amount of force it takes to turn your drag depending on the angle of the pull. ie. when the fish is running 50 feet out from the boat the angle formed with rod tip straight up is going to be much more obtuse then say when the fish is right at the side of the boat with the rod tip straight up. I think this angle affects the amount of force that will be required to turn your drag. And hence a drag that spins at 50 feet at a 90-110degree angle may not spin at 10 feet and a 15-30 degree angle.....adjust the reel at close distances to compensate for this change...... I hope that makes some kinda sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 You say you have a 14' boat? Get a 12' net- problem solved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 That makes perfect sense Lonefisher, I'll try adjusting the reel like you say and get a longer handle net. Damn fish are just getting too big around here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Or better yet just bring me and I will land em for ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 Or better yet just bring me and I will land em for ya No problem. Next time Edmonton is at the top of your list for fly fishing destinations give me a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I fish XPs and "fast rods" lots - including a 10' #6. If the leader is breaking where you say, it needs to be replaced. LF is on the money. 1X alone is 10# - 5' from the end it's 15# easy. The only way a tippet like that will break is if it's nicked, damaged, or has sat in the light for too long. There's no way a 4 pound rainbow should break you off if you're fishing 1X. If you have the rod too steep when it's close you'd break the tip before 1X would let go. You really should get yourself a long handled net for fishing from a boat. A 3' aluminum net with a rubber basket should cost you less than $25 at your local Cambodian Tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trex Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I have had problems with flouro in the past (and still do) I think the knots are way more sensitive to breakage. I will leave it to the pro's here to explain the knots or inadequate spit usage. If your using flouro try switching back to mono. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 No problem. Next time Edmonton is at the top of your list for fly fishing destinations give me a call. Hey Weedy, Next time my wife makes me go up there to visit her family, expect a PM. I'll see if I can assist in landing 4 lb trout. I even have an ugly yellow TFO 5 wt we can experiment with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenbow Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Rickr, all this time I thought the 'Yellow Mamba' was a fish bonker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 Hey Weedy, Next time my wife makes me go up there to visit her family, expect a PM. I'll see if I can assist in landing 4 lb trout. I even have an ugly yellow TFO 5 wt we can experiment with. Any time Rickr - I don't do ice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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