CopperJonny Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 Edit: ... proactive measures , thats what it's going to take Quote
Guest Wrecker Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 BP last 5 years Just to clarify a previous point. BP went to -22% in one quarter in 2010. They ended up at -1.2% profit for the year. My mistake, I misread the chart (and I do think they got off really light on the gulf spill, though I hope they are not done paying as the lawsuits still have to go through). They are back up to 6-7ish%m which seems pretty standard for a super major. So to make their 25.7B in 2011, they had to spend roughly 360B, give or take a few B. So while the 25B number looks huge, when put in perspective of the spend, it ain't all it's cracked up to be. Let's put it in perspective of a small business, guiding for instance. Let's estimate 100 trips per year at $600 per trip after tip. 60k in the pocket. At an oil company profit margin, you would be the proud owner of around $4,000 for the season! It cost you $56,000 to make that $60,000 in revenue. That's a lot of broken fly rods. Hardly a business model you'd embrace. Obviously the scale of a major oil company is different, but they are not the profit machines everyone assumes they are. All anyone looks at is the 25B. They do not acknowledge the 100,000 or so employees and 1/3 of a Trillion spend it takes to get that 25B. And whats your point? Quote
Guest Sundancefisher Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Edit: ... proactive measures , thats what it's going to take 100% agree. Proactive is always the best solution that reactive. I also believe in being at the table with industry in any development plans...shaping and altering direction and plans versus being outside the room shouting slogans. Being part of the solution is better than being part of the problem. Quote
CopperJonny Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Turtling and not allowing any industrial activity in Canada any more...is not a proactive collaborative approach that will work. If more effort was made by groups to work with the system to improve it...mountains could be moved and great decisions made... whereas just saying no...protesting and stomping feet serves no purpose in the end...unless 1,000,000 head out... on bicycles to protest from the cities. It is easy to pick up the mistakes and run with them...but in context to the majority of the oil industry that are fine outstanding corporate citizens of Alberta...they are a trivial number. Press and environmentalists are quick to over blow issues...but some however small like the ducks...should not have happened and likely won't now. There are more ducks and birds killed by buildings and powerline and wind turbines than there. Botulism increased by farming practices and fertilizers kills ducks in the thousands and thousands and thousands in North America. I apologize , It took me a couple of rereads of the second and third pages , to finally see what is going on here , my bad . Sundance you are absolutely correct regarding the attempts at change ..... and in fact , I understand that you are feeling the same in the idea that we do need a change .... Thank you for that !! So seeing as we seem to agree on the important and main concern's as a whole .... that we definitely need to change our wasteful ways ,in many areas if not nearly all ! Minimum tweaking , if not total abandon which I'm sure will not ever happen , nor necessarily should it .... Like you say .... As long as we continue to improve , right !!! ? Then I guess the question is " What DO we do ? " , " How are we going to do it ?" , " Can we do it ?" , even moreso .. " How Bad do WE really want to do it ? " ( multiple questions I suppose ) awe lol .. the 4 W's and How ... Again , I'm sorry ... for a bit this afternoon I felt as I was being mocked and I reacted before I saw the " forest for the trees?!!" Do we really want to do this ? It's easy to say .... I know I do , I think lol in all honesty ... we have too , Right ?!!! So how do we do it ? how do we get this started , everyone on an even keel ... we all have to do this together , Right?!!!! I'm not talking this Forum only , I mean EVERYONE ... We've been talking about this for years ....... its fully valid , and is kind of important .. I mean , maybe not necessarily for us , we may not see the benefits or changes in our lifetime ... does it still count though .....Exactly !! So ... let's pull up our socks !! What's the honest to god's truth , next step ?!! MLA's MP's , etc etc ... PM the PM ... petitions ... roundtable talks with everyone even ..... volunteer .. heck !! I've laid em in the past , I'll volunteer my free time to help pull out any old pipes and tubes / decommission old sites and remove ..... thats what I may do , yet maybe we can car pool to the site to do it ?!! I know , is it fruitless or what ? This will be the greatest project / responsibility venture we will face ... this day in age IMO . I mean our forefathers/mothers worked hard to build this nation , world .. I think its our task to " Upgrade " , seeing as now we do have the means too Quote
CopperJonny Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 My word !! Now thats what i was just thinking Quote
dutchie Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 take a min and give this a read , well worth it http://www.vancouversun.com/news/story.html?id=6780124 Quote
cheeler Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 History professors and sensationalistic media with no technical knowledge aren't going to help anyone understand what's going on. Quote
Ricinus Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Why?? If the facts are correct, it doesn't take much technical knowledge to see there is a problem. Mike Quote
Guest NamasteMushroom Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 History professors and sensationalistic media with no technical knowledge aren't going to help anyone understand what's going on. I agree with you (in general) about the media. But what I really prefer is to get my information from private industry and politicians.......government funded scientists, historians etc. always have a hidden agenda..... Quote
cheeler Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Why?? If the facts are correct, it doesn't take much technical knowledge to see there is a problem. Mike They're still facts, but the intent of the numbers is to show a number to be able to compare Alberta to other jurisdictions. We have many more km's of pipeline than other provinces and states, so we will have more total leakage than those; of course the article failed to put Alberta into perspective with other jurisdictions because it wouldn't have helped them make a point of opposing Northern Gateway. The accusation that the ERCB or NEB are trying to hide something is baseless - all the professor did was multiply a couple of numbers together. Yes we have aging infrastructure but at least we have a regulator and industry that can be held to a standard; if Albertans want to reduce the leaks it can be done but with the decreased risk will come a higher cost at the pump and on your gas bill. We should feel lucky in other places or times around the world it would either get ignored or blamed on other parties. The only way to assure zero leakage is to not have any oil and gas activity. Quote
Guest NamasteMushroom Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 The only way to assure zero leakage is to not have any oil and gas activity. If that's the case, then opposing the NGP makes the most sense. How much are those rivers and the BC coastline worth? http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/20...accounting.html but at least we have a regulator and industry that can be held to a standard Yes, those standards have certainly been effective on the Red Deer and Peace River over the last year..... Quote
Ricinus Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I think we may have a problem here.. another spill http://home.mytelus.com/telusen/portal/New...;CatID=National Mike Quote
midgetwaiter Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 I worked at Enbridge when the Athabasca line was built, it's a fairly unique pipeline. It moves somewhat diluted heavy oil from around Ft. Mac to the upgraders at Hardisty so it's a big SOB, 36" diameter. It's also only about 15 years old, I wonder what the cause of the break was. Quote
dutchie Posted June 20, 2012 Author Posted June 20, 2012 I think we may have a problem here.. another spill http://home.mytelus.com/telusen/portal/New...;CatID=National Mike this is my whole point , another leak at least this one is not near a waterway and it will be contained and with min damage to the environment , as much as i hate to hear about another spill , these will happen , i hope some big changes come to any water crossings from all these spills Quote
Guest Wrecker Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Good to see these "leaks" are getting media coverage. Nothing initiates change/regulation like good ole' fashioned public outrage. Quote
Guest NamasteMushroom Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Good to see these "leaks" are getting media coverage. Nice one. Quote
troutfriend Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 I was present at the consultation hearings for the TMX pipeline (the 36inch line that now runs through Jasper). I was told clearly and repeatedly at those meetings by one of the engineers that these pipelines never leak so there is no need to worry! ...... Quote
jusfloatin Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 I was present at the consultation hearings for the TMX pipeline (the 36inch line that now runs through Jasper). I was told clearly and repeatedly at those meetings by one of the engineers that these pipelines never leak so there is no need to worry! ...... I'm sold I vote this topic be closed. Please vote Conservative. Quote
Guest NamasteMushroom Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/stor...l-michigan.html Full article with more details. Quote
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