Dear Leader Steven's Master Plan

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

Protesters are now called 'Rioters'

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012...oubled-mps.html

[SanJuanWorm]

Protesters are now called 'Rioters'

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012...oubled-mps.html

You've grossly mis-read the article. "illegal for anyone to wear a disguise to commit an indictable offence" I.E. riotting. If you're protesting with a mask it'll never hold up in court.

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

You've grossly mis-read the article. "illegal for anyone to wear a disguise to commit an indictable offence" I.E. riotting. If you're protesting with a mask it'll never hold up in court.

 

Rioting is already illegal, as is commiting an indictable offence.

 

The first line sums it up:

 

"MPs studying a bill that would make it illegal for rioters to cover their faces have doubled the proposed penalty to 10 years"

 

It seems they've replaced the word 'protesting' with 'rioting' IMHO.

 

The government is afraid; more jail time for wearing a mask at what the government deams lawful (or unlawful) assembly than for raping a child.

[TerryH]

Ok NamasteMushroom, explain to me why it is necessary to wear a mask when protesting.

[Smitty]

Martin Luther King Jr. got Civil Rights legislation passed (obviously with a great deal of help from the Kennedy admin + congress). Two things about that accomplishment:

 

1) They did it with non-violence.

2) They didn't wear masks.

 

So, I'd like to hear an answer to San Juan's question again; why do legitimate, non-violent protesters need masks?

 

No sympathy here for people who break the law, including rioting, vandalizing so-called "protesters".

 

And yeah, give them some extra time for the masks; some people just want an excuse to break s**t and get away with it.

 

Smitty

[Guest Grinr]

So, I'd like to hear an answer to San Juan's question again; why do legitimate, non-violent protesters need masks?

 

 

 

Smitty

No brainer really.....to lend support to a cause while at the same time protecting their identity and possibly career related repercussions?

Why do "whistle blowers" need protective legislation??Same sorta thing ain't it?

Isn't it entirely plausible to imagine that an individual might be passionately supportive of a movement,but at the same time,for fear of career or other social related repercussions,not want to be recognized publicly?Like "hey,I support what you are protesting and agree 100%......but I'm not really ready to risk my job over it??"

 

[angler]

Grinr; but there are many ways to be supportive and work towards something WITHOUT marching on the streets and no need to fear being identified.

[Smitty]

No brainer really.....to lend support to a cause while at the same time protecting their identity and possibly career related repercussions?

 

Not a no brainer; All those marchers during the civil rights collectively decided to accept the risk of repercussions: because the cause was that important. And talk about red-herrings! You really think the vast majority of people wearing masks are of the type saying to themselves "Gee, I don't want to get fired" vs "I like stirring up s**t and breaking stuff, and I am a coward and would like to avoid being caught." If anything, this issue should be considered a no-brainer the other way...

 

Why do "whistle blowers" need protective legislation??Same sorta thing ain't it?

 

No. Exact opposite. Whistle blowers are generally innocent of breaking the criminal code of Canada, rioters generally are not.

 

Isn't it entirely plausible to imagine that an individual might be passionately supportive of a movement,but at the same time,for fear of career or other social related repercussions,not want to be recognized publicly?Like "hey,I support what you are protesting and agree 100%......but I'm not really ready to risk my job over it??"

 

Perhaps a little plausible not that much (earlier point). If the risk is too great, they have other means to make legitimate protest and protect their anonymity. Besides, those people have protection from repercussions anyways, employers aren't allowed to discriminate against you because of your associations; that's usually the purview of human rights legislation.

 

Non -violent protest has gone way of the dodo it seems for many movements. I applaud the principles of of legitimate protest, and would defend their right to peaceful assembly, but the black-clad anarchists that have infected the environmental movement, the students in Quebec vandalizing property, etc; - no sympathy here. I say prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

 

Smitty

[Weedy1]

So where does this leave a women who wears a Burka? Would they only be allowed to protest without the Burka?

Would this not be against their religious rights in Canada?

 

Answer that one smart guy.

[Guest Grinr]

Well hey Smitty,now your changing the parameters of your question.You asked:"why do LEGITIMATE,NON-VIOLENT protesters need to wear a mask?"....I merely offered an explanation.

And as for workers being protected by rights,you're living in a dream world.In the real world where I work,if an employer wants to get rid of you for wutever reason,they will find a way to do so without getting sued.Who do you think they keep on come layoff time?The guy that asks how high when they say jump?Or the guy that will lift 50lbs+ without help....or that doesn't invoke his "right to refuse" and sits down every time some minor safety issue arises....BS....it's more like "get with the program or get lost."

[Smitty]

@Weedy: Ah...the sweet smell of red-herring hypotheticals Pandora's box. Love it. Its analogous to the abortion debate when people bring up rape and mother's life in danger when those circumstances account for a tiny percentile (and it doesn't matter what side of that debate we fall on..people always debating the hypothetical-rarely-happens-fringe-circumstances).

 

But ok, I'll give it shot; The burka is irrelevant during a non-violent protest, dress in a darth vader costume if you like. If you are rioting, burka ceases to be primarily an expression of religion and switches its primary function to concealment of jerk criminal breaking crap in offence of the Criminal Code...or at least I hope that's the way it would work. Religion shouldn't be a shield for criminal conduct. Peace, order, and good government I believe the document says...

 

@Grinr...and your response had what to do with wearing masks during a riot? We're not talking about how your company treats people, we're talking about r.i.o.t.i.n.g. That's why its not akin to whistleblowers...how did we get on this track? I think you're trying to connect 2 separate things. Like I kind og get what you are saying; and definitely I have to concede 100% you are exactly right on the safety issue - this is a huge problem in AB...and I certainly don't envy any employee caught in what must be an extremely difficult situation. The gov't, WCB, various organizations in the province regarding labor and workplace safety have blasted our province on our poor safety record. Employees should always feel free to speak out, particularly for safety issues. Is that reality? No, of course, not. So what are you suggesting? What can workers do? What is the effective means of protest? And what the heck would a mask to do to help solve the problem, lol (I know I'm over-reaching there)

 

Oh, and Grinr, trust me when I say there's plenty of real world stuff in my job. Almost too much you might say...

 

 

So, ya, just checking here...how many of us on this board actually feel its ok to conceal our identity in the commission of a crime? Because that's what rioting is...

 

I'm as hippie as the next dude, but I have never understood the sympathy rioters get from some people just because the underlying cause of said riot is some high-minded, principled "cause" or "movement".

 

Good God, going back to original example, MLK jr beat back the KKK and a culture of racism with non-violence (please note: I'm not claiming there's no more racism, I'm just commenting specifically on the Civil Rights legislation that got passed). He set the bar pretty high...which kind of sucks for the rest of us, in a lazy kind of way.

 

To pick a current example, you think the Quebec student """""""protesters"""""" (multiple quotes) are really justified in their vandalism? I hope the law passes before those "protests" end and some of those cowardly neanderthals get the extra jail time...

 

Anyways, good debate. Interesting, especially for a math guy now teaching Social Studies.

Smitty

[Guest Grinr]

Qu"Grinr,your response had what to do with people wearing masks during a riot?"/wu

 

Ummmm....nothing??

Again...my response was to your Q as to why ""legitimate,non-violent"" protesters might be inclined to wear a mask,and the second part was in rebuttal to your claim that workers have rights and nothing to fear from employers if they were identified as taking part in demonstrations that the company does not agree with.All I'm sayin is imaginary worker's rights be damned in my world of heavy construction,if I don't like the way you comb your hair....or I don't like you cuz your a Habs fan...or I just don't like you or your attitude....I can find a dozen ways to run you off my job and you can scream discrimination all you want,I'm gonna win.

 

Anyhow,no time for this now,I'm goin fishn....

[Weedy1]

But ok, I'll give it shot; The burka is irrelevant during a non-violent protest, dress in a darth vader costume if you like. If you are rioting, burka ceases to be primarily an expression of religion and switches its primary function to concealment of jerk criminal breaking crap in offence of the Criminal Code...or at least I hope that's the way it would work. Religion shouldn't be a shield for criminal conduct. Peace, order, and good government I believe the document says...

 

 

Smitty

 

I agree with your interpretation and would love to see the law applied in this fashion although being a Canadian for many years I have my doubts it would stand up in court if challenged.

 

[SanJuanWorm]

I agree with your interpretation and would love to see the law applied in this fashion although being a Canadian for many years I have my doubts it would stand up in court if challenged.

 

If I were Weedy i'd wear a mask too.

[Weedy1]

If I were Weedy i'd wear a mask too.

 

It's the only way I can get any from the wifey nowadays.

 

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

The fact is 'rioting' is already illegal.

 

Protesting is not illegal, and neither is wearing a mask.

 

This government is slowly chipping away at people's rights. The G20 was a great example; the government created closed door legislation for a few days....and as we all know - the largest mass arrest in Canadian history. The vast majority of protesters at the G20 who were arrested were neither charged, nor did they commit any crimes.....except challenging the metaphorical illuminati.

 

There are always some bad elements at protests, and those who would wear masks to incite violence. Here is a great example:

 

 

The Conservatives have eroded the rights of opposition on all fronts; environmental groups, laws to protect our fisheries etc. etc. This new legislation is just another example; they have referred to protesting as rioting, and are attempting to make an article of clothing illegal?

 

I can appreciate comparing it to the civil rights movement in the states, but these are different times. With social media, and mechanisms to keep a much closer watch on people's identity, being anonymous is a valuable tool in current struggles. I mean really, how can you expect to battle a group (the Conservatives) that keeps records on citizens that don't support them (ie. robocalls);…..... you do it with a mask.

 

Another great video below...

 

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

My buddy got arrested in that G20 scuffle but he had his Camera, Press pass, copy of his contract with the news paper he was working for. Got 20 hours in jail and nothing he could to do to say get your smelly fat pork hands off me you dumb sack of SH!T pig! but i guess when you can hide behind a badge and ignorance you can brake a lens or 2 and its not your problem.

 

The world is run by 2 faced a-holes. If the Arab spring was here they would march out the army just the same but since it happened to people we dont like its OK. Protesters in Egypt were wearing masks and it turned out ok for them.....

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

My buddy got arrested in that G20 scuffle but he had his Camera, Press pass, copy of his contract with the news paper he was working for. Got 20 hours in jail and nothing he could to do to say get your smelly fat pork hands off me you dumb sack of SH!T pig! but i guess when you can hide behind a badge and ignorance you can brake a lens or 2 and its not your problem.

 

The world is run by 2 faced a-holes. If the Arab spring was here they would march out the army just the same but since it happened to people we dont like its OK. Protesters in Egypt were wearing masks and it turned out ok for them.....

 

Agreed, and the media and government have done a fine job of painting all protesters as vandals, violent, degenerates, lazy etc.

 

Even during the American Civil Rights movement, the government tried to label people that supported equal rights as communists (sounds familar).

 

Protesting has become a bad word....gotta love propaganda.