reevesr1 Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I didn't want to hijack the Cleanup post, so I figured I should post this here. In his nymphing clinic, Greg discussed using 20 ft. of 20# mono, then 5 to 6ft of 8#, then the flies with flourocarbon. It got me thinking of a book I read that used to be a banner on this site. It was called "Some Guys Catch all the Fish" (stupid name, I know) and it was a discussion on nymphing, including some alternate techniques. Basically what he talks about is that as the water gets faster, use more mono. In slow water, normal fly rod setup. In moderately fast water he would use a fly reel loaded with 6# gold stren, no indicator. In very fast water he would put a spinning reel (no gasping please, not my idea) on the fly rod with 6# gold stren as the line, no indicator (used the spinning reel to keep up with the current when nymphing upstream). Used the gold of the stren as an indicator, combined with the sensitivity of the mono to feel the pickup. He used mono as the water speed increases because it gets down faster than fly line. Casting distance would suck, but since he is talking about high sticking, so what? I've been thinking of trying the mono on the fly reel I have a trip planned with Max this week with one of my clients and I am going to give it a roll with 40 ft or so 8# gold stren. I know this is too untraditional for many, but I have no tradition, so figure why not. Any comments or suggestions? Any one ever try this? I do have some concerns about the fly line to mono knot going through the guides, but I guess I could use more mono? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 The reasons I use 20' of 20lb. mono, is too allow more stretch in the line/leader system so that I can use finer Fluro tippets. Fluro does not have a lot of stretch and has a tendency to break if there is a sharp spike in the load placed on it. The 20' mono section of the leader can have 12" of stretch in it or more, (monofilament has an average stretch factor of 10%-15%), which protects the finer fluro tippets from overloading and breaking. Mono will float and only the weight of the flys/split shot, make it sink. Flurocarbon leaders and tippets will sink as they have a higher specific density than water, allowing weighted flys to sink quickly, right down to the stream bottom and most importantly, stay on bottom, extending your flys drift through the strike zone. Using finer fluro tippets will allow a more natural drift of your flys improving your presentations, which will catch you a lot more trout. If you need to use an indicator, place it on the end of the 20 lb. mono section, above the 8lb. fluro section of the leader. Czech nymphers use "in line" strike indicators, which are made up of a 12" piece of brightly colored floating fly line, with loops at both ends. The 20', 20lb. leader body is looped at both ends and the 8lb. Fluro leader can also be looped to connect to it. I do not use a strike indicator very often, but a small piece of foam indicator tape will work well. Use 4 wrap surgeons loops for 100% line strength on tippet connections and dropper loops. Use a paste floatant on the strike indicator and the first couple of feet of the 20lb. leader section. The spin rod method using the 8lb. mono that you speak of Rick, is used for center pin fishing technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Yeah, I understand what you are saying about mono floating. But obviously not nearly as much as fly line. I also know that the guy who wrote the book was using 8# instead of 20# because the fish he was targeting are not nearly as big as some on the bow, but.... I don't think 8# is too light for what I am thinking of trying, though I could be wrong. My thought process is that because of the color of the stren, I will be able to see strikes and the feel with the 8# vs. 20# (it will be all the way to my fingers) will be worth the loss of power. It will also cause much less drag, enhancing the drift. Though I could be wrong. And the 8lb system the guy was using , as described in the book, was high sticking. The only difference was the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 It will likely be difficult to cast or mend 8lb. mono at any distance unless you are reeling in and casting only the end of the leader using a spin rod/center pin rod and you may get a lot of tangles, especailly if you use a corkie for an indicator. Also, when High Sticking, there is very little of the 20lb. mono on the water. Maybe a foot or two at most and the 20lb. is a good diameter to be holding in your hand to feel the take, where as the 8lb will be difficult to hold and feel as it is very small. You can extend the 20lb. leader section so that a section of it is still in your hand when you have one and a half rod lengths of the leader hanging out of the rod tip. You can make a few small knots in the 20lb. leader, spaced 6" apart or so, where you will be gripping the line, to allow improved sensistivity through the leader system to your hand, for detecting takes. I learned about this leader system on a website that is owned and operated by former world champion Czech nympher and Coach of the Czech national team, Jan Siman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownstone Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Was talking about center pin fishing with Gordon on the clean up, he says its fairly popular across the pond and would be good on the Bow..seems a little too much like spin fishing too me..but i'd bet it'd hook lots of fish..true dead drift, imagine the possibilities..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Was talking about center pin fishing with Gordon on the clean up, he says its fairly popular across the pond and would be good on the Bow..seems a little too much like spin fishing too me..but i'd bet it'd hook lots of fish..true dead drift, imagine the possibilities..lol I watched a guy fishing the Bow a couple winters ago; he was using a center-pin setup with great success. Very interesting to watch him work the water - he sure could get a long dead drift. Go buy yourself a center-pin reel with a 16' rod, Rick, and you're good to go. It's super-cheap(NOT!!!!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 So I tried it today. Used about 30 yds of 8 lb. so that if I hooked anything big the fly line would not go through the guides. I used 6# flourcarbon, about 4 ft. from the end of the high vis stren to the flies. I used in exclusively as a high stick technique (or maybe Czech, as I did have to pull it along from time to time. I forget which is which). You can "cast" about 15 ft at best with minimal control. I got better as it went along. It would be useless in anything above moderate wind. The biggest problem was that if anything, it got the flies down too fast. It would be much more suitable for very fast water than what I was fishing. I was weeded up constantly, at least twice as often as my regular rig. Hooked one fish. Caught 3, hooked 5 using standard techniques and the same exact fly and weight setup. It could have a place in very fast water. I've not given up yet. Next time I will try less weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbransfield Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 When czech nymphing i like using flouro because it doesn't strech and you feel every little tap, strike, ect.... But I know people that prefer to boil their flouro leaders to get that strech that mono has. Todd Oishi also put me onto making coiled leaders for czech nymphing with visibility stren to indicate even the slightest strike. For clear water, and spookier fish it is possible to use 20 pound mono coil about six inches in length as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 John, Could explain to everyone who may be wondering, what the mono coil with visibility stren is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbransfield Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Its a six inch coil made of either stren(or brihgt coloured backing) or 10 pound mono that straightens at the slightest strike, its a good strike indicator for czech nymphing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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