Weedy1 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 There are millions billions trilions of baitfish in that river. Let us look at this rationally. We will start by dropping the plural form of millions, billions and trillions to keep the calculations simple. A million times a billion times a trillion is the number of baitfish you say is in the Bow (rounded down by me cause I'm writing this and I have that option): 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that’s one octillion baitfish in the Bow) Now lets say a baitfish weighs on average 5 grams. That would mean there is 5 octillion grams or 5 septillion kilograms or 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 grams of baitfish in the Bow. The entire Bow River is about 587 km or 587 000 meters long. For calculation purposes, I'll say it is 100 meters wide and 1-meter deep on average. This means the entire water volume of the Bow would be: 587 000 meters * 100 meters * 1 meters = 58,700,000 cubic meters of water. One cubic meter of pure water weighs 1000 kg. We all know the Bow is a poo hole, so lets add a few kg. 58,700,000 cubic meters * One cubic meter of Bow Poo Water at 1200 kg/ cubic meter of poo water= 70,440,000,000 kg of Bow Poo Water in the entire length of the river. So to summarize, according to the calculations there is: 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms of baitfish in the Bow and 70,440,000,000 kilograms of Bow Poo Water in the entire length of the river Steelhead, I think you may be out a baitfish or two. I am being forced to reassess the hypothesis of intelligent life on Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfool Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 ... That way i dont belly, back and face hook like using a dropper fly. As much as no one likes me here, I do have concern for the fish I catch, and only use single hooks and single flies, no droppers as they foul hook alot. I would like to see the regs change to stop the use of dropper flies. They are the fly anglers pickerel rig. used by flyangling butchers all over the province. They are bad. As much as I hate to admit it I think steelhead is right about this one. I have decided to stop using more than one hook to avoid this. I am sure that anyone here who uses more than one fly 18 inches or less from another fly can attest to body hooking a fish on many outings (common be honest now ). I wouldn't however use words to describe this method of fly fishing as butchers or pickerel rigs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I have a question about multiple fly rigs and fish damage: I hooked a couple today with one of the back hooks, both times in the skin of the belly. I can tell you there was no way there was any damage to the fish. Can someone tell me why that is more damaging than in their mouth?? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, I am truly wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grannyknot Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 If it isn't hooked in the gills, eyes, or deeply in the flesh, it is no more harmful than in the top of the mouth. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth though. BTW, the large group of big browns I stumbled onto last night were taking a size 12 pheasant tail. If anyone happened to notice a guy cackling wildly in the hail while he landed big fish after big fish, that was me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 What did I say that gave you the assumption that I use all the hooks on a crank? Actually, there was supposed to be an "if you haven't done so already"... in there. My apologies. Stuff on text comes out bad. And yes, after the first few badly hooked fish, all I had was one hook, at the rear, of any lure I used. Even when I guided, if someone came that didn't want to flyfish, I made them use only one hook at the back end of the lure. From basically a bystander's point on this thread, what the frick are you guys argueing about? The best way to catch big trout? Who catches more big trout? Does anyone want a hero cookie? Go fishing. Go catch your big trout. I know I will......................... on whatever fly I want!!!!!! It's not about what they eat, or why. It's about getting something they want, presented properly, where a large trout lives or may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Brian, I'd love a hero cookie! Got any?? Make up for that Lava cake I didn't get the other night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I do have concern for the fish I catch, and only use single hooks and single flies, no droppers as they foul hook alot. I would like to see the regs change to stop the use of dropper flies. They are the fly anglers pickerel rig. used by flyangling butchers all over the province. They are bad. So yah , make me into the boogey man and the reason all the big fish are scarred, when you had to change fishing styles and not the amount of hooks on your crank to stop foul hooking and scarring fish. Steelhead, Are you just trying to be provocative, or do you actually believe that? I always love it when someone decides something is bad, with no scientific evidence, and then decides it should be banned. The "I don't like it so no one can do it" method of regulation favored by governments and too many fishermen! If you read a couple of the replies, there are certainly those who agree with you on the issue of droppers. But their response is to stop doing it themselves. It does not fit with their belief system, so they stop. A perfectly reasonable and respectful response. Your response is to call the majority of the fly fishers in Alberta butchers. Again, I would assume you are just trying to be provocative. However, I struggle with what you are trying to accomplish, unless your goal is to just irritate. If so, congratulations! Just so my motives are clear, my goal is to get this thread to 2000. If a change in subject is what it takes, I'm more than happy to take up the challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryfly Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Four comments: 1) WOW! A simple (or not) question turns into an X-treme, knock-down, full-contact "debate." 2) Weedy said, "I am being forced to reassess the hypothesis of intelligent life on Earth." Funniest line ever here. 3) Can't wait till February. 4) Speaking of "currents and eddies" ... Has anyone heard of the current status of Loyal Eddie lately? Cheers! Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esleech Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esleech Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 It's not about what they eat, or why. It's about getting something they want, presented properly, where a large trout lives or may be. Thankyou Brian. I'm guessing you read that in a book about trout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Yeah. The book of Hawgstoppah, chapter one, verse one. If you know where the bigguns are.... you dont have to use a streamer (unless you want to, and there's nothing wrong with that either). I prefer to catch big fish on dries. It can be done. My largest fish in the Bow actually came on nymphs. 33 inches. Go get 'em... don't believe everything this fella says negative about "other" methods of fly fishing. He calls you all narrow minded... I think it's narrow minded to believe none of us can catch 2 or 3 24 inch plus trout in a day... while also adding another 15-20 fish in the 14-20 inch range in to boot!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esleech Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Yeah. The book of Hawgstoppah, chapter one, verse one. If you know where the bigguns are.... you dont have to use a streamer (unless you want to, and there's nothing wrong with that either). I prefer to catch big fish on dries. It can be done. My largest fish in the Bow actually came on nymphs. 33 inches. Go get 'em... don't believe everything this fella says negative about "other" methods of fly fishing. He calls you all narrow minded... I think it's narrow minded to believe none of us can catch 2 or 3 24 inch plus trout in a day... while also adding another 15-20 fish in the 14-20 inch range in to boot!! Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I just want to say that I agree with steelhead when he says that streamers are a good way to catch BIG fish....... I have no interest in the rest of the hot air but streamers do catch big fish. But they may not always be the best way to fish.... that depends on what your goal is...... but if you wanna hammer something today pushing 24 or 30 inchs cover a lot of water with a BIG streamer and it could very well happen..... Its a pretty lofty goal and more likely to end in a skunking perhaps. Also fishing a streamer incorrectly can be very very unproductive. I am very interested in hearing his methods of fishing streamers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreLastCast Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I agree that Streamers catch Big fish, and I'll add that noone actually said that they didn't. The problem I had, (and I think most of the others), that replied to this thread negatively were responding to Steelhead's choice of stating his point. It's hard to know exactly where he stands now since he has edited his original posts, but I did quote him where he stated that he only fishes Streamers because otherwise a person could only catch small fish. That's what I disagreed with, but like I say, He's changed his posts, so who knows where he stands now. I'm pretty sure he is just trying to piss people off now, so once again, someone started a thread that ended up getting sidetracked by someone that decided what they had to say was more important than anyone else's opinion. I will add though that over the years, and thru education, I actually catch more big fish by Nymphing or fishing Emergers and Pupa fished in the film. That is why I thought I would advise the person asking the question to learn the fish's feeding habits and the insects they eat. If a person does this, they will not only catch more fish, and bigger fish as well, it will in my opinion make Fly fishing more interesting. To each his/her own though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I'm still wondering how Steelhead did with the pickeral rig this summer: Maybee people can flyfish with a pickerel rig, in fact, thats what I am gonna use exclusively for the next few weeks and see how I do and see how many try to tell me what I'm doing wrong. Millions of ways to use a fly on this planet. Just not the way some here see fly fishing as being done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreLastCast Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Ok oK, No not everything you say is going to be wrong, I am obviously the one in the wrong here. After all that has been said, I wouldnt suggest to use streamers on the Bow. Rainbows and browns over the 22 inch size are easier caught with insects as told by many here. Dont waste your time using streamers. They only work for big Bulls on the highwood. Dont contradict anything anyone says on this board. They will hold the fact that you spin fish also against you and use it to enforce thier comments. My bad steelhead I too would be interested to see his results. The above quote is the one that made me laugh though. A person can't be too confident in their statements if they go back and edit what they wrote. The funny thing to me is that just below his post, I quoted him, so what he wrote isn't just going away. http://flyfishcalgary.com/board/index.php?...ost&p=17526 Stating one's opinion is fine, but doing it the way he does is ridiculous and from here on, I will not be a part of any thread he decides to disrupt. I think I'll just turn all the lights off and walk around stubbing my toe on the coffee table over, and over, and over..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 "QUOTE(steelhead @ Sep 27 2007, 11:02 PM) You bet I researced with dries, nymphs, feeding habits, hatches and all the other piddle and crap(been there, done that!), but I now only throw streamers. Sick of catching lots of little fish." I would have to assume he has been attaching streamers to his pickeral rigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenbow Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Nothing beats a dead-drift streamer scented with power bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Nothing beats a dead-drift streamer scented with power bait. How about a pickerel rig with live minnows? Worked like charm at about 2am last night at Hullswood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenbow Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Rusty, that's illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 As I see it, it was MTB that started with the negativity MTB wrote......... "I have to step in and say something and I'm sure it will offend, but what Steelhead wrote is ridiculous." And ........... "Taking Fly fishing advice from someone that was "Casting a Crank" as recently as this Spring, might not get you the results you are looking for." What am I going to do, not defend myself or what I wrote? If you knew it was going to offend me, why add in that last line about crank casting??? To offend me more? Thats awfully nice of you. You bet i am going to stick up for my methods. Especially when they work and may help others to catch bigger fish. I offered an alternative method to a person so he could have a chance at a bigger fish as he has not had much luck using the traditional methods of those on this board. I thought I was being good. But since they go against what one or a couple of people think, I'm the demon. Then I had to proove myself, with pics, and a long discussion of why I believe streamers work great, and defending myself from the well-knowns at the same time. I flip flopped my comments on some posts to put MTB into answering my question. It took someone else to ask him to, but he answered it, but not for me, for others, and it was a very good answer. He wouldnt give any good streamer advice otherwise. So please, forgive me for my methods of standing up for myself and trying to add some helpfull advice. They were negative to only those who took shots at me. And those shots were at me, not my methods. I only have a few mins to write today, but i will gladly offer my advice and techniques to this thread on Tuesday for those that are interested. But the suggestions offered by others so far concerning streamers are excellent techniques are not too different than the ones I am going to offer. Excellent advice they have offered. But hey, keep the cheap thoughts comin boys. Its interesting to see how others respond. 8 hundred members and only 40 regular posters, with only a select few who act like this and shoot individuals down and thier methods, no wonder why 760 people remain silent on this board. I wouldnt want to talk or befriend half of you either. Its hard for people to keep up with the godliness. See ya on Tuesday. That will give you all time to give me the gears some more while I cant respond. Steelhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 well I guess if no one wants to drop the arguement part this will just be another thread where you have to read through pages of BS penile augmentation to find the snippets of good info..... Shame as I feel I have a lot to learn about locating big fish on the lower bow..... which if I remember correctly was the original topic. I'm just a hack but heres a few more specific questions that I feel, if answered, could help me and potentially others catch more big fish on the lower bow.... especially when answered in regards to this particular part of the season What sort of features both shoreline, subsurface, and surface might be indicative of a good lie? My own answer though maybe incomplete would be for shorelines- cutbanks. Outcropings, curves and shoreline obstacles that create an amount of slack or slower current beside or below them. And a presonal favorite though maybe not for the lower bow- Logjams Subsurface- Fish size and bigger current breakers like boulders, logs, and other objects. Holding spots like troughs (sp?)and ledges, Surface- riffles- may be indicative of structure capable of shielding a trout, also often indicative of a food supply do to the fact that these riffles are usually a good sign of oxygenated water that bugs like to develop in. I could use help identifying the more productive areas in a large riffle section. Swells- may also be indicative of a large subsurface object.... might mean there is some slack water directly behind the object creating the swell..... these are often tough to fish in my opinion. I have to go to work but maybe somebody can answer these questions that might have some relevance in the current lower bow timeframe whats a good way/rig to fish emerging BWOs? The same question with october caddis? Do october caddis create a case, or are they free living on the lower bow, is there a specific size that they usually come in or do they vary a lot? What are some of the baitfish species most common on the lower bow and of most interest to the trout? Are some of them moving to spawn? Are some of them moving to find wintering water? I have a lot more but I am now late for work so I gotta run PS MTB your rundown of streamer fishing techniques was great thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmelenberg Posted October 9, 2007 Author Share Posted October 9, 2007 Good Questions by LoneFisher. I am eager to hear the answers... BWO's... October Caddis... riffles, swells, and subsurface, not to mention baitfish. I guess that's what this Chat room is all about. thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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