Dogs Vs Fishermen And Vice Versa

[yak]

From my first post:

 

I throw the tennis ball across the river for the third time....dogs swim out into the middle, take their sweet time,

 

The first 2 times the dogs retrieved it right off the bat. The third time they decided to mess around with each other and were more tired I guess and the ball wound up going way downstream of even where I'd allow them to swim - much too far. I tried calling them back but knew they wouldn't come until they had the ball - but I did try. So...I didn't throw the ball anywhere close to where the guys were - in fact threw it upstream of where I was. Plus they were just standing in the river with their rods in the air, not unhooked and they weren't casting at the time....just seemed to be looking for risers. So, trust me when I say that it was COMPLETELY unintentional and that I went out of my way to avoid this situation - a situation that somebody else would have created had it not been me. The guys were just plain too close for it not to be a situation in my opinion.

I didnt mean to intimate it was intentional and I understand these guys really picked a bad place to look for risers but if it had been me and i saw 2 flyguys stalking risers, i would have held my dog in check or moved away. Obviously the average dog owner( see non fisherman) wouldnt have thought twice about tossing their ball right into the area these guys were in, but I thought it curiuos that you didnt go out of your way to give them some space(heck if it had been me, i would have been more interested in what they were stalking than tossing the tenny for the 50th time).

I have had the same thing happen many times on the river ( outside the offleash area) and it can get a little frustrating when the dog owners are not only oblivious to the anglers but actually seem to go out of there way to spook fish. Not much a guy can do but smile and move on when this happens.Again, the way they handled themselves was extremely immature and uncalled for( especially considering where they chose to fish).

[ladystrange]

lynn, were they on the dog park side or on the carburn park side? not that it matters, i have owned dogs and i have taken my dog to the southland dog park and definately would not bother fishing there. most dogs behave like little yard apes and the owners do not train their dogs to respond to commands all the time, no exceptions.

 

kind of an exercise in aggrevation. regardless of where you are fishing and how well intentioned the dog owner is and trying not to disturb you, you are still dealing with mother nature. water currents that change, dogs who are distracted by, well, everything, fish moving about, beavers sneaking up on to purposely scare the crap out of you, but that's another song. you just can't guarantee that a ball or a dog isnt going to make it's way into someone's pool or riffle or back eddy. going to a dog park and expecting not to be bothered by dogs is like going to a elementary school yard during recess with your pants down and expecting not to be arrested. it just aint going to happen and to expect otherwise is idiocy.

 

nonetheless, many, many years ago i had a great dane german shepard X. a lovely but high strug animal. in West Vancouver there is a dog park at one end of the beach. running the length of the beach is a seawall that runs close to 30 +/- full city blocks. about 5 of those are separated for the dog park with great big signs saying "CAUTION DOG PARK, OFF LEASH AREA, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK" doesnt leave much room for misunderstandings.

 

 

at this point in time was 18, young, dumb, with a big dog that i had recently adopted and only partially trained who had been badly abused. looking back, i should not have had the dog in an off leash area until he was properly trained.

 

so there i am playing fetch on the big grassy field on a rainny day. there weren't that many people around so i had let the dog off the leash. the seawall was blocked from sight from the field by several bushes. so i was throwing the ball and the dog was running after the ball, took a hard left and ran into the bushes about 30ft in front of me and i hear this guy start screaming.

 

i think that the dog is mauling this guy so i run over, but the dog is barking. really hard to talk and bite at the same time, so at that point i imagine that the dog probably isnt eating this guy and i get over the bushes.

 

Rex was a big dog and kind of scary looking, i will admit that and he had a big bark to go along with it. here's this skinny middle aged runner in his 1980's slit up the side running shorts (in 1994) and head band screaming at the top of his lungs in a high pitched 8 year old girl kind of tone, flailing his arms at the dog and jumping in one spot.

 

i actually started laughing when i got there to see what the commotion was within 15 - 30 seconds of the whole thing starting. the guy is yelling that my dog was going to kill him (dog was just barking and had not touched the guy) and yelling at me to control my crazed animal. so i did and once the leash was on, the dog responded to my command to lie down and didnt pay much attention to the guy.

 

what i think happened is that the dog was startled by the sudden movement of the guy running on the otherside of the bushes and startled the guy when he popped out on to the seawall. so after the guy stopped jumping and screaming and started to give me a lecture about having a dog on a leash and learning to control my animal etc i asked him why he was screaming when it was obvious the dog was not going to eat him.

 

he says... I'm afraid of dogs.

 

huh? you do know you are in a dog park, right????

 

he says yes and starts to go on about it being his right to use the seawall and that dogs shouldnt be allowed off leash in that area. basically, i cut him off and said, well they are allowed, the big sign says so and told him he was an idiot and the next dog he screams at and flails his arms at may just bite him and it would be his fault. dude you're running in a dog park and you are afraid of dogs, you don't think they can't smell the fear on you, you're an idiot and have a nice day.

 

but i did learn a lesson about dogs and dog training that day. Rex didnt get to go back to the dog park until he was voice command and visual command trained. it took about 6 months of hard daily training with ADHD dog but we got there.

 

so had it been me, i probably would have given them the whatfore with the same line... dude, you're in a dog park. with dogs. and check the language at the door, there's kids around.

[zed]

I think the fisherman was in the wrong here.

 

On another dog note (highjack sorry) I camped near water valley this weekend and was blown away by the number of un-leashed dogs at the campground. It seemed like every camp had 1-3 dogs. Saw a half dozen dog fights, hear about 10 others. One of the guys from our camp was bitten by one as he was asking the neighbor camp if they would like to join us for some beverages. I was afraid to let my kids walk around the campground. Another thing that bothered my was 1/3 of the dogs seemed to be either pitbulls or pittbull cross. Never understood why guys would go out of their way to own a pittbull.

 

:Hi jack:

 

small penis syndrome

 

[yak]

lynn, were they on the dog park side or on the carburn park side? not that it matters, i have owned dogs and i have taken my dog to the southland dog park and definately would not bother fishing there. most dogs behave like little yard apes and the owners do not train their dogs to respond to commands all the time, no exceptions.

 

kind of an exercise in aggrevation. regardless of where you are fishing and how well intentioned the dog owner is and trying not to disturb you, you are still dealing with mother nature. water currents that change, dogs who are distracted by, well, everything, fish moving about, beavers sneaking up on to purposely scare the crap out of you, but that's another song. you just can't guarantee that a ball or a dog isnt going to make it's way into someone's pool or riffle or back eddy. .

 

nonetheless, many, many years ago i had a great dane german shepard X. a lovely but high strug animal. in West Vancouver there is a dog park at one end of the beach. running the length of the beach is a seawall that runs close to 30 +/- full city blocks. about 5 of those are separated for the dog park with great big signs saying "CAUTION DOG PARK, OFF LEASH AREA, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK" doesnt leave much room for misunderstandings.

 

 

at this point in time was 18, young, dumb, with a big dog that i had recently adopted and only partially trained who had been badly abused. looking back, i should not have had the dog in an off leash area until he was properly trained.

 

so there i am playing fetch on the big grassy field on a rainny day. there weren't that many people around so i had let the dog off the leash. the seawall was blocked from sight from the field by several bushes. so i was throwing the ball and the dog was running after the ball, took a hard left and ran into the bushes about 30ft in front of me and i hear this guy start screaming.

 

i think that the dog is mauling this guy so i run over, but the dog is barking. really hard to talk and bite at the same time, so at that point i imagine that the dog probably isnt eating this guy and i get over the bushes.

 

Rex was a big dog and kind of scary looking, i will admit that and he had a big bark to go along with it. here's this skinny middle aged runner in his 1980's slit up the side running shorts (in 1994) and head band screaming at the top of his lungs in a high pitched 8 year old girl kind of tone, flailing his arms at the dog and jumping in one spot.

 

i actually started laughing when i got there to see what the commotion was within 15 - 30 seconds of the whole thing starting. the guy is yelling that my dog was going to kill him (dog was just barking and had not touched the guy) and yelling at me to control my crazed animal. so i did and once the leash was on, the dog responded to my command to lie down and didnt pay much attention to the guy.

 

what i think happened is that the dog was startled by the sudden movement of the guy running on the otherside of the bushes and startled the guy when he popped out on to the seawall. so after the guy stopped jumping and screaming and started to give me a lecture about having a dog on a leash and learning to control my animal etc i asked him why he was screaming when it was obvious the dog was not going to eat him.

 

he says... I'm afraid of dogs.

 

huh? you do know you are in a dog park, right????

 

he says yes and starts to go on about it being his right to use the seawall and that dogs shouldnt be allowed off leash in that area. basically, i cut him off and said, well they are allowed, the big sign says so and told him he was an idiot and the next dog he screams at and flails his arms at may just bite him and it would be his fault. dude you're running in a dog park and you are afraid of dogs, you don't think they can't smell the fear on you, you're an idiot and have a nice day.

 

but i did learn a lesson about dogs and dog training that day. Rex didnt get to go back to the dog park until he was voice command and visual command trained. it took about 6 months of hard daily training with ADHD dog but we got there.

 

so had it been me, i probably would have given them the whatfore with the same line... dude, you're in a dog park. with dogs. and check the language at the door, there's kids around.

"going to a dog park and expecting not to be bothered by dogs is like going to a elementary school yard during recess with your pants down and expecting not to be arrested. it just aint going to happen and to expect otherwise is idiocy"

LS,

I know we have had difference of opinions in the past but that analogy just about made me choke on my doughnut . Thx for starting my day with a good laugh.

Yak

[seanbritt]

Yes, I second that thanks for that analogy...made for a great friday morning! Made me think these guys are similar to the focus of a joke I heard last week:

 

What are a redneck's last words (or in this case, these guys): hold my beer and watch this!

[Teck71]

on the point of Pitties,

 

Never owned one, but a friend of mine has three, they are the 3 of the best trained dogs I have ever met.

pitties are smart, loyal, athletic animals. there undoing is the fact that most people buy them for the wrong reasons, and the wrong people buy them.

to train a dog as smart as a pitpull, you have to be an strong willed, consistant trainer. it is not a dog for the type of person who is compensating.

 

me I am a retriever or heeler type personally.

 

Teck

[seanbritt]

Good point Teck. If fact, in the parking lot of Southland yesterday I saw a truck that hat a pitbull sticker on it that read "punish the trainer, not the breed". I thought that pretty well summed up the truth about not just pitbulls, but all dogs.

 

 

[yak]

Good point Teck. If fact, in the parking lot of Southland yesterday I saw a truck that hat a pitbull sticker on it that read "punish the trainer, not the breed". I thought that pretty well summed up the truth about not just pitbulls, but all dogs.

I understand that not all pitt bull owners are skinhead gang memebers, but what kind of punishment to you dole out to the owner when a pitty mauls and kills a kid(or an adult for that matter)? Happens all the time with pits and mastiffs(2 incidents reported by CNN just last week in the states involving kids being killed). Other breeds may bite but they dont generally dont press an attack after the first bite.Pitts and mastiffs have been bred to kill, and generally once they hit red zone, the end result is usually pretty harsh. Even the best owner cant garantee that something that is parts of the dogs natural breeding is 100% under control. I believe they have been banned in one of the eastern provinces ( ontario?)

[Teck71]

True, they are a powerful, intelligent dog. that require a powerful, intelligent trainer/owner. but to say that they were bred to kill is wrong you can not breed to kill you can breed to to be effeicent at what you do they are strong, intelligent loyal dogs, dominant dogs, and have been selectivly bred to be that way. so as an owner you have to be the alpha to a very dominant dog and not many people have the time and patience to be that.

 

now as for Mastifs it is not a breed it is a class that includes Newf's, st.bernards, bernese mountaindogs, bull dogs, danes, caine corso, and on and on. and depaending on that breed you get the bred characteristics.

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on the same note no dog should be at an off leash unless the owner has control in any situation. you call the dog should come. if not keep the leash on you don't have control.

 

 

 

 

[Christofficer]

on the point of Pitties,

 

Never owned one, but a friend of mine has three, they are the 3 of the best trained dogs I have ever met.

pitties are smart, loyal, athletic animals. there undoing is the fact that most people buy them for the wrong reasons, and the wrong people buy them.

to train a dog as smart as a pitpull, you have to be an strong willed, consistant trainer. it is not a dog for the type of person who is compensating.

 

me I am a retriever or heeler type personally.

 

Teck

My uncle has grown and raised 3 of them, and I've been around them most of my life. They are loyal, smart, and affectionate dogs. But I'd hate to break it to you that pitbulls, no matter how well trained they are or raised, are unpredictable dogs. When I was 12 i was at my uncle's for a visit, he had a tan pitbull that knew me since his birth, and who I used to visit regularily. The dog used to sleep with me and not his owner when I'd stay the night, so obviously the dog liked me most. The dog used to come with me everywhere. He wouldn't even get upset if me and my uncle or my uncle and my dad horsed around. But one night I was sitting on the couch watching tv, he was laying beside me, and for no apparent reason he jumped up and bit my hand. I still have no idea why he did that. My point is, no matter how well trained or gentle they are, they're generally unstable minded dogs.

 

 

Now for the topic at hand, fishing near a dog park and not expecting to be pestered is merely a case of sheer stupidity, imo.

 

The thing that bothers me is how people can't read signs properly and let their dogs run wild in on leash areas. I've lost hope in all dog owners over the years. That's why I own the better and much smarter house pet, CATS!!!!

[ladystrange]

"going to a dog park and expecting not to be bothered by dogs is like going to a elementary school yard during recess with your pants down and expecting not to be arrested. it just aint going to happen and to expect otherwise is idiocy"

LS,

I know we have had difference of opinions in the past but that analogy just about made me choke on my doughnut . Thx for starting my day with a good laugh.

Yak

 

 

lol.. see, now you understand my analogies to the extreme are to make a point and get a laugh. in this case it is true...

 

glad you had laugh

[jimbow]

as a dawg owner and fly fisher i'd say that there are people in both categories that could use a good swift kick in the ass - although likely more dog owners than ff'ers. in the dog park i live by i see a lot of dog owners who have no control over their dogs, don't pick up after their dogs and are just generally not great dog owners because they don't treat their dog like a dog.

 

ff'ers ought to know that if you're fishing around dogs there is always the possibility of dogs interfering in a way that is totally frustrating/upsetting. i'd wouldn't want to be downstream of dogs that are not too far away as it only takes a moment for one or more to get in the current and come down on top of you. never fished by the southland park and would not really think to go there b/c of the dogs - unless i was accessing the river and going up or downstream.

 

i think the guys overreacted to lynn's dogs. ff'ers should try to remember that many people have no idea about ff'ing (they didn't know lynn is a ff'er) and don't think it's a problem to be around you when you're fishing - the fish are all underwater right so whats the big deal. i've have canoes land virtually on top of me downstream of calgary when i've been fishing - lack of consideration - yes but i think they also don't know what they are doing to your fishing and dont' realize that if they just moved downstream (or up) 100m or so that we could all share the riverbank.

 

i try to live by the rule that everyone is out for themself and plan accordingly (and also live and let live). that way you can be pleasantly surprised by friendly and courteous people. of course my wife is not happy with my attitude.....

 

lynn i think you showed very good restraint not to get into it with the guys.....karma will repay you and hopefull give them a kick in the ass.....