STACKS Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 please watch and email and show to everyone you know. VERRY GRAPHIC!!!! if the link doesnt work copy and paste in your addres bar. THE COVE http://milledrive.com/videos/32340/The_Cove.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Yeah an AMAZING film!! Along with "Sharkwater", as well! P please watch and email and show to everyone you know. VERRY GRAPHIC!!!! if the link doesnt work copy and paste in your addres bar. THE COVE http://milledrive.com/videos/32340/The_Cove.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STACKS Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 uberfly i havn't seen shark water, do yuo have link? where did you see it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I found Sharkwater to be absolutely devastating. STACKS: Sharkwater is pretty widely available on DVD. Any rental place should have a copy. I shall watch this film sometime in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 It's on DVD, and most of the "on demand" services have it. It has also been on many of the movie channels recently, as well. The premise is that the sharks are being slaughtered b/c of the asian demand for "shark fin soup". Huge $. Sharks, like grizzly bears are an "indicator" species!! Very interesting on how "organized crime" is involved - gov't officials being bought, etc. http://www.sharkwater.com/ P uberfly i havn't seen shark water, do yuo have link? where did you see it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 please watch and email and show to everyone you know. VERRY GRAPHIC!!!! if the link doesnt work copy and paste in your addres bar. I saw that on TV. Pretty sick insofar as they are two faced. I can understand a whaling community whaling. But these guys are trying to sell themselves as eco friendly...while doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Really!! How? Why? It's like saying I can understand the reason why people poach bull trout or kill grizzlies!! (native commuities excuded from this comment regarding whaling communities) P I can understand a whaling community whaling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadensis Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Really!! How? Why? It's like saying I can understand the reason why people poach bull trout or kill grizzlies!! (native commuities excuded from this comment regarding whaling communities) P The only whaling communities in Noth America are Native... Poaching a bull trout and legally killing a grizzly bear are two totally different things. One is a legal, managed hunt and the other, well is poaching.. BC and Alaska have very robust, stable, managed populations of Grizzlies. Saying you personally do not agree with hunting bears is one thing thing, but it is not even comparable to poaching. Peter some people cannot understand why you fish. Some of the same groups that want to ban hunting, not just bear hunting want a complete ban on sport fishing as well. You have alot more in common with someone that legally hunts bears than you give credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Are the people of that Japanese prefecture really "two-faced'? Or do they have a real life industry and that industry does not interfere with the symbols of their existence, which they celebrate? Just maybe they are mature enough in their thinking to know the difference between what has to be done to help feed a nation short of animal protein, earn a living for the local people and honouring the animals that provide that living. "The World" is infamous for it's lack of understanding for local "ways" and North Americans are infamous for being sanctimoniously judgmental. Is it the Japanese who are at fault for some TV people making millions by making dolphins into pets? Is it Canadian hunters fault that Walt Disney made millions selling "Bambi" ? Is it Newfoundlanders fault that Brigitte Bardot and that one-legged McCartney gold-digger thought seal pups were "cute"? Animal protein is very rare and expensive in Japan. Most of their protein is fish or ocean raised. Dolphin and whale are a delicacy, as is beef. The harvesting of dolphins and whales is legal in Japan. They just realize that most of the Western world is all too ready to be outraged about something they know nothing about. You don't like Al Gore coming to Alberta and telling you that the way you extract oil is wrong and a "national disgrace", do you? Well, the next time you sit down to beef dinner, remember that the plate in front of you would cost a person the equivalent of $200 in Japan. Because land is at such an absolute premium, they have to raise the most efficient crops possible, through intensive farming methods. There is minimal land for raising any animals for food. In fact, most "beef animals" are draft animals first. They have to harvest everything that is available in the ocean in order to feed their population and provide earnings for their people. Do I support the killing of dolphins and whales? No, but then I can drive 10 minutes from my place and put a bullet into a mature "Bambi" and eat fresh meat for a month, can't I? They live under different circumstances and I refuse to judge them. And I've lived in Asia and have a semblance of understanding of what it takes for people to survive. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadensis Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Are the people of that Japanese prefecture really "two-faced'? Or do they have a real life industry and that industry does not interfere with the symbols of their existence, which they celebrate? Just maybe they are mature enough in their thinking to know the difference between what has to be done to help feed a nation short of animal protein, earn a living for the local people and honouring the animals that provide that living. "The World" is infamous for it's lack of understanding for local "ways" and North Americans are infamous for being sanctimoniously judgmental. Is it the Japanese who are at fault for some TV people making millions by making dolphins into pets? Is it Canadian hunters fault that Walt Disney made millions selling "Bambi" ? Is it Newfoundlanders fault that Brigitte Bardot and that one-legged McCartney gold-digger thought seal pups were "cute"? Animal protein is very rare and expensive in Japan. Most of their protein is fish or ocean raised. Dolphin and whale are a delicacy, as is beef. The harvesting of dolphins and whales is legal in Japan. They just realize that most of the Western world is all too ready to be outraged about something they know nothing about. You don't like Al Gore coming to Alberta and telling you that the way you extract oil is wrong and a "national disgrace", do you? Well, the next time you sit down to beef dinner, remember that the plate in front of you would cost a person the equivalent of $200 in Japan. Because land is at such an absolute premium, they have to raise the most efficient crops possible, through intensive farming methods. There is minimal land for raising any animals for food. In fact, most "beef animals" are draft animals first. They have to harvest everything that is available in the ocean in order to feed their population and provide earnings for their people. Do I support the killing of dolphins and whales? No, but then I can drive 10 minutes from my place and put a bullet into a mature "Bambi" and eat fresh meat for a month, can't I? They live under different circumstances and I refuse to judge them. And I've lived in Asia and have a semblance of understanding of what it takes for people to survive. j Well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STACKS Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Are the people of that Japanese prefecture really "two-faced'? Or do they have a real life industry and that industry does not interfere with the symbols of their existence, which they celebrate? Just maybe they are mature enough in their thinking to know the difference between what has to be done to help feed a nation short of animal protein, earn a living for the local people and honouring the animals that provide that living. "The World" is infamous for it's lack of understanding for local "ways" and North Americans are infamous for being sanctimoniously judgmental. Is it the Japanese who are at fault for some TV people making millions by making dolphins into pets? Is it Canadian hunters fault that Walt Disney made millions selling "Bambi" ? Is it Newfoundlanders fault that Brigitte Bardot and that one-legged McCartney gold-digger thought seal pups were "cute"? Animal protein is very rare and expensive in Japan. Most of their protein is fish or ocean raised. Dolphin and whale are a delicacy, as is beef. The harvesting of dolphins and whales is legal in Japan. They just realize that most of the Western world is all too ready to be outraged about something they know nothing about. You don't like Al Gore coming to Alberta and telling you that the way you extract oil is wrong and a "national disgrace", do you? Well, the next time you sit down to beef dinner, remember that the plate in front of you would cost a person the equivalent of $200 in Japan. Because land is at such an absolute premium, they have to raise the most efficient crops possible, through intensive farming methods. There is minimal land for raising any animals for food. In fact, most "beef animals" are draft animals first. They have to harvest everything that is available in the ocean in order to feed their population and provide earnings for their people. Do I support the killing of dolphins and whales? No, but then I can drive 10 minutes from my place and put a bullet into a mature "Bambi" and eat fresh meat for a month, can't I? They live under different circumstances and I refuse to judge them. And I've lived in Asia and have a semblance of understanding of what it takes for people to survive. j yes they are 2 face . labeling dangerous dolphin meat , large whale is a little sideways. Why do you think they label it whale meat ? i think its becuase if it said dolphin on it alot of people wpouldnt eat it . The japanese government is letting their civilians eat highly contaiminated meat, with mercury levels of 2000 ppm. If they cared about their citizins they wouldn't harvest dolphin, dolphins have the most mercury in them becuase they are at the top of the food chain in the oceans. I personly dont think if ther was a ban on harvesting dolphins, the japanese people would suffer a lack of protien. In the move the jappanese fisherman stated that they were doing pest control. wouldn't it make more sense to say we are starving we need it? The japanese government were saying they killed the dolphins in a humane fashion, didnt look like it. When you shoot a mature bambi it is usally dead within a few minutes. Killing a animal that is as intellegent as a dolphin is ludacris, deers and cows pigs .... dont have the I.Q like a dolphin does. Dolphins are so much like humans, they have sex for pleasure not only to reproduce. The japanese people are very smart, iam sure they could figure out a way to farm dolphins, if they need it so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Ok, I should have qualified my statement to Alberta specific grizzly hunts!! The declining populations in and around Alberta CANNOT sustain a "sport" specific hunt. Realistically who actually eats grizzly?! They are slaughtered for SPORT only!! Deer on the other hand can feed people and hunts manage populations (I get that)!! The only way to "manage" grizzly bear populations is to NOT allow them to be hunted b/c there are not enough to sustain breeding populations presently (that was my comparison to bull trout populations). As far as whaling goes, yes they feed people, but again, with the declining numbers, no amount of "hunting" (mass market slaughter) can sustain their populations! And when the whaling industry purposely misleads the public by saying their whaling expeditions are "scientific" in nature, that's just not ethical no matter how you look at it!! P P.S. When I fish I practice C & R (yeah, yeah I know not 100% non fatal)! Can't really compare that to hunting (100% mortality rate)!! As well, most of the Grizzlies killed in AB by hunting (as opposed to transportation) are killed by poachers (which is much more then the alloted tags that are drawn each year with legal hunts)!! The only whaling communities in Noth America are Native... Poaching a bull trout and legally killing a grizzly bear are two totally different things. One is a legal, managed hunt and the other, well is poaching.. BC and Alaska have very robust, stable, managed populations of Grizzlies. Saying you personally do not agree with hunting bears is one thing thing, but it is not even comparable to poaching. Peter some people cannot understand why you fish. Some of the same groups that want to ban hunting, not just bear hunting want a complete ban on sport fishing as well. You have alot more in common with someone that legally hunts bears than you give credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I agree with some of what Gore,etc. states and I'm a vegetarian (so sue me!! ) The Japanese are environmental rapists!! They have devistated all the natural resources in their country and couldn't give two $hits about the environments of the industries they control around the world (look at what they do in Northern AB's logging industry)! P You don't like Al Gore coming to Alberta and telling you that the way you extract oil is wrong and a "national disgrace", do you? Well, the next time you sit down to beef dinner, remember that the plate in front of you would cost a person the equivalent of $200 in Japan. Because land is at such an absolute premium, they have to raise the most efficient crops possible, through intensive farming methods. There is minimal land for raising any animals for food. In fact, most "beef animals" are draft animals first. They have to harvest everything that is available in the ocean in order to feed their population and provide earnings for their people. Do I support the killing of dolphins and whales? No, but then I can drive 10 minutes from my place and put a bullet into a mature "Bambi" and eat fresh meat for a month, can't I? They live under different circumstances and I refuse to judge them. And I've lived in Asia and have a semblance of understanding of what it takes for people to survive. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adc Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 While we're on this, I'll bet everyone is against the Canadian seal hunt as well??...........Let's be careful here, folks....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadensis Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 P.S. When I fish I practice C & R (yeah, yeah I know not 100% non fatal)! Can't really compare that to hunting (100% mortality rate)!! As well, most of the Grizzlies killed in AB by hunting (as opposed to transportation) are killed by poachers (which is much more then the alloted tags that are drawn each year with legal hunts)!! First off there is no Grizzly hunt in Alberta, has not been for a few years. Poaching is a totally seperate issue and confused why you keep dragging it into this discussion?? And yes you can compare fishing with hunting, even C&R. They are both a managed activity under the same agency; both activities are based on principals (science) of wildlife conservation and management. The point I want to get across is just because you choose to C&R fish does not make you morally superior to someone who legally hunts, yes even bears; You are both consumptive users of a renewable resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Against?! yes and no! The brutality of how they kill, yes!! Do they really need to beat a pup senseless?! Again, if the populations can sustain the "hunt" and they don't torture the animals, then no. Now of course I'm just going on what the "propaganda" shows... I mean, who wears fur now-a-days any way! P While we're on this, I'll bet everyone is against the Canadian seal hunt as well??...........Let's be careful here, folks....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadensis Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 While we're on this, I'll bet everyone is against the Canadian seal hunt as well??...........Let's be careful here, folks....... I support it 100%. I even have a few tins of seal meat from Magdalen Island in the pantry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 So how does grizzly taste anyway?! My point is/was that grizzlies aren't hunted for food (are they?)! My comments were directed to the "proponents" of grizzly hunts in AB - b/c they argue that it is their right to hunt grizzlies even knowing that they are a threatened species. And for the record, I never did state that a I was against hunting (I understand the "management" of wildlife ) nor that I am "morally superior" to anyone! P First off there is no Grizzly hunt in Alberta, has not been for a few years. Poaching is a totally seperate issue and confused why you keep dragging it into this discussion?? And yes you can compare fishing with hunting, even C&R. They are both a managed activity under the same agency; both activities are based on principals of wildlife conservation and management. The point I want to get across is just because you choose to C&R fish does not make you morally superior to someone who legally hunts, yes even bears; You are both consumptive users of a renewable resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadensis Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 So how does grizzly taste anyway?! My point is/was that grizzlies aren't hunted for food (are they?)! My comments were directed to the "proponents" of grizzly hunts in AB - b/c they argue that it is their right to hunt grizzlies even knowing that they are a threatened species. And for the record, I never did state that a I was against hunting (I understand the "management" of wildlife ) nor that I am "morally superior" to anyone! P Glad to hear you are not against hunting. In some of your posts you refer to a Grizzly hunt as a "slaughter", and hunting not comparable to C&R fishing, then you mentioned "poaching" in the same posts, mentioned you were a vegan, so it got a bit confusing; it had the tone that you were against hunting. Thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Again, I must qualify my previous statements!! Yes I do feel that grizzlies are "slaughtered" b/c they are just killed for sport (pelts, gallbladders, etc.) and not for food! So no confusion with that part of my statement - I did say that and stand by what I said! I don't hunt, I'm not "against" hunting per se (legal and ethical hunting practices) but at the same time, I don't personally "agree" with hunting (yes there is a difference). P Glad to hear you are not against hunting. In some of your posts you refer to a Grizzly hunt as a "slaughter", and hunting not comparable to C&R fishing, then you mentioned "poaching in the same posts, so it got a bit confusing. It had the tone that you were against hunting. Thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adc Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I support it 100%. I even have a few tins of seal meat from Magdalen Island in the pantry. Good to hear.......I think the sensationalism that our seal hunt gets in protest is not unlike the dolphin issue........Because alot of folks see them as cute and cuddly as in the case of baby seals or friendly pets (Flipper) in the case of dolphins, our emotions over-ride common sense.........Not saying that killing dolphins is good/bad/right, just stating a fact about the human psyche.......We jump on the bandwagon too quickly for alot of things (anthropogenic global warming) based largely on emotion and not fact.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadensis Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Good to hear.......I think the sensationalism that our seal hunt gets in protest is not unlike the dolphin issue........Because alot of folks see them as cute and cuddly as in the case of baby seals or friendly pets (Flipper) in the case of dolphins, our emotions over-ride common sense.........Not saying that killing dolphins is good/bad/right, just stating a fact about the human psyche.......We jump on the bandwagon too quickly for alot of things (anthropogenic global warming) based largely on emotion and not fact.............. I was never a Michaëlle Jean fan until she ate some of that raw seal meat, way to go Michaëlle! Now they want seal meat on the menu on Parliment Hill! They are a pile of them in the sea so if people want to kill them for fur and meat then get at 'er! Ity is not like they are just killing them in an unsustainable way either, all on quota with a season. Very managed and sustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I agree with some of what Gore,etc. states and I'm a vegetarian (so sue me!! ) The Japanese are environmental rapists!! They have devistated all the natural resources in their country and couldn't give two $hits about the environments of the industries they control around the world (look at what they do in Northern AB's logging industry)! P Equally well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Really!! How? Why? It's like saying I can understand the reason why people poach bull trout or kill grizzlies!! (native commuities excuded from this comment regarding whaling communities) P I am not clear if we are starting a verbal agreement versus a disagreement. I believe in a societies right to their traditional beliefs and hunting practices and an individuals rights to hunt for meat within a managed hunt. That being said I do not believe any traditional beliefs should be transfered into a commercial enterprise that can do some devastation to an animal population. Warning...not intend to hijack... I believe natives in Alberta and Canada should have the right to their traditional hunting grounds (public lands) within a management programs for subsistance living...not commercial sale. I also believe that means only bow and arrow and not guns. They can't use an excuse to pillage the wildlife by complaining we destroyed their traditional ways of life and how they can't conform to rest of societies rights and expectations...and use guns at the same time. Guns were a benefit of European influence... They did not have them before which unfortunately when ever you have a hunter gathering society around and they become to efficient at hunting...they end up killing everything they can. If a bow is traditional...they use the bow. I believe if this Japanese community has hunted dolphins for eons...for subsistance...just like some Inuit peoples then they should be allowed to continue to do so. I don't believe in ripping intelligent animals away from family groups and shipping them to zoos and aquariums. I also don't currently believe that whales (being smarter than most animals) should be included in a commercial hunt...in fact I am currently opposed to it. In fact when I see this community is preaching eco tourism and whale watching while doing this to their local population...is well...what clearly sickens me. I believe in the right to seal hunts that are managed. I don't necessarily believe in hunting for a wall trophy. That includes shooting a grizzly purely to shoot an animal for a wall. If grizzly's are causing serious problems to people and livestock...a hunt now and again may keep them away. I am less opposed for that reason. I don't believe in poaching. You may have seen my prior posts on the matter. I don't believe in the scope of Japanese regulations...this is deemed illegal behavoir or poaching however. In a nutshell...not sure where you stand on my comments. Cheers Sun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 So are we saying that it is ok if a few dolphins, or a few thousand, get killed? Seriously? I've fed them in the wild before. Not at some damn ocean theme park, 100% wild dolphins. So basically it is ok to off the next smartest beings on the planet? So I couldn't give the slightest rats ass (sorry Jack) what the $%#@ the Japanese hunt for food. They fish out water then move on to other peoples water. There are lots of things societies used to do that we don't do any more. Killing dolphins is just flat wrong. Good lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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