This is what I was saying with the Patagonia ones... They work well, but don't last long (I got a bit longer life from the Simms - but still not worth the $ in my opinion). The other issue is the hole that they make - you will end up losing anything else you might use in the future (KK or Simms) b/c they have a smaller diameter thread... So if you buy 100 pack, then you can swap out as they wear. Definitely better value buying from a Hardware store. Might get better life from KK or the MEC ones?