Sos...

[Guest Sundancefisher]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/found+Go...8209/story.html

 

 

There are two parts to this story.

 

Firstly this couple from Quebec did absolutely everything wrong. They were stupid, reckless and irresponsible while out skiing. They told know one of their plans, they had no hotel room in which to be check up on, their car was not evident, they skied out of bounds, they had no proper survival gear, poor outdoor clothing, not enough food or water etc. He accepts no blame but sadly he really should.

 

Secondly, our search and rescue system is clearly flawed. The heli skiing group told the right people multiple times about an SOS call. Supposedly there is a system of checks and balances to look for people missing that are 1) reported missing 2) car left in parking lot 3) rooms un-used 4) rental gear not returned. Someone then tells someone who tells someone who then has to tell the RCMP or military or a search is not started. Clearly there should be multiple groups with the power to call for a search in case you have an individual or individuals with one group that is an idiot.

 

Sadly it appears the system designed to save idiots had idiots in charge at some level.

 

Hopefully this gets corrected and hopefully this Quebec guy mans up and says "yes we screwed up...yes we made a fatal mistake and yes I am sad the system also let me down".

 

Sincerely

 

Sun

 

[dube]

It's tough call because technically if you ski out of bounds you are doing so at your own risk. On the other hand I would hope that S&R would investigate after the first SOS sighting regardless of all the other "checks". Of course they don't want to waste resources but why else would there be any sort of distress signal out of bounds. I don't know anybody who would play a prank like that for no reason. After seeing it twice there should have been no question and initiated a search pronto.

 

It's a sad story but even more sad is that people don't get it. It happens all the time, someone looks over a ridge and it looks real juicy so they decide to just pop over and have a little taste and next thing you know you have an 8 hour hike out. It's nearly impossible to move around in that snow with out skis or snowshoes so you are pretty much hooped.

 

Also, it's one thing to explore at a hill you know well but to do so at an unknown resort is foolish. Someone got lost and spent the night at Revy last year ON OPENING DAY!!!!!!! People are just dying to get fresh tracks and don't pay attention. These are not environments to be taken lightly. A little 10 minute dip can get you in deep trouble.

 

I feel bad for the guy because his wife perished, which must have been so painful for him, but at the same time use your head folks.

[JMasson]

It's tough call because technically if you ski out of bounds you are doing so at your own risk. On the other hand I would hope that S&R would investigate after the first SOS sighting regardless of all the other "checks". Of course they don't want to waste resources but why else would there be any sort of distress signal out of bounds. I don't know anybody who would play a prank like that for no reason. After seeing it twice there should have been no question and initiated a search pronto.

 

It's a sad story but even more sad is that people don't get it. It happens all the time, someone looks over a ridge and it looks real juicy so they decide to just pop over and have a little taste and next thing you know you have an 8 hour hike out. It's nearly impossible to move around in that snow with out skis or snowshoes so you are pretty much hooped.

 

Also, it's one thing to explore at a hill you know well but to do so at an unknown resort is foolish. Someone got lost and spent the night at Revy last year ON OPENING DAY!!!!!!! People are just dying to get fresh tracks and don't pay attention. These are not environments to be taken lightly. A little 10 minute dip can get you in deep trouble.

 

I feel bad for the guy because his wife perished, which must have been so painful for him, but at the same time use your head folks.

 

Search and Rescue can't initiate a search without authorization from the RCMP or local law enforcement. I know it sounds ridiculous but they have absolutely no authority to issue orders for a search without first getting the go-ahead from the police. Ski Patrols can initiate a search but don't really have the manpower or resources to take on a large scale operations without the RCMP or S&R teams on-site to assist. And any search, especially in the back country, is a large scale operation requiring a mind boggling amount of logistical support and very compotent and highly skilled people to do the actual S&R.

 

Clearly this SOS should've been taken seriously the first time it was spotted. At the very least they should've sent a small team into the area to investigate.

 

Also, you can't just write SOS in the snow and then leave. You have to be in the immediate area so that anyone that sees the SOS will also see a human and know that it is serious. I know that no one that saw the SOS saw this man in the immediate area...at least the first time.

 

Being in the backcountry is obviously not something to take lightly. You're ususally hours away from the nearest road and several more hours away from the nearest medical attention. In this case, being unprepared and having a lack of knowledge cost someone their life. Truly a sad situation, any way you look at it.

[SQUATCHER]

this tragedy is a wake up call to all those who venture out into the mountains. for me, it was a sad day to hear somebody passed away while in this situation. this happens all too often. unprepared, unskilled or unable to adapt to a situation we figured would never happen to us. most have lost theyre basic survival skills only to have them replaced with city skills. my heart goes out to the family involved. the least we can do is better prepare ourselves for the impossible. to all those who fish alone, high in the rockies, it would be VERY easy to break an ankle or leg. are you prepared to spend a night or more up there?

[ladystrange]

the only thing i have read in the newspaper so far was that they were found and had wandered 30km in the other direction from the in bounds ski area.

 

i think the first thing that went through my mind was, they walked 30km in the wrong direction and kept on going??

 

i used to wander off as a kid, so my mom, always said if you are lost - stay put, it is easier to be found when you stay in place.

 

so if he made an SOS in the snow, and it was seen the first time, where was he, why did he continue to wander rather than stay near by?

 

the other thing that the paper mentioned was that on the 3rd SOS seen by the heli guide, the guide actually saw him waving his hands. i suspect that if the heli hadnt been there at the same time, he would have continued to walk and not been found.

 

i cant fault the RCMP for waiting. no one reported them missing, no cars were abandoned in the lot at the ski hill, none of the hotels had them checked in. there would be no reason to think there was anyone missing. unfortunately we would all like to think that no one would jokingly stamp out an SOS in the snow, just to see what would happen, but really, i did know a few teens who thought it would be funny. it was a long time ago and they were 15ish, they got in to a lot of trouble. so it happens.

[dube]

Anyone own or looked into those emergency locate beacons,it works on a gps signal. I always fish alone and think it would be something good to have...if it actually worked.

[birchy]

Anyone own or looked into those emergency locate beacons,it works on a gps signal. I always fish alone and think it would be something good to have...if it actually worked.

 

Yeah... CDock and myself are thinking of going splits on one..

[JMasson]

As far as PLB's are concerned there are a couple points that you should be aware of. First, make sure you get one with that transmits on 406 Hz (a digital signal) that can be picked up by GEOSAR satellites roughly 99.3% of the time. I believe that GEOSAR will ignore transmissions from 121.5 or 243 (analog) transponders, as of January or February 2009. The analog transponders will often not penetrate through heavy bush or debris. Also, the GEOSAR satellites provide almost instant coverage 70 degrees North and South of the equator and polar and artic regions have much reduced coverage due to the Northern and Southern latitudes. Registration, in Canada, is mandatory and must be registered with the National Search and Rescue Secretariat (NSS)...it's free, by the way. When registered and if activated the beacon will transmit personal information to the satellite and from there it will be sent to a MCC (Mission Control Center). The code has information such as phone numbers, callsigns of ships, aircraft or vehicles and other personal contact information that is valuable to SAR and the local authorities. From what I understand the 406 Hz beacons are accurate to about +/- 15m and due to a strong signal are not adversely affected by movement of the beacon. They're not perfect but they can be a handy thing to have if they are needed.

 

Oh, you also don't want to activate your beacon in an area where local emergency response is close by. SAR resources are scarce and the national budget is very tight. Almost all SAR assets are volunteer based and it's a shame to waste the resources if they're not necessary.

[SQUATCHER]

sounds like an expensive gimmick. a note left on your windshield could still be yer best bet.

 

[ladystrange]

sounds like an expensive gimmick. a note left on your windshield could still be yer best bet.

 

and say what, gone fishing, back by 5 if a bear doesnt eat me. oh, btw, i went that way. then hope that someone notices the note on your window that could easily blow away in a strong wind, not uncommon. i think i would rather have a transponder at least then i would feel comfortable knowing that someone would know exactly where i am within 15m. close enough for horseshoes and handgranades

[SQUATCHER]

and say what, gone fishing, back by 5 if a bear doesnt eat me. oh, btw, i went that way. then hope that someone notices the note on your window that could easily blow away in a strong wind, not uncommon. i think i would rather have a transponder at least then i would feel comfortable knowing that someone would know exactly where i am within 15m. close enough for horseshoes and handgranades

you missed my point. what if nobody is monitoring yer channel? batts get wet? you drop it? its electronic...and comes with a warrenty against factory defects. hmmm? wish i had left a note on my windshield. but you do what you want. the skiiers did! and guess what...yer right, thats exactly what you write. leave the date too, so the FWO knows how long you been missing. windy out today? try an elastic. my point is this...dont rely on one piece of equipment to save yer life. if it works...awesome, great investment. but what if the bear eats that? seriously. then what? you gotta follow it around, waiting for it to take a dump. when all you had to do was leave a note.

 

 

[birchy]

you missed my point. what if nobody is monitoring yer channel? batts get wet? you drop it? its electronic...and comes with a warrenty against factory defects. hmmm? wish i had left a note on my windshield. but you do what you want. the skiiers did! and guess what...yer right, thats exactly what you write. leave the date too, so the FWO knows how long you been missing. windy out today? try an elastic. my point is this...dont rely on one piece of equipment to save yer life. if it works...awesome, great investment. but what if the bear eats that? seriously. then what? you gotta follow it around, waiting for it to take a dump. when all you had to do was leave a note.

 

 

LMAO! Okay.. Squatcher's got the "quote of the year" so far..

[rehsifylf]

Of all the things to fear - getting lost in the woods and dying is probably near the bottom of my list. Yes - it happens, but dying on the deerfoot is higher up my list, and heart disease tops my list.

 

 

[JMasson]

you missed my point. what if nobody is monitoring yer channel? batts get wet? you drop it? its electronic...and comes with a warrenty against factory defects. hmmm? wish i had left a note on my windshield. but you do what you want. the skiiers did! and guess what...yer right, thats exactly what you write. leave the date too, so the FWO knows how long you been missing. windy out today? try an elastic. my point is this...dont rely on one piece of equipment to save yer life. if it works...awesome, great investment. but what if the bear eats that? seriously. then what? you gotta follow it around, waiting for it to take a dump. when all you had to do was leave a note.

 

GEOSAR (Geographical Synthetic Aperture Radar) continually monitors all PLB transmitting on 406 Hz...there are six satellites that are orbiting around the equator that will always pick up the transmissions (within seconds). The moment they are activated the transmission is sent to a MCC (Mission Control Center), via Cospas-Sarsat (the information distribution system linked to GEOSAR) and a response plan is implemented from there. Local authorities are notified and, if necessary, a SAR (Search and Rescue) mission is undertaken. So, somebody is always monitoring your "channel". These are not simple radio beacons and someone does not have to walk around with an antenna and headset listening to beaps. They are waterproof so you can swim down a river and they will still work. You are encouraged to test your PLB shortly after you purchase it and certainly before you travel in the back country with it for the first time. There are ways to test them without triggering a SAR response. It's the same technology that is used by every single plane in the world. Just smaller, lighter and is not activated by G-forces (meaning you have to actually turn it on). No, they are not fool-proof but they have saved several lives in the past.

 

I absolutely agree that you should not solely rely on a PLB to save your life. You should travel with a friend, inform family of your destination, departure and ETA and if you want to, leave a note on your windshield.

 

 

[Guest Sundancefisher]

LMAO! Okay.. Squatcher's got the "quote of the year" so far..

 

LMFAO...

 

Hmmm... If I get one I am going to coat it in arsenic laced peanut butter then. I get the last laugh on that bear then!

[Pipestoneflyguy]

Lady - the reason they were moving was to get closer to helicopter traffic which they could hear going by in the distance.

 

They best thing a person can do is leave a trip itinerary with someone you trust. This must include your timelines, route and destination, who is in your party, and where you are parking with vehicle details, - plus you obviously should set a specific time at which your trusted friend will approach authorities if you have not returned as scheduled. Many area's offer a free registration service, for example in the Lake Louise area you can register your plans with the local visitor reception centre, if you fail to check in as scheduled, Parks will initiate steps to find you.

 

Last year I had to threaten breaking a relationship with a fishing partner because he would constantly say we were going one place when we were actually going somewhere else, his idea was that our wives wouldn't inadvertantly give away our spots (Geez its not like we were fishing the fountain of youth or something) anyway for obvious reasons this was a foolish practice I wanted no part of - if something happened all efforts would be in the wrong place.

 

I saw this happen first hand - some of you probably remember 14 years ago three teenage kids went missing out of bounds at Ski Louise for 3 days - 2 of the kids were first year who made the typical mistake of trusting someone who had been in the mountains for a couple years but in reality had no skills what-so-ever. The 2 newbies were roommates of mine and further to trusting the wrong guy (who took them down pumpkin bowl instead of purple bowl which is 180 deg in the wrong direction) they also told all their friends they were going one place when they actually went somewhere else so the first two days of searching were focused in the wrong area. Only by the grace of god were these lucky enough to stumble across the Baker Creek cross country trail and find their way out - hours before this happened, after three days of searching in heavy weather the Wardens had just cancelled the search (assuming they must have been buried in an avalanche or some othe fate) so these kids were very lucky despite some remarkably bad decisions.

 

I think the proliferation of electronoc devices is a wonderful thing for improving ovewall safety but the trend to depend on these things is really scary. Heavy snow fall or even heavy cloud cover can render GPS based devices completly useless - I carry a Sat phone and a GPS, problem is that huge areas behind mountain shadows recieve no reception, what if I break a leg in one of these spots, I would be hooped ! It is stunning to me that folks don't ALWAYS posses some basic orienteering skils and carry both map and compass and clearly understand how to use them. Even Park radios have limitation and are subject to failure at repeater stations, and of course cell phones are marginal at the best of times.

 

There is no better approach than leaving good details with someone you trust. (PS also make sure your trusted person knows who to actually contact if you don't return as scheduled as well)

 

PS be realistic with your return/response deadline - for example My wife knows not to call for help unless I am 12 hours late returning, as I am capable of surviving a night out and would not want a search initiated given I might decide to bunker-down rather travel during an unexpected storm, for example. This is a personal judgement

 

R~

 

 

 

 

[flyfishfairwx]

Guys I carry the SPOT now and feel it is the best for what I do ... I am not a skier or Snowboarder but I do spent a heck of a lot of time outside in the winter...(around Rivers)

 

I have used the SPOTS "OK" button with only the smallest view of the sky and my messages have gotten through...

 

Granted it would not work (I believe) if buried under lots of snow... but I have confidence that if I screw up and get hurt or lost, the SPOT will get at least alert somebody as to my where about's...

 

For those interested here is the link ... I am not a sponsor of the SPOT... just recognize a good tool to have in the woods when I see one...

 

http://www.findmespot.ca/en/

 

Heavy cloud cover and heavy snow fall have not in the past compromised the spot.. I agree with PSFG.. in that having the basics and a good back up team of informed friends and family is of the utmost importance... but 12 hrs may be 11 hrs too long... or 11hrs and 55 min too long..

 

The SPOT gives a higher piece of mind if you change plans as you can signal that you are OK..

 

I test the spot out side my door before leaving LA and wait for the msg to get to the wife..

 

As a bit of back ground I have spent 24 yrs in the CDN Army, Boys scouts and grew up hiking and camping, Fly fishing and, ran orienteering races in HS..

 

The SPOT is not the only tool I carry or rely on, but I think it is a good one to have ..