What Weight Rods?

[TimD]

I like to land fish fast so I use an 8 wt for streamers and bobber fishing and a 6 for dries. I have been known to go down to a 5 wt for Stauffer and the Crow.

 

Regards,

 

Tim

[hydropsyche]

Just rambling some thoughts out.

 

The weight of a rod is designed to toss the appropriate weight fly line more so then how big a fish you plan on catching. I can land a fish just as fast on my 3wt then my 6wt (they will both have the same size tippet on the end). Within reason. I wouldn't want to catch a 26in Brown on my one weight (fear the rod would break).

 

So what determines which rod to use, for me, is how windy it is. I'd rather cast a 6wt line in the wind then a 3wt. Or how spooky the fish is (dry fly = 3wt), or how much gear I'm chucking (sjw rig = 6wt). Or how far I need to cast, etc.

 

As you can tell, my vote is for a 3wt and a 6wt (and a 1wt for those dinks).

[TimD]

Just rambling some thoughts out.

 

The weight of a rod is designed to toss the appropriate weight fly line more so then how big a fish you plan on catching. I can land a fish just as fast on my 3wt then my 6wt (they will both have the same size tippet on the end). Within reason. I wouldn't want to catch a 26in Brown on my one weight (fear the rod would break).

 

So what determines which rod to use, for me, is how windy it is. I'd rather cast a 6wt line in the wind then a 3wt. Or how spooky the fish is (dry fly = 3wt), or how much gear I'm chucking (sjw rig = 6wt). Or how far I need to cast, etc.

 

As you can tell, my vote is for a 3wt and a 6wt (and a 1wt for those dinks).

 

Yep, the number on the rod is about the line it casts. The higher the number the more backbone the rod is supposed to have, maybe your 3wt is under-rated or perhaps you have a weenie 6wt. I have seen rods rated as a fast 4 wt when they were actually a medium 6. It is all relative brother. Higher weighted rods are designed for bigger fish. How would your 3wt deal with steelhead?

 

For me, dealing with the wind has more about casting technique than rod wt. I am not that worried about rod weight with presentation, I have caught spooky fish with all different weights of rods.

 

Regards,

 

Tim

[Guest bigbadbrent]

It's about fish landing technique, over backbone..

 

Or at least some guy named Jim Mclennan says that....dunno who he is though

[TimD]

It's about fish landing technique, over backbone..

 

Or at least some guy named Jim Mclennan says that....dunno who he is though

 

Brother Brent,

 

All things being equal, it is about backbone. Jim is a good guy who plays a mean guitar and flyrod.

 

 

Tim

[Ricinus]

It's about fish landing technique, over backbone..

 

Or at least some guy named Jim Mclennan says that....dunno who he is though

 

That's probably true to a certain point, but if you have a big fish sulking at the bottom in a fast current I think you need a little backbone to haul him out of there.

 

Regards Mike

[Guest bigbadbrent]

Brother Brent,

 

All things being equal, it is about backbone. Jim is a good guy who plays a mean guitar and flyrod.

Tim

 

 

good point. Add good technique to good backbone, you'll be pulling 24"ers in mere seconds!

[hydropsyche]

Are we forgetting about the tippet? That is the ulimate determinator as to wether backbone can be applied, is it not? Either the rod breaks or the tippet does. If I was fishing for stealhead, I wouldn't be using the 3wt but I also won't be using 4x tippet or a size 16 fly (and I wouldn't be fishing in Alberta).

 

And you guessed it Tim, I do have an under rated 3wt (Dancraft FT - fast) and compared to that, the 6wt is a moderate action (Five Rivers).

[reevesr1]

7'6" 3 wt, 9 ft 5 wt, 9 ft 8 wt. Picked the 8 over a 7 because of saltwater needs. Vast majority of my fishing is with the 5, but can't wait to fish the 3 wt this summer!

 

I did play around with a fast 6 wt a couple of weeks ago and loved bombing out a pretty heavy nymph rig with it. Trying to avoid buying it, because at some point it gets kinda silly.

[Guest bigbadbrent]

lol now that we're naming rods

 

8' 4 weight

9 foot 5 weight (3 of them, 2 2 pieces, 1 4 pieces...yes, 3 of them and another coming june 1st.)

9 foot 6 weight

13'6" 7 weight

9' 8 weight

7' 11' 290 gr (so a 10ish weight) coming june 1st.

 

I have like 9-10 reels and the odd spool

 

i think its obvious the rod weight i use the most

 

Hopefully i'll tone down the rod buying before my tax check actually shows up

 

wish list:

7136 Sage Z-Axis (or TCR)

7'6" #3 Scott G2

7' #000 Sage TXL

[Brownstone]

when in rome ..

 

5wt 9' 2 pc Sage Z-Axis (bow dry fly & small river rod)

5wt 8' 2 pc Pflueger Trion (super slow noodle, little fish rod)

7wt 9'6" 4 pc Sage xp (nymph/streamer)

7wt 9' 4 pc TFO TiCr (spare)

7/8 wt 10' 3 pc Spring Creek (was nymphing rod til I got my XP)

7/8 9' 2 pc Mitchell (retired, first fly rod I bought on my own)

9 wt 14' 4 pc Loop Black Line .. (havn't quite figured out what this is for yet)

[Guest bigbadbrent]

can't wait for my Z-axis to come in

[maxwell]

lmao uhh.. yall should stay on topic... not about how many rods u own..... wich 2 do u want.........

[Guest bigbadbrent]

for alberta, i want a

8'6" #4 4pc. z-axis. Will cover all streams for nymphing and dries

And some rod for streamers..doesn't really matter, as its not like streamer fishing needs to be pretty

[TimD]

Are we forgetting about the tippet? That is the ulimate determinator as to wether backbone can be applied, is it not? Either the rod breaks or the tippet does. If I was fishing for stealhead, I wouldn't be using the 3wt but I also won't be using 4x tippet or a size 16 fly (and I wouldn't be fishing in Alberta).

 

And you guessed it Tim, I do have an under rated 3wt (Dancraft FT - fast) and compared to that, the 6wt is a moderate action (Five Rivers).

 

Hydropsyche,

 

Yes I agree about the tippet, the lightest I go is 4x and I use a lot of 3x. I don't think the fish are as leader shy as the magazines make them out to be, any shyness issues can usually be taken care of with presentation. I try to challenge myself by getting fish in faster and try to find better ways to bring them in. I have read that the more exhausted a fish is, the lower its survival rate. The side benefit to heavier tippet is having to tie less flies, although I now have to re-tie some flies because they get chewed up.

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

[hydropsyche]

I have read that the more exhausted a fish is, the lower its survival rate.

 

I believe that to be true. I get a bit pissed when I see someone playing a 16in fish for 10 minutes before releasing it. Its usually someone who hasn't caught a fish all day and wants to make the best of it.

 

I do agree that the bigger the rod, the quicker you can land a fish and that is my goal. I lot of times, to my dismay, I LDR a fish because I'm trying to bring it in too fast. I've learned to live with that risk.

[TimD]

I believe that to be true. I get a bit pissed when I see someone playing a 16in fish for 10 minutes before releasing it. Its usually someone who hasn't caught a fish all day and wants to make the best of it.

 

I do agree that the bigger the rod, the quicker you can land a fish and that is my goal. I lot of times, to my dismay, I LDR a fish because I'm trying to bring it in too fast. I've learned to live with that risk.

 

I hear you,

We are just putting them back anyway. I have heard of anglers 'lovingly' resuscitating fish for __ minutes after an 'epic' battle. My goal is to get them in fresh enough so they can swim away at whatever speed they want.

 

I was up at Swan Lake last year and it was amazing how fast a 20" fish can be landed when one puts their mind to it. It was all about checking runs by getting the fish to turn a bit early then really leaning into them to turn them around. I used the same technique to stop them from burying as well - keeping their heads up stops them from building up any momentum.

 

The only fish that I consistently lost were the ones that I reacted too slowly to check their first run and they got up too much momentum to turn them. They ended up taking me out to the backing and I ended up losing them in the weeds.

 

Regards,

 

Tim

[albannachxcuileag]

Across this side of the pond we tend to favour 7/8 weights for loch / lough / lake fishing from a drifting boat but I have tended towards a 6 weight for both my loch and river fishing although I should be thinking about getting a 4 weight for the river.

 

I have a 12ft Daiwa Tournament Osprey Whisker Kevlar 5/7 weight that I bought many years ago and used to use for loch fishing and also on the Tweed for trout, it converts to a double hander as it has a 6" extention for the butt and can really throw line despite being a soft actioned rod compared to what is now available.

 

My main rod is a 9ft Bloke XL50 fast actioned 6 weight which unfortunately broke playing the 3rd fish of the day the other week and this I use on both river and loch, this has been described by one angling journalist friend of mine as a bloody poker! Anybody worried about the handling capabilities of a 6 weight should know that this has landed a 14lb fighting fit rainbow without any effort!

 

There are a few more including a 10ft Shimano Biocraft XTR 8 weight, a 10ft Daiwa Lochmor 7 weight, a 10ft Shakespeare which I think is 8 weight again and of all things, an ABU Conolon 11ft 3" 7 weight which I have loaned out to a buddy who broke his loch rod recently.

 

Oh! and a 17ft telescopic dapping rod!

[BRH]

I believe that to be true. I get a bit pissed when I see someone playing a 16in fish for 10 minutes before releasing it.

 

Hydropsyche and TimD ... don't get caught up in that misconception. There is another thread on this forum where issue was discussed this at length. Believe what you want but don't attempt to proport it as fact. It would probably serve you well to do some research. More fish die because of improper release than the length of the fight. The fact that someone is taking the time to revive the fish adequately at release is far more gratifying to me than the fact that you stiff-heel your fish. Stiff-heel 'em if you want but don't assume someone else is doing it wrong by fighting the fish.

[hydropsyche]

Agreed but I wouldn't call it a misconception. A misconception is something that is proven wrong and I think the jury is still out, is it not?

 

Roderick Haig-Brown (Fisherman's Fall) references Dr, Black

 

"The high level of lactic acid in the blood are not necessarily the cause of death, though they coincide with death. It is known that a distrubance of this magnatue reduces the power of the blood to combine with oxygen and carbon dioxide and the capicity of the heart to pump blood. The real significant point is the buildup of the contrentration continues in fish over a period of several hours after violent exersice, whereas with mammals it ceases with the activity and recovery begins immediately. So a fish released prompty, in apparent excellent condition, almost certainly has not reached the full state of exhaustion brought on by it struggles."

 

Humans have dropped dead from exhaustion, so it doesn't make sense to me to purposely fight a fish to exhaustion when it can be avoided.

 

In other words, better safe then sorry.

 

ps. Sorry for the hijack.

[Guest bigbadbrent]

everyones got their own opinions, so why bother bringing it up?

[hydropsyche]

 

Dying to read the other thread. Anyone have a link?

[TimD]

Hydropsyche and TimD ... don't get caught up in that misconception. There is another thread on this forum where issue was discussed this at length. Believe what you want but don't attempt to proport it as fact. It would probably serve you well to do some research. More fish die because of improper release than the length of the fight. The fact that someone is taking the time to revive the fish adequately at release is far more gratifying to me than the fact that you stiff-heel your fish. Stiff-heel 'em if you want but don't assume someone else is doing it wrong by fighting the fish.

 

Pseudonym,

 

Here are a couple of abstracts, I would not dispute that handling of fish is important, and I am sure that you would agree that other factors are important as well. These abstracts point out that getting fish in fresh and keeping from exposure to air are important - feel free to cite your own studies that show them up. I handle fish properly, try to keep them in the water, and land them fast because I want to reduce angling mortality as much as I can.

 

Regards,

 

Tim

 

Ferguson and Tufts 1992 -Abstract: Rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) which were air exposed for 60 s after exhaustive exercise initially had a much larger extracellular acidosis than trout which were only exercised. In both groups, however, plasma pH returned to normal by 4 h. Blood lactate concentrations were also greater in the air-exposed fish and continued to increase throughout the experiment. During air exposure, there was retention of carbon dioxide in the blood, and oxygen tension (Po2) and hemoglobin:oxygen carriage (Hb:O2) both fell by over 80%. After 30 min of recovery, however, blood gases resembled those in fish which were only exercised. Finally, survival after 12 h was 10% in control fish and 88% in the exercised fish but fell to 62 and 28% in fish which were air exposed for 30 and 60 s, respectively, after exercise. These results indicate that the brief period of air exposure which occurs in many "catch and release" fisheries is a significant additional stress which may ultimately influence whether a released fish survives.

 

 

Meka and McCormick 2005 - Rapid capture fish were significantly smaller than extended capture fish, reflecting that fish size influenced landing and handling times. Fish size was related to cortisol and lactate in 2002, which corresponded to the year when larger fish were captured and there were longer landing times. Body condition (i.e., weight/length regression residuals index), was significantly related to lactate in 2000 and 2001. Water temperatures were higher in 2001 (mean temperature ± S.E., 13 ± 2 °C) than in 2002 (10 ± 2 °C), and fish captured in 2001 had significantly higher cortisol and lactate concentrations than fish captured in 2002. The pattern of increase in plasma cortisol and lactate was due to the amount of time fish were angled, and the upper limit of the response was due to water temperature. The results of this study indicate the importance of minimizing the duration of angling in order to reduce the sublethal physiological disturbances in wild fish subjected to catch-and-release angling, particularly during warmer water temperatures. It is also important to note that factors such as fish size may influence both the duration of angling and subsequent physiological response.

[reevesr1]

 

Dying to read the other thread. Anyone have a link?

Hydro:

http://flyfishcalgary.com/board/index.php?...=3644&st=20

 

Gets going on page 2. Pretty interesting stuff.

 

To continue the hijack, while I can understand the desire to get the fish in quickly in order to minimize mortality (and we have dueling studies to debate whether fight time matters or not), for me, I gotta say I like to fight fish. In fact, it is the primary reason I picked up a fly rod. It is fun to catch fish on a fly rod. If I wanted to get them in quickly, I know better tools to do that with. The rods are shorter and stiffer and you cast the lure, not the line.

 

I certainly don't try to fish them to exhaustion, but my goal is not to get them in as quickly as possible either. Please do not interpret this as slamming anyone else's technique, just saying what I like to do, right or wrong.

[albannachxcuileag]

Across this side of the pond we tend to favour 7/8 weights for loch / lough / lake fishing from a drifting boat but I have tended towards a 6 weight for both my loch and river fishing although I should be thinking about getting a 4 weight for the river.

 

I have a 12ft Daiwa Tournament Osprey Whisker Kevlar 5/7 weight that I bought many years ago and used to use for loch fishing and also on the Tweed for trout, it converts to a double hander as it has a 6" extention for the butt and can really throw line despite being a soft actioned rod compared to what is now available.

 

My main rod is a 9ft Bloke XL50 fast actioned 6 weight which unfortunately broke playing the 3rd fish of the day the other week and this I use on both river and loch, this has been described by one angling journalist friend of mine as a bloody poker! Anybody worried about the handling capabilities of a 6 weight should know that this has landed a 14lb fighting fit rainbow without any effort!

 

There are a few more including a 10ft Shimano Biocraft XTR 8 weight, a 10ft Daiwa Lochmor 7 weight, a 10ft Shakespeare which I think is 8 weight again and of all things, an ABU Conolon 11ft 3" 7 weight which I have loaned out to a buddy who broke his loch rod recently.

 

Oh! and a 17ft telescopic dapping rod!

 

 

Just to update this and get the thread back on track -----

 

I have just acquired a 4 piece 10ft 7 weight Bloke XL50 to play with on the loughs across here. Can't wait until it arrives on the doorstep!