headscan Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I was looking at the Rio Gold line and noticed in the description they say it has a long back taper that makes it good for single-handed spey casting. I imagine that other companies like Loop probably also make lines that are designed for this as well. Does anyone have experience with these types of lines? Do they sacrifice overhead casting ability? Any recommendations? I'd be looking for a line like this to put on a single-handed 5 weight Sage FLI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvie Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Hi Headscan; The Rio Gold line is nice, the Loop Opti Stream nicer, Snowbee Two Colour or Extreme Distance also nicer...Colin has the ED line...ask him....try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDone Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Yup, I've got the 5wt Snowbee line, single hand spey casts real nice, would probably work well on that Sage. Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 Yup, I've got the 5wt Snowbee line, single hand spey casts real nice, would probably work well on that Sage. Colin Is it the XS two colour floating fly line? It looks to me like the running line is blue and the head is white. How visible is the white line on the water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDone Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 The one I have is peach/salmon so quite visible. I would think the white line wouldn't be as visible to the fish looking up as say a florescent orange or yellow. Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 Ah, ok. I only saw the blue and white version on the Snowbee website. I wasn't as worried about the fish seeing the line so much as myself. Really too bad we don't have a Snowbee dealer in Calgary... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvie Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Ah, ok. I only saw the blue and white version on the Snowbee website. I wasn't as worried about the fish seeing the line so much as myself. Really too bad we don't have a Snowbee dealer in Calgary... YET???but SOON! I'm off to the Gold River for a few days...let you know how we do. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Looking at the taper info the rio gold should be a nice line. I would not think that the rear taper is going to have much effect on overhand casting but I haven't cast that line. Seems to me that it depends on the casts you wanna make. Just like with 2 hand spey casting there are lines for different uses.... everyone will have favorites. My favorite for the majority of this kinda casting is simply the DT trout taper from SA it has no head (double taper) so that means that it will perform much like a long belly spey line..... you don't have to strip in as much line before you cast I find that you can cast with a ton of line out and launch some real bombs.... Best is how well a DT line will mend regardless of how much line is out. But this line I find is best when I am not overly limited in the size of loop I can throw behind me...... Also casts great overhand. My second favorite is the Loop opti stillwater...... (stream and creek both look great but I couldn't find one) the opti stillwater has the color change and that does really highlight the sweet spot which is nice...... Thinnish running line shoots well but mends not so great. As its a shorter head I guess it could sorta be looked at as a short-mid length head spey line. I really like this line for fishing stillwaters where currents are not an issue...... I also know that I will like it on smaller streams as it presents well, loads nice, is very visible and will shoot a nice far cast when I want it to....... But I think the opti stream (creek is only made up to 4 wt right) might be a better choice for streams..... If you want a line that is somewhere in the middle head length then the rio gold is gonna be in that area......Sounds like some really good lines have been suggested..... however I wouldn't even include the opti stream~27feet and rio gold~47feet in the same catagory..... Head length on the rio gold is nearly 20 feet longer I think thats gonna make the 2 lines very very different. But to then compare the snowbee xs ED is again an unfair comparison the snowbee ED is gonna come in at an amazing ~60 foot head..... this line is a monster but must launch total bombs if you can cast it........ So I think the bigger question needs to be what sort of casting do you want to do? I thought about it and thats why I like my double taper its cheap and it seems very versatile to me...... But I really really would like to cast the snowbee ed for distance and the loop opti stream for smaller river tighter casting situations...... http://www.compleatangler.biz/Loop/Lines/OptiLines.htm http://www.fly-fishing-tackle.co.uk/acatal...BEE_XS_EDF.html http://www.rioproducts.com/product.php?fmCategory=3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speyghillie Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Not my favorite line by any means, but if you look on a well known auction site with .co.uk, you will see at times hundreds of Airflow 40 plus lines going for nothing, i dont know where they are all coming from, but you can understand why none of the store want them, you could'nt buy them trade for that price. Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 Not my favorite line by any means, but if you look on a well known auction site with .co.uk, you will see at times hundreds of Airflow 40 plus lines going for nothing, i dont know where they are all coming from, but you can understand why none of the store want them, you could'nt buy them trade for that price. Gordon. I've heard so many negative things about Airflo lines that I don't think I'll be touching one any time soon... So I think the bigger question needs to be what sort of casting do you want to do? I thought about it and thats why I like my double taper its cheap and it seems very versatile to me...... But I really really would like to cast the snowbee ed for distance and the loop opti stream for smaller river tighter casting situations...... I'd probably use it for single/double speys and switch casts as well as overhead casting. The idea is that I'd probably use it for overhead casting unless conditions called for a spey cast. I think I'm going to end up going with a Loop Multi since it seems to offer the most versatility for what I want to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Sounds like a good choice for the majority of casting...... You may someday want to look at a line with a longer head for certain spey casting situations but that line looks like a really good choice. Very versatile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistler Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 folks keep in mind that the head length has EVERYTHING to do with the length of the rod with your fishing position taken into account. If you are wading deep the vertical distance from your tip to anchor is less than if you are mostly fishing from the bank. Of course you can compensate with your cast(ie high lift before firing) but if you want the best possible match it is important to give this some thought. For most fishing with 9' rods the Loop opt stream is ideal. For longer rods and bank anglking the stillwater versiuon works great. As mentioned, the multi is a nice compromise. the following links are official loop websites(world/usa/Canada) rather than that of a specific us retailer(who I believe is no longer a current Loop dealer). www.looptackle.se www.looptackleusa.com www.looptacklecan.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 folks keep in mind that the head length has EVERYTHING to do with the length of the rod with your fishing position taken into account. If you are wading deep the vertical distance from your tip to anchor is less than if you are mostly fishing from the bank. Of course you can compensate with your cast(ie high lift before firing) but if you want the best possible match it is important to give this some thought. For most fishing with 9' rods the Loop opt stream is ideal. For longer rods and bank anglking the stillwater versiuon works great. As mentioned, the multi is a nice compromise. the following links are official loop websites(world/usa/Canada) rather than that of a specific us retailer(who I believe is no longer a current Loop dealer). www.looptackle.se www.looptackleusa.com www.looptacklecan.com So is my understanding correct that most (if not all) Loop single-handed rods were designed and built with single-handed spey casting in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Whistler I am a little confused by your last post........... And I don't mean to be arguementative as I am just a rank beginner to the whole spey thing...... I just thought that the intended use played as big a part as the length of the rod when choosing fly line/head length but that there was limitations.......... So can anyone go over the 3x skagit line 5x traditional line guidelines for me again...... maybe I have something mixed up...... But I thought a general rule was for a skagit line to be approx 3x the rod length so for a 9 foot rod 27 feet...... And I thought that for more traditional long belly style lines it was approx 5 x the rod length.... so approx 45 feet...... I had kinda looked at fly lines in a similar light as spey lines and found that this rule was to a certain extent transferable to spey casting with single hand rods and lines..... In practice I have found that this seems to work atleast for me and that you can easily push this guideline by several more feet due to the fact that with single hand spey casting its very easy to incorporate a haul or 2 (or 3) into your casts....... I also found that despite the fact that I could shoot more line with a short head I could still cast farther easier, and smoother with a long head...... So I have kinda looked more at the fishing range (distance) when deciding which line to use. I also consider the presentation as some times you might want to strip a ton of line back in to your short head and other times you don't ....... For most situations I find the shorter head very versatile and the most useful..... But in some situations when I am consistently fishing at a longer distance especially with a static presentation the longer head seems to be the way to go...... But I have always been a bit weird and maybe I am backasswards in this....... like I said I am certainly not a pro or anything like it so maybe you can explain this to me..... PS I just googled loop opti tapers and the compleat angler site I posted was the first one I found...... I figured there taper info was fairly accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistler Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 explanation coming......once I get back from lunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 what whistler is trying too say i think ........if u have a 9 foot rod and fish from shore you have a 12 foot distance (im guess) from teh ground too teh tip of the rod...once you wade out and stand in 1 foot of water you loose 1 foot of distance from the rod tip too the ground and your at 11ft...2 feet of water 2 feet of distance 10 ft...it changes the way you halfto cast too get teh same cast u had on shore.......i noticed when i was fishing my spey on shore then waded out mid thy the difference how my line/rod would cast ...i was getting way to much line stick and the d loop wasnt as tall... i would halfto have a higher casting position(above my head) too get the same type of d-loop i was on shore...please correct me if im wrong and way out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 No rush Whistler I'm at work and i'm not going anywhere for a while. I appreciate your taking the time to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistler Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Lone, so first off Maxwell is fairly correct, the greater the distance from the rod tip to the anchor point the more line that can be carried in the D loop. Of course there are a wide variety of ways that the caster can compensate as stroke length and a raised firing position vs a lower side arm position all come into play. Another important factor is the shape of the D : the enegetic driving > of the traditional style vs the lazy sustained anchor ) of the skagit. Please keep in mind that fishing/casting is really an open skill sport. I mean that conditions are always changing and we need to adapt each cast to best present the fly in any given fishing situation. T hese factors could include but are not limited to: wind current speed fly size leader length casters height backcast space desired fly presentation(duh) overhanging brush stealth factor cast length I think it would be great if I had some cute chick(my girlfriend) follow me around with 4 different set ups as I fished and she could hand them to me already rigged as I needed them for the perfect presentation. The crazy reality is most of us want to fish the same line all day and as such must find the best possible compromise for all situations encountered during the day. The rule of 3-1 and 5-1 are pretty rough and dirty yet there is some good wisdom there. In this case it is that head lengths between 3-5 times the rod length will speycast really good .............. provided there is enough weight carried in the D to properly load(bend) the rod. By the way the easiest way to tell is to try it overhead, if it feels light it will be light. If it feels heavy it will be heavy. Now as for style, a traditional approach will allow you to cast a longer and overall slightly lighter line. A true skagit approach will work best with a heavier head. The skagit will feel 'clunky' when cast overhead, hence the development of this style to cast heavy(clunky) tips and flies. There is NO NEED for skagit when casting dry lines and dry flies! -of course you can do it but it isn't the best approach, much like trying to use long belly lines for Chinook Salmon fishing. The underhand approach is a good solution for most fisheries. You get the grace and timing of the traditional technique while getting to utilize the sensible head lengths, stealthy presentation and easy casting of the scandi style lines. As for myself, I don't like to be limited so I like to combine the best attributes of scandi and skagit lines allowing me to adapt my cast as best to present the fly to the fish in any angling situation without restricting me to one perceived speycasting style. The Loop lines mentioned are all fairly short bellied lines and are designed to overhead cast and single hand spey in the underhand style with the greatest of ease. Okay I know I am the Loop guy but the truth of the matter is these lines are somewhat unique in the marketplace and really are magic when properly matched to the occassion. Never before have a series of lines offerred such a degree of control, you can pick them up and place them. Here in town the angling club and shop do a weekly casting night with distance and mini golf(targets). People find there accuracy goes up so much on the mini golf course that these lines sell themselves. As for single hand spey casting, any line that is between 3 and 5 times the rod length and is heavy enough will work just fine., though I would suggest 3 as being a much better option than 5.What the opti lines have going for them is that they are designed to cast with the whole head outside of the rodd tip(shooting head) The lines feature sensible, easy casting head lengths and do not require a lot of effort to speycast. The head lengths are matched to the fishing situation= creek, stream and still water. Factor in your variables (see above posted list) and you can come up with whatever head length works best for your given fishing situation and rod length/action. The first thing to remember is that you will never single hand spey as far as you can single hand overhead, it is alkl about delivring the fly to fish at the normal, moderate lengths 60' or much less, though longer casts are indeed possible. In fact single hand spey is most useful at much shorter distances which is where distance single hand lines suffer. Once you choke up on the head too much there is not enough weight to properly turn over the longer front taper. I really hope this helps Brian Niska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Great post Brian - thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I am gonna print that out I hope you don't mind..... Yeah that makes sense completely what you just said..... And I would agree with you..... just wasn't sure if I was wrong to be spey casting a longer head or a double taper sometimes. But you are right about LOOP lines the loop opti line that I have used is a kick ass line..... haven't tried the creek or stream but I would imagine they are both really good lines as well. And they are really accurate. Thanks for the explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 Thanks Brian, that's fantastic information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhuger Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Thanks Brian, outstanding post. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvie Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Thats a good post Brian...as I mentioned earlier,even the British appreciate the fun and versatility of the Loop Opti Stream series as do I. For years that is the line I used for my casting lessons...I found that the newbie caster could identify the load mentally very quickly and the forward stroke was almost automatic. Likely the first to produce this "mini" single hand short ehad line. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Well, I have a Loop Multi and OptiStream on their way to me (thanks Brian!) so hopefully I'll have a chance to test them on Saturday provided I can get them spooled. I'll post my impressions after, though keep in mind I'm by no means an expert spey caster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 So I've spooled a Loop OptiStream and Multi line ready to go for tomorrow. Looking at these lines you can see they're more like a smaller version of a spey line than a regular fly line. The head on the lines are fairly pronounced compared to the rest of it. Next to them my Sharkskin line looks like it doesn't have a taper at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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