Polyleader->tippet

[headscan]

Ok, so I have some Snowbee 16' polyleaders (floating, intermediate, fast). I've been using a perfection loop on the end of the polyleader to connect a couple feet of tippet and everything seems to be turning over properly for me. The thing is I don't have a clue if this is the best way to turn my flies over. Should I be using longer tippet (or a leader) or using a surgeon's knot to connect the polyleader to the tippet? Since I was using an intermediate sinking polyleader I figured fluoro would be the way to go so that everything had some sink to it.

[ogilvie]

Ok, so I have some Snowbee 16' polyleaders (floating, intermediate, fast). I've been using a perfection loop on the end of the polyleader to connect a couple feet of tippet and everything seems to be turning over properly for me. The thing is I don't have a clue if this is the best way to turn my flies over. Should I be using longer tippet (or a leader) or using a surgeon's knot to connect the polyleader to the tippet? Since I was using an intermediate sinking polyleader I figured fluoro would be the way to go so that everything had some sink to it.

Depending on the rod length you are useing will normally determine the length of the tippet and of course the sink rate of your Poly tip. The perfection loop is as good as it gets for such a thing. Because the poly tips are tapered gives you the opportunity to taper your leaders if the need arises. An example of useing a 14' fast sink poly tip ;the tippet ,for me,is usually no more than 4' long. As with all flourocarbon connections to other materials make sure of the knot strength and connectability. Personally, I don't use Flouro'.... period! Too many issues with knots, line fractures,abrasion and so on...micro diameter co-polymers work best for me. I have just sent 2 boxes of Snowbee's Magic Line to a very busy outfitter in BC's Cariboo region...his guides were useing Magic Line last summer for dry fishing(straight 10' lengths) they lost less fish,turned over the flies as well and had as many hook-ups. Not bad when the Bucks are on the line!

[headscan]

I haven't had any problems with fluoro yet. If I'm connecting fluoro tippet to a mono leader I just use a four wrap surgeon's knot. Using two or three wraps I had the fluoro cut through the mono once in a while but not once since I went to four wraps. Sounds like you might need to bring some of that Magic Line out for the show. If it floats like mono I'd be interested in trying some for dries.

 

So if Beulah suggests a leader 1.5 times the rod length and I have a 16' polyleader, then for the 11'6" rod 2 feet of tippet sounds like it should be just about right. Am I getting that correctly or am I off?

[toolman]

I have worked with Fluro for the past several years, for my subsurface fishing. Some of the brands I have used were not very good and I had problems. Later, I realized that my knots were not helping any and worked on taking that part out of the equation, but I still had not found a pure Fluro material that I was 100% happy with. In the past year, I started using Frog Hair Flurocarbon. I have used it in a wide variety of conditions and for different species as well. Since then, I can't say I have had any problems that could be directly associated with the performance of my Fluro leader/tippet material or knot connections.

As Islandguy mentioned, the Co-polymers available today, have a sound reputation as bieng dependable and having excellent performance properties, including, good shock resistance and elongation, high tensile strength, small diameter, low visibility, good turnover etc. I like to use these Co-polymers (Gamma), for surface use and sometimes subsurface as well, to balance the sink rate of the fly, to the sink rate of the tip bieng used. The Fluro can get my flys deeper, faster, but sometimes too fast, especailly with weighted or large flys, creating too much droop if the tippet is long. It is equally important that the fly sinks slightly faster than your Polysink tips, which are density compensated so that the tip will sink first. If the mono tippet used on a sink tip is too thick or too long, then your sink tip may have to drag the fly/mono down too depth, because of the high floatation factor of Monofilament Nylon leaders/tippets.

Most Polyleaders that I have used, have a moderate elongation factor, which helps absorb sharp spikes in the line load and protect the Fluro tippets. Fluro is a harder, smaller diameter material than nylon or most co-polymers of equal B/S, and Fluro has excellent abrasion resistance against rocks and ice. It is fairly stiff in the larger diameters and has great turn over if the leader/tippet/lengths are balanced correctly for the fly size and conditions.

The knots that I have used and find to be the best for my Fluro leaders and tippets include... Surgeons knots for building hand tied leaders, using 3 wraps for 12lb. and up, or 4 wraps for 10lb and smaller.... the Homer Rhodes non-slip loop knot, for motion on the fly... a Palomar knot when I need to get tough or with large fly patterns, connecting to barrel swivels etc...and a Hook Bend Knot, which is a Palomar knot that I have modified, for tying a dropper fly off the hook bend on a tandem/triple fly rig..... Perfection loops for L/L connections.

So, I would conclude that Flurocarbon requires more attention to detail and is less forgiving than Co-polymers or 100% Nylon, but the benefits I have discovered in using the Frog Hair Fluro for fishing sub-surface, has often made a noticeable difference in my catch rate.

[ogilvie]

I haven't had any problems with fluoro yet. If I'm connecting fluoro tippet to a mono leader I just use a four wrap surgeon's knot. Using two or three wraps I had the fluoro cut through the mono once in a while but not once since I went to four wraps. Sounds like you might need to bring some of that Magic Line out for the show. If it floats like mono I'd be interested in trying some for dries.

 

So if Beulah suggests a leader 1.5 times the rod length and I have a 16' polyleader, then for the 11'6" rod 2 feet of tippet sounds like it should be just about right. Am I getting that correctly or am I off?

You are accurate...although I like longer leaders and these rods give you a very wide window to discover what works for you...start short and work your way to whats comfortable.

C

PS...4 wraps sounds like a good thing... the trouble here on the coast is not only the barnacles off the beach but too many granite rocks under the surface.and flourocarbon doesn't like abrasion points. The Magic Line doesn't affect the water film

that quickly and seems to be very manageable especially with the small diameter.

[ogilvie]

I have worked with Fluro for the past several years, for my subsurface fishing. Some of the brands I have used were not very good and I had problems. Later, I realized that my knots were not helping any and worked on taking that part out of the equation, but I still had not found a pure Fluro material that I was 100% happy with. In the past year, I started using Frog Hair Flurocarbon. I have used it in a wide variety of conditions and for different species as well. Since then, I can't say I have had any problems that could be directly associated with the performance of my Fluro leader/tippet material or knot connections.

As Islandguy mentioned, the Co-polymers available today, have a sound reputation as bieng dependable and having excellent performance properties, including, good shock resistance and elongation, high tensile strength, small diameter, low visibility, good turnover etc. I like to use these Co-polymers (Gamma), for surface use and sometimes subsurface as well, to balance the sink rate of the fly, to the sink rate of the tip bieng used. The Fluro can get my flys deeper, faster, but sometimes too fast, especailly with weighted or large flys, creating too much droop if the tippet is long. It is equally important that the fly sinks slightly faster than your Polysink tips, which are density compensated so that the tip will sink first. If the mono tippet used on a sink tip is too thick or too long, then your sink tip may have to drag the fly/mono down too depth, because of the high floatation factor of Monofilament Nylon leaders/tippets.

Most Polyleaders that I have used, have a moderate elongation factor, which helps absorb sharp spikes in the line load and protect the Fluro tippets. Fluro is a harder, smaller diameter material than nylon or most co-polymers of equal B/S, and Fluro has excellent abrasion resistance against rocks and ice. It is fairly stiff in the larger diameters and has great turn over if the leader/tippet/lengths are balanced correctly for the fly size and conditions.

The knots that I have used and find to be the best for my Fluro leaders and tippets include... Surgeons knots for building hand tied leaders, using 3 wraps for 12lb. and up, or 4 wraps for 10lb and smaller.... the Homer Rhodes non-slip loop knot, for motion on the fly... a Palomar knot when I need to get tough or with large fly patterns, connecting to barrel swivels etc...and a Hook Bend Knot, which is a Palomar knot that I have modified, for tying a dropper fly off the hook bend on a tandem/triple fly rig..... Perfection loops for L/L connections.

So, I would conclude that Flurocarbon requires more attention to detail and is less forgiving than Co-polymers or 100% Nylon, but the benefits I have discovered in using the Frog Hair Fluro for fishing sub-surface, has often made a noticeable difference in my catch rate.

As Toolman says the Frog Hair FC is very good...and the knots work very well....Seagar FC is another fine product and I believe that once you have it pegged you won't go back....

C

[toolman]

I know what you mean about sharp rocks being a problem, Islandguy. Each year during the spring ice out on the Bow river, many sections of the river get scoured heavily by the thick ice flowing downstream. It breaks and lifts the shale on the stream bottom, which creates a lot of sharp edges that will snag and slice any tippet that touches it. Tough to fish in this water when the fish are hugging the rocks, which they often still are, in late March. The sharp edges generally start to erode and silt in, during the high water run off period that follows in June. So, it's somewhat of a seasonal problem.

 

ps. I have heard good things about Seagar FC and the Snowbee Magic line, but have not had an opportunity to try them yet.

[headscan]

As Toolman says the Frog Hair FC is very good...and the knots work very well....Seagar FC is another fine product and I believe that once you have it pegged you won't go back....

C

 

Yeah, so far the Frog Hair FC is the best that I've used. Tried the SA and Rio but had some problems with it. The line would really stick when I was tightening knots and result in abrasions (yes, I was lubricating the line first). Haven't seen the Seaguar stuff before so I can't comment on it. In fact this is the first I've heard of it.

[headscan]

You are accurate...although I like longer leaders and these rods give you a very wide window to discover what works for you...start short and work your way to whats comfortable.

 

I usually fish heavy and short leaders for a single-handed rod. I think that's exactly what I'll do - start short and work my way up. How does cutting back polyleader affect the line characteristics? Is the taper gradual enough that cutting back a few feet won't make much difference?

[bhurt]

Headscan,

 

I found that for my 11 1/2 5/6wt a 13 foot floating poly leader was perfect for nymphing with, then I used some PLine (cheap crap, haven't had the oppurtuinty to buy new tippet and leader metrail for the Spey yet) to my first fly.

 

I also cut my leader from the thinest to the thickest (reasoning behind this was so I still could turn over heavy flies if I wan't to do something like SJW, StoneFly, BD nymph)

 

So far I hit into last time I was out about a dozen trout of nice size. Was able to control and cast my line from 20 feet to about 50 feet at the max (will cast farther just need more and more PRACTICE)

 

I would start out with a 16 foot poly leader and work down 1 foot at a time till you have it dialed in...

 

BTW, I wasted a 10 foot poly leader in learning this.