Protection For Native Westslope Cutthroat

[Harps]

Well folks,

 

Here is where you get your say in protecting the fish that Western Fly Fishing is all about!! This is the fish that separates the Wild West fly fishing rivers from the Tame streams of the cultured East. Cutthroat are the fish of the frontier, the fish of white water, the fish of deep mountain canyons. They are as important to Alberta as grizzly bears, wild roses, and herds of elk. It is socially and culturally important and ingrained in our identity as Albertans, fly-fishers, and lovers of all things wild. Speak up and let the government know that we, as anglers and outdoors-people, care about the existence of this species.

 

There are very few native, real, and pure populations of the fish left. Years of stocking, angling, and human encroachment have put them on the brink. Lets protect what's left of their habitat (upper Oldman and Bow drainages).

 

Oh and hybrid populations (the ones fished for) won't be listed (and protected) as endangered, just the true, pure, unpolluted (genetically) populations.

 

http://www.sararegistry.gc.ca/public/showD...t_e.cfm?id=1522

 

You have until the end of March.

 

Those of you with links to Fly fishing businesses, may want to forward this along and look for their support.

 

Cheers

[Taco]

Well, the powers that be can edit me and if your sensibilities are easily offended or you are under the age of 18 STOP READING NOW... Because

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ABOUT GNIKCUF TIME!!!!!!!

 

 

Thanks Paul! :)

[Harps]

Not a done deal yet.

We have to show that they are more important (socially/culturally) than the economic impact listing them would cause... Could be a fight against forestry and oil and gas exploration. On the otherhand, many of those industry groups will support this and are already considering them protected.

 

Of course I don't think the Alberta gov't will support you killing all the invasive rainbows and brookies...

 

 

BTW Brookies taste better than cutts

[Guest bigbadbrent]

Not a lot of people realise this, but they really should be washing and drying to complete dryness all their stuff between rivers (you know lots of guys who fish the bow one day, then somewhere else the next...)...needs more knowledge for protection to happen. thanks Harps

[grannyknot]

Thanks Harps.

For good informative reading, try downloading the "Status of the Westslope Cutthroat Trout in Alberta" report, from SRD.

[Taco]

Done and away!

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS; you know whats funny about that brookie thing?...... Provincial and State governments across the west recognize that brookies are highly invasive and all across the western United States, the retention limit limit on brook trout is 10-20-30 with no size limit but in good old Alberta you hafta take a ID test before you can catch enough to make a meal for a family of 4.

[grannyknot]

I'll never understand the two brookie limit on Jumpingpound creek. I say let the meat eaters bonk 'em all, might leave some space and food for the cutties.

[Harps]

If the fly-fishers from Calgary could tell the difference between young brookies and bull trout, maybe they'd change the limit...

 

[grannyknot]

Point noted.

[Taco]

Ya know, I've never caught a bull trout above the falls on Cataract.

 

Paul it's more of an enforcement issue than a poor IDing skill set. What's the fine for hangin' a whitetail tag on a mule deer? Or do they shut down the Whitetail season?

[Salvelinus]

The designation of "threatened" or "endangered" could result in a moratorium for all fishing of pure strain cutties (even catch and release). Certain high profile streams such as the Livingstone River and Dutch Creek have pure remnant populations. Just wondering if people knew this....

[maxwell]

If the fly-fishers from Calgary could tell the difference between young brookies and bull trout, maybe they'd change the limit...

 

 

lmao took the words right outta my mouth...

[Harps]

The designation of "threatened" or "endangered" could result in a moratorium for all fishing of pure strain cutties (even catch and release). Certain high profile streams such as the Livingstone River and Dutch Creek have pure remnant populations. Just wondering if people knew this....

 

Sal,

 

Pure strain fishing may be at risk, but Aurora trout are also endangered and angled for.

 

Some small streams may be closed (only a few left with pure cutts, and most of these streams are tiny, not fished waters), but the livingstone and upper oldman are too big of fisheries and their populations aren't threatened by angling. Dutch creek has pure cutts... but I'm not sure of the barriers, what's stopping the rainbows (UofL research has shown a possible temperature barrier, very cool stuff)?

This is something that needs to come out of the public consultations... We want the fish protected, but we want to Angle them where it won't harm the population... it's all about a scientific based allowable harm assessment. The tiny tribs may be closed, fishing may be C&R, I'd like to see one hook per shaft, 2 hook max, and Habitat is protected... the problem is crossings and roads (and Rainbows). Everybody wins and pure cutts stand a chance where they don't have one now.

 

And of course some anglers start wacking all the non-natives.....

 

Taco,

I think the regs have to be general (area wide) because people don't read them and don't care about one trout from the next, as long as there is a trout. I agree, should be Major fines for poaching (of various types) and much more enforcement... there should also be an Eastslope stamp that requires an ID/fisheries knowledge test Before people fish west of Hwy 22.

 

I think everybody should read over the stuff and make their own decisions... but if push comes to shove, I can give up cutt fishing for some time if they are at serious risk. There are lots of rainbows, hybrids, and places where cutts are stocked (Ram system). At the least folks should be looking over this and having some good discussions.

 

Cheers

[Salvelinus]

Sal,

 

Pure strain fishing may be at risk, but Aurora trout are also endangered and angled for.

 

Some small streams may be closed (only a few left with pure cutts, and most of these streams are tiny, not fished waters), but the livingstone and upper oldman are too big of fisheries and their populations aren't threatened by angling. Dutch creek has pure cutts... but I'm not sure of the barriers, what's stopping the rainbows (UofL research has shown a possible temperature barrier, very cool stuff)?

This is something that needs to come out of the public consultations... We want the fish protected, but we want to Angle them where it won't harm the population... it's all about a scientific based allowable harm assessment. The tiny tribs may be closed, fishing may be C&R, I'd like to see one hook per shaft, 2 hook max, and Habitat is protected... the problem is crossings and roads (and Rainbows). Everybody wins and pure cutts stand a chance where they don't have one now.

 

And of course some anglers start wacking all the non-natives.....

 

Taco,

I think the regs have to be general (area wide) because people don't read them and don't care about one trout from the next, as long as there is a trout. I agree, should be Major fines for poaching (of various types) and much more enforcement... there should also be an Eastslope stamp that requires an ID/fisheries knowledge test Before people fish west of Hwy 22.

 

I think everybody should read over the stuff and make their own decisions... but if push comes to shove, I can give up cutt fishing for some time if they are at serious risk. There are lots of rainbows, hybrids, and places where cutts are stocked (Ram system). At the least folks should be looking over this and having some good discussions.

 

Cheers

 

Correct, by definition of the federal regulations any threatened or endangered species or population under the SARA SHOULD have hunting or fishing stopped, but the provincial govt makes the decision on what actually happens with respect to regulations (for example, white sturgeon in BC are threatened under SARA, but angling is allowed in the Fraser, and not elsewhere). This is a good thing as it is absurd to say that angling (under current regulations) is doing much to threaten the vast majority if not all pure alberta cutthroats....

 

The temperature barrier hypothesis looks like the most promising theory on hybridization isolating mechanisms in the absence of physical migration barriers. The main concern then would be things that alter stream temperature gradients such as road construction, logging, water withdrawl and the like.

 

I agree on the east slopes stamp and increased enforecement. Would go a long ways to reduce illegal activity and crowding. As far as giving up fishing for ALL native cutt populations, I would only accept the sacrifice if all potential (and MUCH greater) threats were banned as well, ie. road construction, OHVs, oil exploration and logging.... We all know how likely that is

 

BTW, this is Will

[Harps]

Hey will, ya bistard.

Haven't talked to you in a while (I thought it might be you... not to many that know much about where the remnant pops are).

 

The main concern then would be things that alter stream temperature gradients such as road construction, logging, water withdrawl and the like.

and possible climate change (associated with people or not, things are getting drier...)

 

We're on the same page with all of this... you know the angle I have to take off the board, but it's nice when people look at this and come up with their own decisions.

 

I'll see you next Wednesday.

Cheers

[cowtownscribe]

Thanks for the post Paul.

 

Mine is filled and sent out. It's funny that I hadn't received an Email about this. I had previously subscribed to the SARA mail list, and hadn't seen boo - until you sent this out.

 

I also noticed that Bulls aren't scheduled to be reviewed until the Fall of 2009! It amazes me that they weren't looked at first - considering their status throughout North America. I asked a few members of COSEWIC previously, but never received a good answer of why Cutties came first. Not that I'm complaining about the importance pure-strain Westslope Cutthroats in Alberta. It's just that Bullies would certainly have been an easy one for COSEWIC to review.

 

And of course that also might have accelerated our own population assessments and re-write of the (out-dated) Management Plan.

 

But then I get ahead of myself

 

Regards,

 

Frank.

[Tako]

Pardon my ignorance, I am unclear of drainage boundaries. Where do the Blackstone and Cardinal rivers fit into this?

[Taco]

Blackstone, Cardinal and Ram system don't have native cutts, they were planted there and some of the stock that was used apparently contains yellowstone genetics . Westslopes are only native to the Bow, Oldman and maybe the Milk river systems.

[Tako]

Blackstone, Cardinal and Ram system don't have native cutts, they were planted there and some of the stock that was used apparently contains yellowstone genetics . Westslopes are only native to the Bow, Oldman and maybe the Milk river systems.

 

Loud and clear. I knew that the Cardinal had been stocked, but I thought it had a native pop as well. Good info. I have passed the word along...

[Harps]

Thanks for the post Paul.

 

Mine is filled and sent out. It's funny that I hadn't received an Email about this. I had previously subscribed to the SARA mail list, and hadn't seen boo - until you sent this out.

 

I also noticed that Bulls aren't scheduled to be reviewed until the Fall of 2009! It amazes me that they weren't looked at first - considering their status throughout North America. I asked a few members of COSEWIC previously, but never received a good answer of why Cutties came first. Not that I'm complaining about the importance pure-strain Westslope Cutthroats in Alberta. It's just that Bullies would certainly have been an easy one for COSEWIC to review.

 

And of course that also might have accelerated our own population assessments and re-write of the (out-dated) Management Plan.

 

But then I get ahead of myself

 

Regards,

 

Frank.

 

Hi Frank,

 

Good to hear from you. Loved the bit on Late Season Grayling in the last Mag. My last fishing trip in Alberta before the snow flew, was for grayling up in the Slave Lake neck of the wood. My fiancee got her first garyling... and her first fish on a fly.

 

Hey, did anything come outa that issue up on the Smokey?? I lost track of what was going on up there.

 

Cheers,

Paul