Sad Day For Alberta Steelheaders

[CrisD]

The Skeena Quality Management BS :$*%&: report is out:

 

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/skeena/qws/docs/R...mmendations.pdf

 

Proposed changes for 2011 are allowing resident only on weekends and even fri->sun in some case, increasing rivers to Class 1 ( $40/day ) and more lovely stuff. Better get out this year

 

:derby racer:

 

[CrisD]

My little email sent to env.minister@gov.bc.ca

 

 

[Ricinus]

Ummm, My read on the preamble is that resident weekends include nonresident Canadians as residents because of the overlap with Salmon fishing.

 

Regards Mike

[PGK]

...Based on this, all references to resident only times and zones within this document will herein include BC resident anglers and non resident Canadian anglers

 

What, exactly, is your problem?

 

**Disclaimer - haven't finished reading the document yet

[PGK]

Congratulations Alberta, you just got handed BC steelhead on a silver platter. You're officially considered BC residents. What a pile of junk.

[Ricinus]

I've just skimmed the document and I don't see anything that really offends me. As a Non-resident Canadian, I think we came out winners considering the alternatives that were being considered. Now excuse me while I make my Fall Reservations

 

Regards Mike

[nebc]

HA....next thing ya know it will be like Limited Entry hinting draws for everyone! Bet they would have done that if they had not got a lot of flack...

[headscan]

I've just skimmed the document and I don't see anything that really offends me. As a Non-resident Canadian, I think we came out winners considering the alternatives that were being considered. Now excuse me while I make my Fall Reservations

 

Regards Mike

Yeah, it seems like the MOE probably realized that they couldn't legally implement the proposed restrictions on non-resident Canadians because of the federal tax dollars that go into the resource. If that's the case then hopefully this puts the AMP and any similar myopic plans to rest, especially when there are so many other things like salmon farming and commercial overfishing that'll ruin the angling "experience" there much more significantly than a few out of province fishermen.

 

http://www.salmonaresacred.org/

[Ricinus]

Congratulations Alberta, you just got handed BC steelhead on a silver platter. You're officially considered BC residents. What a pile of junk.

 

I noticed on another forum that you are working in Inuvik which i'm guessing makes you a nonresident Canadian too. Looks to me like the silver platter got extended to you also.

 

Regards Mike

[pkk]

I think the final outcome is good for albertans.

- albertans are recognized as canadians and not grouped in with the rest of the world

- no limited time frame on each river

- no limited draw

- we even benefit from the local only days, sat/sun on most rivers. ( as we are grouped in as local on those days)

 

PK

[SteveM]

Congratulations Alberta, you just got handed BC steelhead on a silver platter. You're officially considered BC residents. What a pile of junk.

 

Kinda sorta like the way any Canadian (even you) is considered an Albertan when it comes to buying an Alberta fishing license???

 

Don't worry, though; you should actually see the number of Albertans fishing in B.C. decrease this year. We're all too danged busy competing in these gigantic Bassmaster type fishing tournaments on the Bow...

 

[Neil Waugh]

Here's an interesting quote from Stelmach's great TILMA treaty with BC.

 

Standards & Regulations

 

TILMA requires the Governments of Alberta and British Columbia to:

 

* Mutually recognize or reconcile existing standards and regulations that restrict or impair trade, investment or labour mobility.

* Not establish new standards or regulations that could restrict or impair trade, investment or labour mobility.

* Reduce differences in standards or regulations that achieve legitimate objectives.

* Notify each other of standards and regulations that may affect interprovincial trade, investment and labour mobility.

 

In addition to tackling differences, TILMA specifically calls on the provincial governments to work together to enhance sustainable development, consumer protection, environmental protection, health and safety standards and labour standards.

 

Surely these are new standards that "restrict or impair trade". So is the Alberta government going to do anything about it?

Don't hold your breath.

[PGK]

Kinda sorta like the way any Canadian (even you) is considered an Albertan when it comes to buying an Alberta fishing license???

 

Don't worry, though; you should actually see the number of Albertans fishing in B.C. decrease this year. We're all too danged busy competing in these gigantic Bassmaster type fishing tournaments on the Bow...

 

Bob, I believe my stance on the AB licensing system is well documented. If you charged me three times as much, I still wouldn't hesitate to fish in AB. I guess that's the difference between those who fish and those who fish recreationally. If you fish, the dollar amount isn't going to stop you.

[jonn]

I just read through it and I'm not sure if I'm blind, but I really don't see how an Albertan can fish during local only days.

 

And PKG how is this giving Alberta, B.C.'s Steelhead on a silver platter? There's now more restricted for Albertans! Less days on the water, extended stamps and higher river classes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mod Edit BBT

[headscan]

I just read through it and I'm not sure if I'm blind, but I really don't see how an Albertan can fish during local only days.

 

And PKG you truly are an %*@#ing idiot how is this giving Alberta, B.C.'s Steelhead on a silver platter? There's now more restricted for Albertans! Less days on the water, extended stamps and higher river classes.

Before you get too angry, maybe you should read the MOE's response, especially this part on page 11:

Recognizing the overlap between salmon and steelhead fisheries, and acknowledging DFOs mandate, the ministry endorses the concept of resident‐only times and zones, and supports Canada’s proposal that such regulations allow access for both BC residents and non‐resident Canadians and restrict non‐resident alien anglers.

Based on this, all references to resident‐only times and zones within this document will herein include BC resident anglers and non‐resident Canadian anglers. The rationale supporting the Working Group’s recommendations for resident‐only times and zones are presented in the following sections.

 

Surely these are new standards that "restrict or impair trade". So is the Alberta government going to do anything about it?

Don't hold your breath.

Do anything about what? Maybe you need to actually read the doc too. See the section I quoted above.

[Weedy1]

Here's an interesting quote from Stelmach's great TILMA treaty with BC.

 

Standards & Regulations

 

TILMA requires the Governments of Alberta and British Columbia to:

 

* Mutually recognize or reconcile existing standards and regulations that restrict or impair trade, investment or labour mobility.

* Not establish new standards or regulations that could restrict or impair trade, investment or labour mobility.

* Reduce differences in standards or regulations that achieve legitimate objectives.

* Notify each other of standards and regulations that may affect interprovincial trade, investment and labour mobility.

 

In addition to tackling differences, TILMA specifically calls on the provincial governments to work together to enhance sustainable development, consumer protection, environmental protection, health and safety standards and labour standards.

 

Surely these are new standards that "restrict or impair trade". So is the Alberta government going to do anything about it?

Don't hold your breath.

--------------------------------

 

I would suspect this applies:

 

From: http://www.tilma.ca/pdf/TILMA_Agreement_April2009.pdf

 

PART V

EXCEPTIONS TO THE AGREEMENT

BOTH PARTIES

 

Forests, Fish and Wildlife

1. Measures adopted or maintained relating to:

( a ) the licensing, certification, registration, leasing or other disposition of rights

to the harvesting of forest or fish resources;

( b ) the management or conservation of forests, fish and wildlife; or

( c ) requirements that timber be used or manufactured within the territory of a

Party.

[jonn]

Before you get too angry, maybe you should read the MOE's response, especially this part on page 11:

Recognizing the overlap between salmon and steelhead fisheries, and acknowledging DFOs mandate, the ministry endorses the concept of resident‐only times and zones, and supports Canada’s proposal that such regulations allow access for both BC residents and non‐resident Canadians and restrict non‐resident alien anglers.

Based on this, all references to resident‐only times and zones within this document will herein include BC resident anglers and non‐resident Canadian anglers. The rationale supporting the Working Group’s recommendations for resident‐only times and zones are presented in the following sections.

 

 

Do anything about what? Maybe you need to actually read the doc too. See the section I quoted above.

 

O.K. fair enough so on 7.0 Appendices all those resident only dates should be Canadian residents only days.

[headscan]

O.K. fair enough so on 7.0 Appendices all those resident only dates should be Canadian residents only days.

Yup, you got it.

[Mykiss]

Congratulations Alberta, you just got handed BC steelhead on a silver platter. You're officially considered BC residents. What a pile of junk.

 

 

Hardly...we still pay the daily CW fees plus the non-resident non-tidal angling licence..to say we got BC steelhead on a platter is inaccurate...I am disappointed that they did not move forward with any means of tracking the usage of angling groups on the systems...with certainty that it is inevitable that there will be a user group(NRA's) that will have to be regulated on those systems.... I applaud MOE for seeing through the agenda minded working groups for allowing "all" Canadians to enjoy a CANADIAN resource...however they had there opportunity to change there ability to track user groups however could not pull the trigger on it.

[jack]

".however they had there opportunity to change there ability to track user groups however could not pull the trigger on it. "

 

Other than CW tags/questionaires and guiding rod-day totals, how would you propose to change their ability to track user groups? I'm interested to know the logistics of your methodology.

 

 

Also curious as to how many, without comprehending what the regs actually meant, proceeded to set their hair on fire and sent snot-a-grams to the Minister of Environment ?

j

 

[dutchie]

Congratulations Alberta, you just got handed BC steelhead on a silver platter. You're officially considered BC residents. What a pile of junk.

 

 

whats junk is you , your a disgrace to the sport of flyfishing , this sport is of gentleman and kings , plus now ladies , all i ever see of you is yak this and yak that , my 3 year grandson has more manners then you , why don't you just keep your opinions to yourself as i think most of us from alberta are sick of hearing from you

 

now go cry to your mommy

[Mykiss]

".however they had there opportunity to change there ability to track user groups however could not pull the trigger on it. "

 

Other than CW tags/questionaires and guiding rod-day totals, how would you propose to change their ability to track user groups? I'm interested to know the logistics of your methodology.

 

 

Also curious as to how many, without comprehending what the regs actually meant, proceeded to set their hair on fire and sent snot-a-grams to the Minister of Environment ?

j

 

 

 

Jack,

 

Right on two counts but you missed the rod day booking system for NRA's.

[jack]

Jack,

 

Right on two counts but you missed the rod day booking system for NRA's.

 

"but you missed the rod day booking system for NRA's"

 

Would that not be duplicated on CWs ? Resident, non-resident and alien angler numbers are all tracked, along with CW tags. I suppose the only thing they don't track is the area/watershed, although that info is recorded through the steelhead questionaire. I'm just wondering what other tracking info would be valuable?

j

 

[Ricinus]

"but you missed the rod day booking system for NRA's"

 

Would that not be duplicated on CWs ? Resident, non-resident and alien angler numbers are all tracked, along with CW tags. I suppose the only thing they don't track is the area/watershed, although that info is recorded through the steelhead questionaire. I'm just wondering what other tracking info would be valuable?

j

 

Actually they track the watershed also as Nonresidents have to specify the watershed when they apply for CW.

 

 

Regards Mike

[PGK]

The rod day booking system would have been ideal. I guess they'll be putting plenty of money into a creel program?? Or they'll just hope they've appeased the majority of BCers and it will go away, until it becomes apparent that the new rules are having X, Y, Z effect on things. MoE is region 6 has some funny quirks not readily apparent to people outside BC or not familiar with how the ministry cogs work.

Dutch, I think you had best read your reply and then tell me who is rude and lacking manners. You posted nothing useful in regards to the actual discussion, and wasted my time reading your gibberish attack post. Grow up. I remind you, again, that you have a business to run, and you don't present the best image of yourself publicly. I haven't seen Dave Jensen come on here and tell people to go cry to their mommies, even if he might think it. What you lack in class, you make up for with ignorance. I will no longer reply to personal attacks on this forum. You have all proven yourselves far too ignorant and close minded to be wasting my time on.