sirocco Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hi everyone, My father and I were fishing a stream earlier this evening with one pool holding several bulls. I had my rod rigged up with a sink tip leader (no sinking line) and tried two different streamers before packing it in for the day. The first was a furry, tan coloured rodent or fish imitation (i'm not sure), and the other was a black wooly bugger (not sure what size but probably 1.5 - 2 inches long. The group of bulls was sitting in about three feet of water where the deepest part of the pool started to get shallower (this would be the tailout?). Well, I tried several different methods for the presentation but I didn't really feel like I knew what I was doing. First I stood upstream of them and tried to dead drift the fly to them, then I tried my best at the down and across method, then i stood straight across from them and cast upstream and let it drift down, then cast directly across and stripped it back, then stood below them and stripped the streamer downstream towards me. On some of the drifts it seemed the fly drifted within inches of them but none of them would budge. It was early evening, about 7pm, and I'm unfamiliar with the feeding habits of bulls so that may have kept them away. Basically I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong? We'll hopefully be heading back in the next few days so any tips would be great. Thanks! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 get about 2 or 3 dozendifferent flies maybe 10-15 different types and a few different sizes ranging form 2-6inches...they might be off...could be presentation but ide say flies selection might hav bin it...ive had alot of bulls refuse 20 plus flies before gulping or chasing down the "magic fly" for the day...seems too be the bulltrout way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonefisher Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 tough to say do you think the bulls could have either a. seen you, or b. been fished that day? They do turn off like other trout do...... Also and I don't say this in a rude way but are you positive they were all bulls? Just asking I hope you don't take the question the wrong way. I have found bulls like that as well that seem to be inactive and have often found these are good days to search for other bull trout in shallower faster lies....... The best places I find bulls some days are any dropoffs especially when in corners...... even if its just a slight drop off say 6 inchs. Or even places where the shallow riffles flows from a steep angle into a flater area. I think they take advantage of these places when feeding as this faster water probably means less control for smaller fish especially wounded ones plus a bit of current break and and bit of ambush cover. Some time you can see the massive chase down they put on your streamers from distances farther then you would ever expect them to even in quite riffly water....... I have caught my biggest bulls in faster water from 3-4 feet deep down to 8-10inchs. My longest bull in a river came out of a long riffly run in water I would have said was maybe 8 inchs deep....... Pools seem to be a good place if they are feeding really actively but at some times you have to search out the feeding ones....... Good luck Oh and I am not a pro.......just offering some personal opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirocco Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share Posted August 8, 2007 Hi guys, thanks for the replies. It very well could be that I just didn't have that "magic" fly, so I'll make sure I try a bigger variety next time. LoneFisher, is it likely that they would have seen me? Thinking back on it the pool was quite clear and they were only 8-10 ft out so I suppose if I could see them they could see me as well? And I certainly didn't make an effort to conceal myself haha, it just didn't dawn on me that I should. I am positive they were bulls though, and they were in a group of four with the two big guys out front and the smaller ones in behind them. It's also possible that they had already been fished that day but I don't think the pressure is huge in that area. As far as presentation goes, what do you guys find works best? Thanks for the tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chidders Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 The way I understand it the fish can see up, and in front very well but not when you are behind their tails. You mentioned you were beside them so it is possible they spotted you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipestoneflyguy Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 It sure sounds like they may have seen you. When you head back remember to always be aware of your silloutte on the horizon - you have to draw a theoretical line from the pool depth to what ever makes up the horizon from the bullies point of view, be it trees or a high bank and stay under it. Completely avoid the sun side if possible, if your throwing a shadow over the water you may as well bring a marching band with you. Also keep in mind that walking noise like chattering/clicking rocks or even the subtle grinding of gravel can also put them down for a while. As for presentation I have been having great luck so far this year with swinging in from up stream and retrieving with short 2-3 inch strips with intermittant pauses. for myself I wouldn't go spot them next time I would just start swinging in my streamer (nymph or whatever) at the head of the pool and slowly work further and further in as opposed to risking a spook. If you could see that your streamer was within a couple inches chances are the fish saw you too. Next time out try a little blind faith and assume they will be there - its always worth a shot anyway. I've been catching quite a few bulls on stonefly nymphs in the last two weeks so maybe give a those a try (Double beads, black & brown) Good luck - I'm no pro either but using these tips has really helped me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Fishing for fish you can see (bull or otherwise) is usually a tough game. Especially when they have seen you first. You just can't stand anywhere near a crystal clear stream... they know your there... they won't touch a thing. For bulls, fish the dark shady areas in a pool, the little caves they hide in to ambush prey. Dark drop offs, ledges, rock piles, etc. Usually if you know where bull trout like and strip a fuzzy fly agressively by a spot like that, you can entice a take no matter WHAT color, size, etc your fishing. But you gotta think like a bull trout. Where would YOU hide in this river to NOT BE SEEN, and ambush prey. That's the key.. So in my opinion I would think that 1) these bull trout saw you for sure and 2) they sure didn't seem like they were in a feeding position or ambush position. Maybe they were fished or just not interested in eating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyBuggered Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I've almost stepped on bulls while wading upstream in the shallows and simply walked around upstream and still caught them. This is what I find works for me: I tie on a very large lifelike fly. My favorites are articulated conehead popsicles in bright colours but woolly buggers, clousers, double bunnies, etc... work just fine. I prefer either a sink tip or full sink but a long leadered floating line works too. I start at the head of the pool, walk in the water to a depth that can hold fish and cast upstream letting the fly bounce along the bottom. Once the line starts to tighten I put my rod tip down hold on to the line and let it swing until it is downstream of me. I pause for 5 to 10 seconds and then retreive the fly erratically with another long pause before I pull the line out of the water. Then I simply take one step downstream and repeat the process over and over until my fly has reached the bottom of the tailout. I catch the vast majority of bulls when I reach the point where I'm running out of room in the tailout (ie. the cast is at the end of the pool and the swing is thru the tailout). Often you'll think the pool is empty before you hook one. Its important to use a lifelike fly full of motion because when your swing is complete and you wait 5 - 10 seconds the fly is 'swimming' steady with the current. This is when I catch the majority of them. One thing that is amazing about bull trout is how predictable they are. I caught a tagged bull that was in the exact same pool 7 years earlier to the day. I've also caught the same bull 5 consecutive years in the same pool. These were probably resident fish but I've done the same with migratory ones too. For the past several years I've chased a run of migrating bulls and I've found them either in the exact same pool or within a few hudred metres on the same week every year. So when you find a good bull spot I'd recommend keeping it quiet if you want it to stay that way. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirocco Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 Thanks a lot for the replies guys. There's a lot of great information that you've shared here and I really appreciate it. We're probably heading out again tomorrow so we'll definitely try out these techniques. Thanks again for the tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wongrs Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 You can also vary the retrieve. I've also just stood at the head of a pool and bomb your streamer down to the end and pull it up slowly through the pool. When the line tightens (feels like a snag) then set the hook hard. And like Max has said, carry a selection of flies. I've caught bulls on small 1" streamers and 6" streamers. Sometimes there's just a switch that flicks on in their head and turns on that killer instinct and they'll want to chase something down and maul it. Same goes for varying the retrieve. Sometimes a slow retrieve does it; sometimes an erratic retrieve. I'm no pro-star either. Just sharing some luck that I've had the past couple of years. Good luck and let us know how you do next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirocco Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 Hi Guys, Had another go at them the other day and had a few strikes but they weren't really interested in what I had to offer. Nonetheless it was a blast and I got more action than the first try! I picked up a 3 inch yellow/grey/red streamer that was bigger than everything else I had and that's what they were into for the first minute or so. Man is it hard to set the hook on those guys... it seems you have to put all your weight into it! I never actually got the hook set but I tried haha. Anyway thanks again for all your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Bulls start spawning in August and the ones you are talking about hanging around in the tail out of a hole could likely be doing just that. Their hard wiring to procreate would overide their need to eat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreLastCast Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Not to contradict you Gary, but Bull Trout start their migration in Mid to Late August to spawn, but it is not very likely that any actual spawning would be taking place in large numbers at the time in question. The trigger is temperature, 9 C or 48 F, and this would give the fish the urge to start the migration to spawn and with the high ambient temperatures through out this summer, I don't believe that the temperatures are right yet. Plus my sources in the area sirocco is talking about have informed me that the migration is just now starting, which is definitely late compared to average years. (One of my sources is Linda's son and being you work with Linda, you might be able to agree he knows his stuff). I only say this because IMO, these fish were catchable, but are bound to be tough. They are definitely resident fish in the stream in question and are most likely so used to human presence that they would be tougher than say the migrating spawners that are not only feeding like crazy on their way upstream, the aggression factor would come into play, which in turn would make the non-residents easier to catch. Tough Bull Trout can be more frustrating that difficult Browns in the sense that they will continue to sit right in front of you, where Browns will just move away most of the time. I say I think these fish were catchable because Bull Trout are naturally more aggressive than other species, so I would say you would have to trigger an aggression strike. There are two options, one being change your fly often as advised above, hoping they would eventually decide to bite one of the patterns. The other option is to stick a big ugly Bunny pattern on and keep drifting it by them, basically hitting them on the head with it until one of them gets Pissed off enough to bite it. Option B has been more effective in my experiences, they will move out of the way 20, 40 or 60 times while it floats by them and then it seems you hit that last nerve and Blammo, fish on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I have always believed bulls were fall spawners and have seen bulls on redds in differant streams from early september to mid october. A local biologist with the ACA has told me of bulls spawning in early august in a small southern trib. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreLastCast Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Interesting. It must be a cold stream that is Glacial fed or cold spring fed. I know a lot of the Char way up North finish up their spawns a lot earlier than their southern cousins as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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