Xplorer

The mess at Burnt Timber was caused by aftergrad parties not Ohv users according to the news last night. Apparently the atv users did well when it came to their campsites(once again according to the news last night)

Hey guys, I didn't really want this to turn into an Atv bashing thread but stuff happens. I see posts like this: "remember these guys fix your cars and take your garbage to the dump, if this is all they require to come back to work and work hard then so be it." It is no wonder some people think of flyfisherman as elitist snobs. The people that I know who atv have a large range of careers and to sterotype them to this is a rather uneducated shot, even if it is a popular one to make. There are definitely morons out there who atv, but there are morons who fish, hunt, drive a car etc. Harp's I see where you are coming from about the damage done and how atving affects your enjoyment of the outdoors. What I don't see is how banning of one group is fair for everyone. The atv community would not be happy riding around in a gravel pit and only there, anymore than you would to fish in the bownees park lagoon and only there. I think the government is trying to find a middle ground where everyone can use the land that belongs to all of us. The atv user groups have been working with the government for years, building bridges, cleaning areas, educating people etc in an effort to improve the relationship with other user groups and reduce impact. There are a certain percentage of idiots in every hobby. There are lots of people who fish with bait, barbs on their hooks, out of season etc do we ban fishing? I think we are all going to have to find a way to deal with Atv use no matter what your side of the issue. I don't think Atv use is going to be banned anytime soon and judging from the governments comments as of late, more access for atv's is being looked at.

Hey guys and gals, I just saw the news on Global and Ctv about Mclean creek and how the situation appears to be getting better. They also said the total numbers of people were down from previous years so I am sure that affected the outcome. They have handed out many tickets but say less alcohol related offences. Ted Morton said things were looking better on his visit on Sat. I am encouraged by the amount of enforcement I am seeing, I just wish it would have happened 10 years ago. I worry that this is just a knee jerk reaction by the province that will dissapper shortly after the long weekend and everything will go back to chaos. The enforcement is needed all year. I also worry that this will just push the idiots somewhere else. Has anybody heard about how the other areas(livingstone,indian graves, crowsnest pass) are doing? I am a responsible Atv'er who avoids the Forestry like the plauge on all the long weekends, but hopefully this level of enforcement and education will continue and improve the situation. I have a little hope but time will tell cya

Thanks everyone. Great advice and pointers. I will give nymphing more time/effort from now on. I think I am going to try without the indicator more than with, but time will tell.

Hi again everyone, Lynn I am mostly talking about fishing the bow, but some smaller rivers, Elbow, Oldman, Livingstone and Quirk Creek. When I started flyfishing in 1980(on the bow) all I did (and most everybody else) was dryfly. That got me through to the 90's, then my flyfishing time went way down due to Career, Mortgage, Marriage etc. Started again in 2000 and been doing more each year. The rivers, fish and bugs have changed alot so I figured it was time to get good at nymphing. So, with that being said, I need all the help I can get. Thanks for the tips/advice guys, keep'em coming

Hey Guys, I have been reading the book Water Marks by Jim McLennan and just read the section "Nymphing Without Indicators". I was wondering how many actually fish this way vs using indicators, and how satisfiying it was or was not? Nymphing for me has always been very hit and miss with mostly miss. I would say that 90% of my fish are caught on dries or streamers. I try nymphing everytime I go out, with different types of indicators and with no indicators. I usually give up and go back to Dries/Streamers fairly quickly. Most nymphing success(which is little) has been on smaller creeks with very little on the Bow. I realize from reading many books and the posts here, that alot of fly fishing success is with nymphs. So I think I am missing out with limiting most of my fly fishing to Dries and Streamers. I guess I am asking is this a method that is worth trying and sticking with or should I keep with the indicators? Thanks

Hey Guys, Doesn't the guide come out around now? I checked a couple of Book stores with no luck. Thanks

Hey guys, All OHV`s on public land(designated area) require: Headlights and taillights Valid insurance, registration and a visible license plate Functional muffler and spark arrestor Also here`s some link`s to SRD`s website for some do`s and don`ts about Off Highway Travel SRD`s Website Off Highway Vehicle Guide

Thanks for the advice guys I have more questions of course, what about my wading boots. I have the regular felt soled boots, will they be ok or do I need more? The areas I would be going to I am very familar with and would be carefull of course.

Hey Guys, I normally don't fish from end of Oct to the start of May, but have been thinking about changing that. I am thinking about the bow in the northwest from my first adventures but I am concerned about my waders as they are the breathable type. I have read some online article's about them being ok but would like to hear from the guys who really know. I have only owned waders for 2 years, before that I wet waded everywhere and cold water never bugged me(never winter fished), but I am getting older and softer I guess. So can I dress properly enough under my breathables(there is lots of room) or should I just buy some neoprene's? Thanks

Hey Guys, I was fishing quirk creek yesterday and came across a bunch of small area's on the stream bottom that looked like fish egg's kinda. They varied in size and were a pale orange color. It was tough to tell what I was looking at because the stream has 1/2" of ice on it in the slow sections. The moving water was ice free. Have the bull trout started to spawn already or maybe even done? I rarely fish this late in quirk so I was curious. I have some blurry through the ice pics I will post later. Thanks

Thanks guys I measured the distance I marked on my rod and it comes out to 22".....holy crap! Probably my biggest fish on a dry and definitely my biggest brown. I never get to fish the lower bow, so this is a big fish for me The fish was in about a foot of water, three feet from the bank a short distance from a well used path. I have walked past that tree/spot many many times without giving it another thought. That will change now! It really made my day....

Hi Guys, Went down to the Bow River in the Nw this afternoon, caught a couple of small rainbows and a white fish on dries. There were not many bug's out, probably due to the breeze and that it was too warm. I was on my way back from an area I usually fish when I spotted a small rise behind a tree that had fallen into the river. This was on the shady side of the river too. I decided to give him a try thinking it was another 12" rainbow. Tried a few different flies, nothing. Fish was still was eating something I could not see, So I tried the smallest fly I had with me, an 18 parachute adams. First cast, small dimple, fly disappears, set hook, two jumps and into my backing we go. It was awesome, the best fish I have caught up in the Nw. Brought him in, took a couple of photos, made a quick mark on my rod for overall measurement and off he went. Here's the pics I think he is just over 20", but have to measure the mark on my rod. Made my afternoon.... cya

Thanks for info guys, I may still go down to the Bow Crow office to verify some things about a specific area. Thanks headscan, for the link, It's just what I was looking for! cya

Hey guys, I have always heard that if you access the water from a roadway or pulbic land and then walk up and down the creek/river you are ok if you don't go past the High water mark onto private land. Is this true? I have read through the fishing regulations and it is not really clear other than getting permission to cross private land, native land and metis land. It does not mention the High water mark and access rights otherwise. Maybe I missed it? Is it in print somewhere for us to read or should I take a trip to the BowCrow Forestry office and ask them? Thanks

Hey again guys, Thanks for the info. It sounds like some are having better experiences and some are still not so great. That's better than all bad experiences I guess. Terry H asked if this was an Alberta thing and I think he was refering to riding up and down creeks. I don't understand why people do this, crossing a creek is one thing but riding around in it like an idiot is something I have never understood. The quad squad has been putting in bridges and some people still feel the need to ride around it and go through the creek, so then they install fencing and people try to find a way around that too. I wish that there was enforcement to land on those guys with major penalties. I was in BC this summer around Invermere and saw the signs posted on the trails around the lake Enid area stating the $100,000 max fine and up to a year in Jail for eniviromental abuse. The quads were doing doughnuts around the sign and they were having some kind of mud bog with there trucks in the valley behind the lake. I went down to the main day use area(where everybodys camps, even though it says not to.) and low an behold there was a BC forestry/fisheries truck there, when he was checking my fishing license, I asked about the quads, he said they weren't doing anything wrong. I like the idea of the law, but if no one enforces it, its useless. We seem to have the same lack of enforcement here but here we have way more quads. From 2000 to 2006 the number of new sales of ATVs in Alberta has increased 125 per cent from 10,400 units to 23,438 units. Alberta had the highest number of sales of new ATVs in 2006 with 23,438 units. This accounted for over a quarter (26 per cent) of all new ATV sales in Canada, yet Alberta accounted for only 10 per cent of the population. Both these numbers are from Canadian Off-Highway Vehicle Distributors Council. 2006 all terrain vehicle annual industry statistics report, for the model year January 1, 2006 to December 31, 2006. BC only sold 8212 new quads in 06 yet have a population of a million more than Alberta. I am sure some of Alberta's sales are due to people coming in from BC and Sask to buy in a province with one tax, but not that many. So is our economy to blame, do we Albertans have too much disposible income? I don't know, but user conflicts are going to continue to happen, especially with another 22,000+ quads sold each year. They all want to ride somewhere..... I think we need more user education(dealer when selling), enforcement and atv user groups putting back into the resource. Sorry for the long read/rant Lance

Thanks Tako

Hey SJW, Awesome to hear that you are atving responsibly. I thought you had a dirt bike for some reason? We should fish quirk creek togther sometime. Doh, hijacking my own thread...lol Cya Lance

Hi everyone, I was wondering how peoples fishing and enjoyment of the outdoors has been this year so far regarding Atv's and offroad vehicles. I am not trying to start any atv bashing or rehash the access debates, we have all been there and done that. I am part of an Atv club that is trying to make a difference and educate off highway users about the impact of their recreation. So, I was wondering if it is better or worse or no different than years past. Looking for any experiences good or bad. I hope everyone has been having a great summer. Thanks Lance

Hi Everyone, I have a fly that I found in my fly box and have been using it a bit. It is a wet fly and I have been having good luck with it lately especially after dark. I have looked online and in a few books looking for the name of it with no luck. I think it might just be a generic or attractor pattern but was wondering if someone here might id it, if it has a name. I was also wondering what it might be imitating....an emerger of some kind maybe? Thanks in advance, here's a pic

Thanks for the reply cdock I went to Wholesale sports and talked to a couple of the sales guys. What I wanted was a kickboat, kinda looks like a cross between at small pontoon boat and a belly boat. It's weighs in at 12lbs and has shoulder straps for easier carrying. I picked one up and gave it a go last week, it works well.It was quite easy to haul around. You sit lower in the water then my pontoon boat and it is definitely not as stable but works well in ponds and small lakes. I may take it into Elbow lake on the long weekend. Cya

Hi guys, I just was out at Champion lakes with my pontoon boat (Water Skeeter BackCast) and it is killing me hauling it up the trail to the lakes and between them. Some people have been driving up the hill with there trucks now, but not too sure about that being the right thing to do. I met another angler there who had a small pontoon boat that looked much easier to haul into these kinds of lakes. I checked online and WaterSkeeter makes smaller packable boats and so does Outcast/Fishcast. So do they work pretty good in small lakes and ponds? I have fins so that part is covered, but what about oars?? Are the required by law? I did not see any on this fellows boat, so I wonder. I did do a search, but "Pontoon boat" or "small pontoon boat" just linked to fullsize Pontoon boat discussions. Thanks

Hi Mike, You are right on about the trails, Onion, Hummingbird and Canary are allowed for atv use during the dates specified, South Ram trail is everything but motorized users. Ranger creek trail is open in the winter (Dec-Mar I think)to atv's. I though you were saying no Atv access at all, I get what you were saying now I too hope Nick's trip to visit his MLA is good one with results. cya guys Lance

Hey Smitty You make some very good points and I am all for sustainablity. I am all for staying on designated trails and using bridges. Atv groups such as the calgary quad squad have been working with other user groups and installing bridges and fencing, repairing trails etc. One of the guys from SRD mentioned that on Sat's news report on Mclean. The topic of user fees similar to a park pass was brought up in the past for ohv users...by the users themselves, and the government ignored the idea. I understand that the government has to do something about the situation but they are also listening to both sides. There are many atv business's and off road related money brought into the province and those people have there say too. How many atv dealers are there in calgary and area alone. Usually what ends up happening is that government trys to keep everybody happy and it ends up not being enough for either side. I do not want to atv in a national park. There seems to be this misconception that atver's want to go everywhere and destroy everything. There may be a few that do, but thankfully the national parks are well protected. This is far from a new problem, for atv and offroad enthusiants this has been going on for many years. There are many groups out there that are working with the government and other stakeholders to keep the areas open to atv's and Offroad use. The Waiparous area was a crazy free for all, so they brought in GAMP and designated the trails, limited the truck trails, and left most of the atv trails. What happened, riding at waiparous is so much better now. Is it perfect?? No, but it is a start and the government feels that it is a success. Similar restrictions were placed in Indian Graves(800lb limit for ohv`s) and the now the government considers that area much better off. What will they do to Mclean...who knows.... Also just so you know, Onion creek, Hummingbird creek and canary creek trails are still open to atv use from July 1 to March 15 every year. They did not ban atv's and are monitoring trail use. Thanks Lance

Hi TerryH, The biggest problem with posting's or email is that people may read it in a different tone than you wrote it and take your point or opinion the wrong way. I did that with your comments and for that I apologize. I think we both want similar goals, because I agree with you that things cannot continue the way they are going. I would like to see more enforcement rather than areas closed but I guess time will tell. I look forward to more discussion on this topic and sorry to the original poster for getting a bit off topic. Thanks Lance