Bigtoad

Whataniceguy, perhaps I shouldn't have lumped you in with twobyfour (he was the one lamenting the Livingstone) but you both seemed to be preaching from the same pulpit: this site starting = the degradation of fishing in Alberta. I think that is an unfair statement and that 1. you're giving way too much credit to this website and 2. you're not giving nearly enough credit to those members on it. The original post that we've successfully hijacked wasn't about an overcrowded river, but a guide and his client(s) who totally neglected fishing etiquette. The Bow and other rivers being busy is just a fact of life now whether you want to blame this site for it or not. I don't think the issue is crowding but about the education of those fishermen that are fishing. As for educating fishermen, not only on techniques but also on the do's and don'ts of fishing etiquette, I believe this site is doing a great job. More people on the rivers is going to mean more idiots too. If it wasn't for this site, I and many of the other people on it, may have been the idiots fishing someone's run and stepping on their rod. It's only through educating the ignorant that we can improve behavior. You can either keep all of the "secret" areas, and flies, and techniques, and proper behavior to yourself and hoard it or help others to improve as well and maybe improve your experience on the river too. Or you can just say screw it and walk a few miles so you can find some solitude which seems like that's what you really want anyway. I continue to come to this site because I want to learn and become less ignorant; perhaps the people you know don't come here anymore because they've decided to stop learning? Too bad...

Giovanne, the problem I have with both of these guys is that they are bitching entirely about THIS site. I'll admit, the internet has probably increased pressure (not only fishing pressure) in certain areas of the province, but to single this site out, regardless of all of the good it has done and tries to do, is absurd. How many of the random-camping-shanty-town-atv-driving-bait-chuckers that have infested the Livingstone and many other areas of the province have used this site to find out where to go? I know that there are atver's and RVer's that use this site but most seem very responsible in their use of the land and equally disgusted by the other users who do not. In fact, this site has deterred me (and I am sure many others) from fishing the Livingstone because of all of the crap I here about with the random campers and quad users. There might be other sites you could try to blame for the increase in use of areas of Alberta but to blame this one? Really? As several have already said; to understand why things are so crowded (relatively) you just have to look at the population increase of Alberta in the last decade and notice the amount of RVs heading out to the foothills every weekend. To single out this site as the main reason your precious fishing areas 30 years ago aren't like you remember is like blaming a guy who drives a hybrid for global warming. Sure, they might be a tiny, minuscule part of the problem, but not the main one by a landslide, and at least they recognize the issue and are trying desperately to do something about it. And as I said before, if they don't like the site, and believe it is from the depths of hell itself: then don't be hypocritical and post on it! Go bugger off and bitch on some site that actually is part of the problem and not one that is trying to solve it. You know, take the twobyfour out of your own freaking eye before taking the sliver out of someone else's.

twobyfour and whataniceguy; I'm sorry, but I've read several of your posts on this thread and others and I've got to say that you both seem like real *** to me. This site has nothing to do with the increase in fishing pressure on "your" rivers and has done much more good than harm. To blame a single site for the increase in fishing pressure as well as increase in idiots fishing is naive and pretty absurd. An example: When I joined the site, several years ago, I posted a picture of a brown trout I caught on the RD that I had put on the rocks so that I could get a better picture. I got blasted for it by some but I learned something that day; I shouldn't be putting fish on rocks. Good lesson. I've learned many valuable lessons on this website including respecting fish and respecting the water that I fish on, and respecting the other fisherman that I share the water with. It is a very valuable tool, not only in improving my own fishing, but also in giving back to the sport that I love. You will always encounter idiots either when fishing or on a website forums. The only thing you can really do is accept that people do stupid things, call out the people making the stupid mistake, and let them know what they have done wrong.... not unlike what I am currently doing right now. If you don't like the website, then do us all a favor please and get off of it!

It really should have been called "The Ontario Fly Fisher Magazine". The few articles not from an Ontario perspective were good though. Too bad really.

It's actually "know not" there Wolfie. And what a fine example of irony...

Why not put a sign there explaining all of the hard work that was done there and why and telling/asking people to kindly keep there lines the hell out of that area? Great work! If anybody knows of any other similar projects (especially around the central area) that are happening in the future I'd love to get involved. Cheers.

Research suggests that to become an "expert" at something, you need to log in around 10,000 hrs of focused practice. Just doing some quick math that puts us at about 8 hours a day, 40 days a year, for about 30 years. The amount that I go fishing a year, I should be able to start feeling good about myself about the time I'm 85 or so. However, by that time, arthritis will be kicking in big time and I'll have forgotten most of what I've learned in the previous 9,000 hrs. Bummer...

Griffiths gnat, chronies, chernobyl ants

My buddy from Edmonton was down in Red Deer visiting his family so we snuck out for a couple of hours. I believe his smile says it all. Happy Thanksgiving!

Did you try a boatman/backswimmer???

Something to definitely think about, for sure. I'm wondering if I didn't get some bug spray on some of my tippet or something? I was out on the RD one night that when the Muskol was dry (23% deet) the skeeters were back on me and I would have to reapply. I have all of my tippet on the outside of my vest for easy use and I can't help but think I must have gotten some spray on it and that can't be good for it. Must be great for my skin too! The Rio stuff I have now has that fancy-dansy-rubber-ring-dispenser-thingy on it that I think might help to stop UV and bug spray from deteriorating the line so quickly. We'll see... might still have to bite the bullet and go flouro.

I'm just pulling when I test the knot, not snapping. I bought a new spool of 5X S.A. tippet back in the summer and when I went to use it, I just had to put a little bit of pressure on it and it snapped. It was garbage. It might have just been the spool but I'm not buying that crap again. I tested the Rio in the store before I bought it and it would probably make me bleed before it breaks when you just pull it tight. I've still busted off a fish with the 5x Rio but it was when I got over zealous on a big rainbow gobbling a backsmimmer on the surface. I just couldn't help but set when it smashed my hook and I snapped it. I relaxed and didn't break off another so far. Cheers.

That's a sweet brown! It didn't happen to have an elk hair caddis in it's mouth did it? I'm not sure if 5X of any kind could handle some of the browns on the RD but I'd at least like a fighting chance. The stuff I was using didn't give me that. It broke before there was even a fight to have. And yes, I'm sure you do know who I was talking with about Frog's Hair. I used the Rio this weekend at Beaver Lake and it held up really well. I was using 5X and we were hunting them in the weeds with boatmen. We had quite a few that were blowing through the weeds like crazy and jumping, etc, and the light tippet never broke once. Biggest was a 19" that tried to wrap itself around everything and the tippet held up. I think I'll be sticking with the Rio. I'm sure it will degenerate over time but for $5 you can't go wrong.

Yeah, me and another guy. The fishing didn't pick up much after you left. They were sporadically rising to some minuscule mayflies just above where you were and I managed to pull one out from there at dark. Both of us forgot the headlamps so we didn't stay too long after things got dark. Nice to meet a member up here. Cheers, Todd

Maybe you should try catching bigger fish? Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely check out those 2 knots. I hit up the Red Deer again last night with a friend of mine. The fish weren't rising like the were the other night and the water was at least 2 feet higher than several days ago. However, I did manage to land both fish that I tagged in the 18-20 inch range. I had bought new Rio mono tippet in 1X, 3X and 5X after my last misfortune and was hoping it would do the trick so that I wouldn't have to fork over the $ for frog's hair. I was using 5X and was able to still put lots of pressure on the fish and landed them both quite quickly. I was using improved clinch and felt very confident in the line. I'm hoping this is a good sign of things to come. Cheers.

That's what we ended up doing and it worked out ok. I only got about an hour of fishing though. It's probably for the best that you didn't attempt it. The last part up to the lake is the steepest and hardest part of the whole hike. If your buddy was tired in the valley, you might have had to use him as fish bait up at the top. Beautiful spot to be buried.... I might have to have my ashes put into a salt block and then hauled up there. There are worse places to be left to die. Cheers.

That really sucks that you didn't make it. Looks even wetter than I remember. That gorge is awesome. Too bad it gets hammered, I bet there would be some monsters lurking in there. Cheers.

I tie a surgeon's knot from leader/tippet/tippet where you make the loop with both tippet and leader and then pass the tippet and butt end of leader through the loop twice. I tie just a simple clinch knot or improved clinch knot from tippet to fly. I believe I had tied an improved clinch knot and tested it pretty well before using when I lost the big brown from the story above. I use lots of twists, gob on it like crazy, and check each knot before I try casting with it. It's just amazing to me how many times the knot will break when I'm testing it out or it passes my pull test and then pops off on a fish without due stress. It's a conundrum wrapped in a riddle, wrapped in a slice of bacon. Mmmmmm bacon..... What am I doing wrong!?!?!?!? Cheers.

Thanks for all of the input. A couple of commments: 1. I don't think I set it too hard most of the time. The large fish I have lost this year have mostly all been on for at least a few seconds before the knot/tippet breaks. 2. I wet/gob on my knots like crazy. If it's about lube, I can't lube anymore without turning my dry fly to wet. 3. It's mostly the consistency with tippet that bugs me. I have 3X Orvis that I really like and sometimes I would straighten out a hook if it was snagged before the line would break. However, periodically it would break as I am checking my knot right after I tied it. I try to be very consistent with how I tie knots so that I can try to rule that out as a factor. Don't even get me started about the Climax (ironic really, more like "premature breakage before climax") and Scientific anglers tippet and consistency! Cheers.

I picked up some Rio today and tested it there in the store before purchasing. The 5X felt like it should. I think I'll sneak out again near the end of the week and see if I can test it out on some hogs. I'm just not sure if I'm ready to fork over a ton of $ for something that may or may not be the answer. Thanks for all of the input. I'd love more if anyone has any. Cheers.

I was out on the Red Deer tonight and the water was alive with monster browns sucking in caddis. Of course, they were being incredibly picky. I finally got one to hit my fly and fish on! It immediately went across the current and downstream and I was into my backing before I even knew what to do. I have him on for several minutes when suddenly the line just goes slack and after a very LONG reel in I realize my fly has busted off at the knot. It was 3X and I wasn't horsing it. I was pissed off. It was a freaking big fish! A couple of regulars came along and they said to fool these bad boys you have to go to 5X. And so I tell them about the hog that just busted off my 3X and ask how in the world that's going to work and they assured me it would. So I grab my new 5X tippet and tie it on and go to put the fly on and snap, it breaks. I try the line and it just snaps again, and again. I peel off a bunch of line and try at a different place and it snaps like nothing as well. So I'm really pissed now. So to make a long story even longer, they recommended I use Frog's Hair flourocarbon tippet because they do and have very few, if any problems with knots or tippet getting brittle. They were even kind enough to give me a few feet to try out and a fly that had worked for them before. Thanks! I'm SO sick of my tippet (even really good brand tippet) breaking either at the knot or just getting rotten that I'm almost willing to try anything. I've lost some really big fish this year because of bad tippet (and I check my knots all of the time!). I've lost all confidence in any tippet I've tried. Doesn't seem to matter which brand either. I've tried lots of different kinds and have had limited success and complete failure with each of them. So is Frog's Hair the answer? Oh, and I did manage to get one beautiful 21 incher in just at dark. He was all dressed up with no place to go. And my tippet held! Cheers.

We'll see how that strategy works out for the Oilers. I'd just like to see one Alberta team do well this year. Is that really that much to ask?

My wife actually caught this one but I netted it. When she had it on, I wasn't sure how big it was and then I took the rod for a moment while she was getting the net from the front of the boat to give to me. When she gave me the rod, there was no doubt the size that I was dealing with. It took an incredible amount of self control to give that rod back to her when I knew what kind of fish was on the other end. Cheers.

If I was a guide on the Bow, I think I'd give them a good suggestion but if it was a fly that I knew was giving me an edge over others and giving my clients the best possible fishing experience, I don't think I'd share. That's how I would make my living and not everyone needs to know every fly that works. Myself though, I try to be as helpful as I can to other fishermen, especially when they are new and/or experiencing difficulty and I am not. I would hope this good karma comes around sometime. However, I should point out that I'm not always honest, especially with "friends." I have cousins that I am always competing with when fishing. When we go ice fishing for whites on Gull or Sylvan, if I catch or see a couple fairly quickly, I can bet that one of my cousins will be over in a hot second pounding on my darkhouse door demanding to see what I am using. Often, I will have a spare spool sitting there ready for just such an occasion and will tie onto it the most godly thing I can find in my box. When he demands to see what I'm using, I show him the abomination and send him on a random goose chase of fishing for the next hour. Meanwhile, I keep catching fish and pulling farther ahead and he just gets more frustrated because he thinks he is using the same thing as me and not seeing anything. I don't feel bad about this either. Last spring we were at Beaver Lake and the fish were going crazy for chronies but you had to match it correctly. After my dad and I had pulled out 3 or 4 each this same cousin comes sliding over in his pontoon asking what I'm using. Graciously (this time) I cast over what I'm using into his lap so he can have a look. He picks it up, says "nice tie", and then quickly bites it off my line and speeds away! It wasn't 2 minutes that he had that tied onto his line and was into his first of several fish. Bastard! But I love fishing with him. Cheers.

I don't remember any sign of any kind at the turnoff and I was looking. The turnoff is miss-able and you should crowd the South side of the valley so you don't miss it once the Ranger Valley begins to swing to the West. Here's a Google Earth image of Lost Guide Lake and the turnoff. The little blue square is the Lake. The coordinates at the bottom of the pic are the coordinates where you need to turn off of Ranger Creek. I had my mouse over the spot when I took the screenshot, my mouse didn't show up on the shot though. Put those coordinates into a GPS and you're golden. (Of course, they might just be coordinates to the nearest Starbucks.... hard to say really). Cheers.