Lesson On Special Interest Groups

[Guest Sundancefisher]

If only we could lobby for fishing as well as the private healthcare companies lobby in the US.

 

The BBC put up this very interesting article:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8201711.stm

 

While we all know that there are exceptions where the system goes wrong...that applies to everywhere. The Pro Private group in the US wants to make Canada out to be communist and with poor health care.

 

I cut my finger bad last week and had stitches in under an hour. No cost, no hassle, no dealing with an HMO, went to what ever medical place I wanted to.

 

When I was a passenger in a minivan roll over on the highway I was rushed to hospital, seen very quickly, xrayed etc...and was quite happy with my treatment.

 

When I had a sore stomach and vomiting from the pain I went to a medicenter. The doctor asked if I wanted the good news or the bad news. I said good news...he said it was not kidney stones. I asked for the bad news and he said my appendix needs to come out. He called ahead to the hospital and I showed up 30 minutes later after stopping for some cloths at home. I got to the hospital and the doctor saw me within 10 minutes of arriving. He also said I needed surgery. I asked what my options were and he said "death". Hmmm...let's do the operation then. I was in surgery within 2 hours of being diagnosed. Not a bad system.

 

Anyways...15.3% of Americans do not have coverage (over 40 million people). Any bad illness could financially ruin them. If they have an emergency they can go to the hospital free of charge but make sure someone drives you. Ambulances call around until they find a hospital with "space" for a freebee. Any follow up care is on your dime. If they can sue you for it they will try. If you have a preexisting condition or come down with a problem...any follow up renewals of insurance will exclude those conditions. If you have a bad disease in the family a company may fire you to save money and get them off their health care plan.

 

Yes...if you have millions of dollars you can walk into the best hospital and they will do everything and then some to help you...provide you pay.

 

I shake my head in disbelief at what some of the right wing moderators say about Canadian health care.

 

Scary in fact the lies they say.

 

Sun

[calkid75]

This is a very interesting pair of topics.

 

When it comes to loddying, it really would be great if we could lobbyfor fishing or for that matter natural resources, like well funded private interest groups. Not just americian special interested groups but any well funded special interest groups. Tying in health care to this, more locally it drives me crazy when every anything is suggested about changing our health system how the nutz in the "Friends of Medicare" group always get quoted by the media.

 

After spending about 5 years living in the US, and using the system down there, I really felt as if they did have better care. I understand that many do not but in my position I had quicker, and seemingly more attentive care. And I did have to pay something each time. I thought it was great though as I guess you expect to pay for any service you receive. I don't know why here it is such a sin to suggest user fees. I do not want to say that our system is bad but it could be so much better. I really think we need to have a public and private system. It just does not seem right that people try to stop us from buying more when it comes to health care. I know that if I was ever waiting listed here for any treatment I would cross the border and pay to get treatment ASAP.

 

There are some other issues that I think we are going to have to address in our system soon. Like,how far do we go in coverage for people. Modern medicine can do a lot to prolong life, extending natural aging. Do we cover this? The costs grow exponentially as technology improves and I don't think that we can fund everything for everyone. And I don't think we (well I know I) want to.

 

This is just me two cents, as I know many will disagree.

 

Guy

 

 

 

If only we could lobby for fishing as well as the private healthcare companies lobby in the US.

 

The BBC put up this very interesting article:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8201711.stm

 

While we all know that there are exceptions where the system goes wrong...that applies to everywhere. The Pro Private group in the US wants to make Canada out to be communist and with poor health care.

 

I cut my finger bad last week and had stitches in under an hour. No cost, no hassle, no dealing with an HMO, went to what ever medical place I wanted to.

 

When I was a passenger in a minivan roll over on the highway I was rushed to hospital, seen very quickly, xrayed etc...and was quite happy with my treatment.

 

When I had a sore stomach and vomiting from the pain I went to a medicenter. The doctor asked if I wanted the good news or the bad news. I said good news...he said it was not kidney stones. I asked for the bad news and he said my appendix needs to come out. He called ahead to the hospital and I showed up 30 minutes later after stopping for some cloths at home. I got to the hospital and the doctor saw me within 10 minutes of arriving. He also said I needed surgery. I asked what my options were and he said "death". Hmmm...let's do the operation then. I was in surgery within 2 hours of being diagnosed. Not a bad system.

 

Anyways...15.3% of Americans do not have coverage (over 40 million people). Any bad illness could financially ruin them. If they have an emergency they can go to the hospital free of charge but make sure someone drives you. Ambulances call around until they find a hospital with "space" for a freebee. Any follow up care is on your dime. If they can sue you for it they will try. If you have a preexisting condition or come down with a problem...any follow up renewals of insurance will exclude those conditions. If you have a bad disease in the family a company may fire you to save money and get them off their health care plan.

 

Yes...if you have millions of dollars you can walk into the best hospital and they will do everything and then some to help you...provide you pay.

 

I shake my head in disbelief at what some of the right wing moderators say about Canadian health care.

 

Scary in fact the lies they say.

 

Sun

 

[Castuserraticus]

Two articles with different perspectives:

"Using the Economists World in Figures I think there is a very interesting and maybe appalling story to tell. In its simplest terms a healthcare system is there to extend the longevity of live of the population. It is the single best and simplest way to judge it because we can all find examples of where one country is better than another but the longevity stats don't lie. When we use that framework the picture is incredibly different. The US has many of the best doctors and medical care in the world but it doesn't work for the population as a whole and therein lies the problem.

 

"According to the Economist the total US spend on healthcare is 15.4% of GDP including both state and private . With that it gets 2.6 doctors per 1,000 people, 3.3 hospital beds and its people live to an average age of 78.2

 

"UK - spends 8.1% of GDP, gets 2.3 doctors, 4.2 hospital beds and live to an average age of 79.4. So for roughly half the cost their citizens overall get about the same benefit in terms of longevity of life.

 

"Canada - spends 9.8% of GDP on healthcare, gets 2.1 doctors, 3.6 hospital beds and live until they are 80.6 yrs

 

"Now if we look at the more social model in Europe the results become even more surprising:

 

"France - spends 10.5%, 3.4 docs, 7.5 beds and live until they are 80.6

 

"Spain - spends 8.1% , 3.3 docs , 3.8 beds and live until they are 81

 

"As a whole Europe spends 9.6% of GDP on healthcare, has 3.9 doctors per 1,000 people, 6.6 hospital beds and live until they are 81.15 years old.

 

"The list goes on. The truth is that in many cases as is pointed out the healthcare system is better in the US than in some other countries BUT US citizens must therefore get ill more often than any other country in the West in order to achieve the truly appalling statistic that they are the 41 longest living nation on earth with France, Spain, Norway, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, Andorra, Holland, Greece and Sweden all featuring in the top 20 longest living nations and the UK and Germany at 22.

 

And from another commentator:

"Canada is a wonderful place to have a nasty gash on one's forehead stitched, or to break one's nose in a game of pick-up baseball; but have cancer, or need eye surgery, or want an MRI, and the business of medicine in Canada and/or the UK breaks down badly in favour of medical care here in the US. For example... and we wish to thank The Investor's Business Daily for the data noted here this morning...

 

"... here in the US men and women survived cancer at an average of just a bit better than 65%. In England only 46% survive. In the US, 93% of those diagnosed with diabetes receive treatment within six months; in Canada only 43% do, and in the UK only 15% do! For those seniors needing a hip replacement and getting one within six months, 15% get it done in the UK; 43% get it done in Canada ... and in the US 90% do! For those waiting to see a medical specialist, 23% of those in the US get in within four weeks, while 57% in Canada have not yet done so, and in the UK 60% are still waiting after four weeks.

 

"When it comes to proper medical equipment, in the US there are 71 MRI or CT scanners available per million people. In Canada there are but 18, and in the UK there are only 14! Ah, but the best figure of all is this: 11.7% of those 'seniors' in the US with 'low incomes' say they are in excellent health, which in and of itself sounds rather low ... rather disconcerting ... and an indictment of the system itself, doesn't it? But in Canada only 5.8% do!

 

"Yessiree bob, ya' jus' gotta' luv that collectivized, socialized medical care! Let's all go break a collective arm and enjoy the benefits of socialized medicine in the Commonwealth! (Canada) ... but heaven help you if you've got something really, really wrong. If that's the case, you'll be running south to the border faster than you can reach a specialist anywhere in Canada; of that we are certain."

 

The higher obesity rate and poor diet of the US compared to the food culture of Europe is a likely cause of the differences in life expectancy. Europeans also walk more because fewer own cars. Who's going to pay to lobby for laws mandating less junk food and decreasing the number of cars (higher taxes) in the US? Obama's policies do seem to target making driving more expensive.

[reevesr1]

When I have more time, I'll read all this plus links. But here is what I know.

 

Both my mother and father had cancer. My father died of his and my mother fully recovered. Both received absolutely excellent care, as they surely would have here in Canada. As my father was self employed, he could not afford health care for probably the last 10 yrs of his life. Their cancer sucked up all their retirement money. I don't care how capitalist you are, and I am plenty capitalist, there is just something wrong with that. The insurance companies have a total death grip on the medical system in the US. For me, it doesn't really matter. When I work in the states my company covers me and I am provided with outstanding health care. The access to service is quicker than it is here. If you are wealthy or have good company care, you will probably receive better, or at least more timely, overall care in the states (that is nothing more than my opinion based on my experiences). But if you do not have coverage through your company, or not independently wealthy, than there is little doubt, to me, that it is far better here in Canada.

 

The insurance companies and republican party are going to use whatever means they can to convince the majority of Americans that Canada's system is worse. Too damn much money involved for it to be otherwise. I watched Lou Dobbs comment on a report of Canada's system vs. the US. Many of the facts Castus brought up above were quoted. Dobbs ignored all the positive and focused on the negative aspects of Canada's system. (that confirmation bias thing again). Getting a 2 tiered system in the US will be a major uphill climb. Too many are afraid of it, and they are getting bombarded with all the horror stories from around the world while constantly being told the US has the worlds best health care. This is true. Too bad too many don't have access, or go bankrupt using it.

 

Edit: Cleaned up some obvious typos above. Also just read this on that right wing bastion-CNN:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/pot...ance/index.html

 

 

[reevesr1]

I'm currently watching MSNBC, or what it should be called currently "All Health Care All The Time." Not surprisingly, they are all for a public option in health care reform, as I am. But the public discourse in my country may be irreparably broken. When MSNBC talks of the debate, they talk of the facts on their side and the opinions of the other side. Obermann actually said "how do you get through to those people who don't think." In other words, those who are against health care reform don't think. It would be interesting to watch Fox just to get the other side. Problem is I can't watch Fox without throwing crap at the TV. But watching MSNBC is the same damn thing, just from a perspective I identify with more.

 

What is happening in my country, and I know I have said this before, is that the political parties have become more like competing religions. If the other side believes something they must be wrong, because they are wrong about everything. Makes finding a common ground almost impossible.

 

BTW, reading some of the political discourse here, you guys are on the same path, just not as far along yet. Or maybe you are.

 

It's all pointless. Guess I'll go fishing tomorrow.