I Challenge All Fishermen To Exercise Your

May 22, 2009

Please email ASAP!

Let's effect a regulation change. Email or Fax Jim Stelfox regarding the following issue!

Jim Stelfox

Senior Fisheries Biologist, Southern Rockies Area

Fish and Wildlife Division, Alberta Sustainable Resource Development

Box 1420, Room 228, 2nd floor, Provincial Building

Cochrane, Alberta, Canada T4C 1B4

Tel 403/851-2205, Fax 403/932-2158

Jim.Stelfox@gov.ab.ca

For many of us our first exposure to fishing as a kid was with our parents or grandparents. They took us camping or to their favorite local lake...set us up with everything we need to get hooked and started us on our path to being respectful and appreciative users of the great outdoors.

As our population exploded, our water bodies have become more and more loaded up with everyone "wanting their share" of the resource to the point that people need to catch and kill their limit in these put and take lakes before the next guy beside them catches "their trout".

What has resulted from this is that now we take our kids or ourselves out to K Country to relax and enjoy the great outdoors...share the love of everything "nature" with the next generation and be able to look into your son's or daughter's eyes as they see a trout rise and then the anticipation and excitement of seeing a trout bite. They the joyous laughter and loud expressions of amazement and thrill as they fight there first fish to the shallows. For some the next step is to kill the trout so that their child can eat their first fish and realize the hunting and gathering instinct we all have to some degree or in some instances explain how they enjoyed the experience so much that by releasing this fish back to the lake that they can come back again and relive the experience or allow another child this same thrill.

Unfortunately with these put and take lakes that the 5 fish per day limit in some fashion forces people to try and kill their limit. It makes this sport more about meat than about the thrill of the hunt. Now just to be clear I am not advocating catch and release but rather we all need to consider how to spread out the finite number of stocked trout in a lake to allow for people have a strong chance of seeing and hooking a trout versus coming out in June, July, August or September to find they were fished out long before. What a waste to see a child get bored and associate fishing with sitting doing nothing.

Therefore Allen Bill pond is going to be stocked again and for the first time this year since 2005 just before the outlet berm washed out in June 2005. Currently IMHO there is no long term fishery but rather a short window of a feeding frenzy. I would then respectfully request to all my fishing community to open up and email Jim Stelfox with the following proposal.

I recommend we take Allen Bill Pond and make it a special regulation lake to have a maximum daily limit of 1 trout per person. I also recommend we go baitless as my experience shows that with more fish in the lake a fly rod or spinning rod with a spinner, spoon or bobber and fly worked just great there. Baitless will allow for better survival of catch and release for those that desire that yet still leave a variety of other fishing methods available

Simple and straight forward. You take your family there...you want to eat fish...keep one each. You are not going to fill your freezer here but hey...do you really need to? At the same time...releasing trout means more fish and more future fun in one lake in which you can be more assured your trip to the mountains will not result in sadness for you and your kids due to no fish. Allen Bill Pond is also close to the city of Calgary such that the fishing pressure is that much more intense.

Please take the time to excercise your ability to direct managment recommendation in our fisheries! Please do not delay. The sooner you respond the sooner the regulation change can be implemented. There is a process and time is of the essence!

Cheers all.

Sun

cheeler · May 22, 2009

I'd like to see the 5 fish limit reduced for all ponds in high traffic areas such as Kananaskis, not just a pond here and there. And of course, a trophy lake closer to Calgary would be nice.

May 22, 2009

I'd like to see the 5 fish limit reduced for all ponds in high traffic areas such as Kananaskis, not just a pond here and there. And of course, a trophy lake closer to Calgary would be nice.

Together let's show that we can make this one difference. Then we can move on to other improvements. All it takes is 30 seconds to write the email of support and hit send to Jim Stelfox.

As this lake is just now returning to the stocking fold...it would be a great test to see if we can keep some fish in the water to chase during the summer!

Cheesr

Sun

firefrog · May 22, 2009

Hello

Some good points, Sundance. We can make our voice heard to affect changes. I also agree that going baitless is good - the sooner the youngsters learn this, the better. Let's face it, in the future, most places will be baitless.

I wish there was a better solution for the limits. A limit of 1 is an improvement, but considering the pressure at that place, there wouldn't be much difference between that and C & R. Either way, people will continue to fish for fun whether they keep their limit or not. I've seen the way many people handle fish. A lot of them would die anyways.

True, the 5-fish limit is carnage. Are kids going to learn anything positive from this? I know this issue has been flogged to death, but further discussion and efforts may produce some creative solutions.

Cheers

reevesr1 · May 22, 2009

True, the 5-fish limit is carnage. Are kids going to learn anything positive from this? I know this issue has been flogged to death, but further discussion and efforts may produce some creative solutions.

So I know I grew up in a different place. But what did I learn from keeping fish? That they were tasty. That I could fend for myself. Pride in helping feed my family. To LOVE fishing. Much later I learned that I loved to fish whether I kept them or not. I wouldn't trade my killing past for anything.

To say keeping fish is carnage? From put and take lakes? Ain't buying it.

I have never fished Allen Bill. I would love to have a C&R Lake nearby. But, I truly think there is a place for Put and Take fisheries as well.

Sun, this is a noble effort. But everyone, let's not get confused that C&R lakes are the only way to go. It isn't. Don't ever think that people who take fish home love this sport any less than you do. Some may, most don't.

cuttbow · May 23, 2009

So I know I grew up in a different place. But what did I learn from keeping fish? That they were tasty. That I could fend for myself. Pride in helping feed my family. To LOVE fishing. Much later I learned that I loved to fish whether I kept them or not. I wouldn't trade my killing past for anything.

To say keeping fish is carnage? From put and take lakes? Ain't buying it.

I have never fished Allen Bill. I would love to have a C&R Lake nearby. But, I truly think there is a place for Put and Take fisheries as well.

Sun, this is a noble effort. But everyone, let's not get confused that C&R lakes are the only way to go. It isn't. Don't ever think that people who take fish home love this sport any less than you do. Some may, most don't.

[/quote

Takes time guys,Fisheries take as long time to change. Have been working on a trophy pike lake in alberta before it gets wipped out. Takes alot of people and a lot of time.I agree with the P&T fisheries. But to get one set aside for those who would like a trophy instead of meat is like a blood bath. There are two types of people who fish Those who bonk and those who release for people to bonk later. Alberta has fewer lakes and more fisherman all types. BC cut down their limits years ago and looked at trophy fisheries as an economic growth. Alberta is still hooked on the idea of stockm and wack em. Look how long it took to get police changed. People didnt like it but have addopted it. Bullshead had the regs changed too and people still bonk the legal ones. Ya overstalking has contributed to the decrease in size as per food available. Until we get somebody on the govt, wether prov or fed to get into the saving albertas fish program we are doomed. Maybe a 2 tear license program those who want to meat hunt and those who want to trophy fish. Look at the alberta fishing guide draws to fish walley and pike.Populations are stable then the next year there is a draw. Same thing as the SA pike fisherie Few years ago you could keep 10, then the next year you could only keep 3 due to collapsed populations. Um somebodys missing the point here. Lets put some pressure on the fisheries. If it takes 500 people to loby for a change lets do it. Take the bull by the horns. Gee harps post says a lot too coming from a fisheries employee.

Tight lines

May 23, 2009

So I know I grew up in a different place. But what did I learn from keeping fish? That they were tasty. That I could fend for myself. Pride in helping feed my family. To LOVE fishing. Much later I learned that I loved to fish whether I kept them or not. I wouldn't trade my killing past for anything.

To say keeping fish is carnage? From put and take lakes? Ain't buying it.

I have never fished Allen Bill. I would love to have a C&R Lake nearby. But, I truly think there is a place for Put and Take fisheries as well.

Sun, this is a noble effort. But everyone, let's not get confused that C&R lakes are the only way to go. It isn't. Don't ever think that people who take fish home love this sport any less than you do. Some may, most don't.

Please guys let's keep my request clear and not go off topic. Allen Bill pond IS a put and take lake. It is not suitable for a pure catch and release lake. What I have seen rickr is that when going to Allen Bill or MacLean Creek Pond is that shortly after stocking mass numbers of people descend and literally clean the lakes out of fish within a few weeks to a month. What my proposal states is to reduce the limit from 5 to 1 to allow sustained HARVEST over a longer period of time...hopefully all summer. That way there is a place to catch fish in that area even a month after stocking. What I propose is a balance. Catch and release guys and catch and release all they want. The fish stay in the lake..they can then catch them again. The meat fishermen can have 1 feed of trout to enjoy the taste...maybe over the barbeque or maybe at home...either way it is their option.

So all I am asking for you the fishermen is to request this change to F&W and stretch this put and take fishery out over a longer period of time. Then whether you show up in May, June, July, August, September, October (regulations allowing) you still have a chance of catching a nice little trout...whether you are a kid or an adult.

If NOBODY emails and we can't get the emails...all we need are emails here folks...the limit for this lake stays at 5 and there are very few fish left come July...not much of a fishery. Please let's make it better and email your support to drop the limit to 1.

Let's surprise ourselves and lobby for a small change with great consequences.

Cheers

Sun

BBBrownie · May 23, 2009

I havent fished Allen Bill, but am somewhat familiar with the issue as it is common. The problem I have is this: I would much prefer seeing the "meat fishermen" taking their dinner from a put and take fishery than purchasing farmed salmon, keeping wild natives, etc. Put and take is a niche, it is akin to hunting and take it or leave it, it is a common theme for many in Western Canada. Those who desire a fish dinner without taking away from the dwindling NATIVE walleye, pike, cutts, bulls in Alberta, those who don't enjoy eating downstream of Calgary, and those who don't enjoy decimating the west coast salmon and steelhead runs still have to eat, and often want fish. In my opinion put and take hatchery fish are an attactive and viable alternative to these environmentally unsustainable options. I think the issue goes beyond wanting to continue the tradition. Take the kids over to the bow or even down to the bullshead if stillwater is your thing. Those who are fishing for "meat" will go elsewhere with a limit of one, or they will not comply in many cases because in many cases it will not be worth the opportunity cost of driving to allen bill for one fish. You need to remember that not everyone views this as a sport as most of us do. instead, they will head to the market and we all know the score. I often work in conjunction with Alberta First Nations, many of them fish with nets instead of rods on lakes, they see absolutely no problem with this as it is their tradition. The fisheries that they net are (although certainly weren't always) well managed by very competent provincial fisheries managers. I could go into much greater depth on this issue but don't really think it is necessary. Our fisheries managers (especially Jim Stelfox and his crew) have done a spectacular job of managing one of the toughest areas in Canada to manage, due to the high number of anglers, diverse values and demands of these anglers, and a relatively small number of watercourses/waterbodies. Also, put and take we may each kill a fish on a good day of c&R due to hooking mortality, especially when you add bait into the equation (very high hook mortality). I know you don't want bait used there, but there is a community of anglers who feel differently and demand this, as evident in the one month cleaning out of the pond. That is just my perspective, good on ya for stickin to your cause but I have to respectfully disagree.

bhurt · May 23, 2009

As I see it I would rather have a place for the people that want to keep fish then fishing illiegally and killing off our native fish.

I remeber one day I was at work and my boss asked me where he could take his family (he was a spin caster) to go fishin and catch a couple of fish and then have a family bar-b-q. Places like Allen Bill and McClean Creek Pound are ideal places as they are so close to camp grounds and deflects them from removing fish from the rivers.

With Poilce Outpost and Bullshead, I belive these are good places for trophy lakes but we need to also look at the flip side of the coin too. Not everyone is a C&R angler and they need a place to go to so we can protect our native fish, it might cost more money to keep these places stocked but in my opion that is a much better solution then giving them no place or places where it is not really worth the time to go to, thus some people out there might say screw the rules I'll fish whereever and keep whatever I want.

With places that have a 5 limit keep (these places of course would be stocked fish) regardless of size might be the opening to allow a change in regulations in other rivers, streams, creeks, etc.. to be total C&R with stiffer pelanties for breaking those rules as there would designated places they could go for 100% keep (with of course a catch limit)

Do these pounds get cleared out in a month or so, sure but better there where they are a stocked fish then raiding the native fish in their native waters.

My mom's side of the family have lived in Southern Alberta for many generations and as a kid growing up visiting my grandparents, it was never about the experince of catching a fish, but what was for dinner that night, saying that it might not be that way for everyone but it was diffently that way for my family.

We need to find a soultion to accomadate both sides and not just to make it better for one group, remeber regardless to weather it is a keep place or a C&R we must all veiw everyones opion and make changes that best suits EVERYONE.

May 24, 2009

bhurt...not sure if you are saying you are fore or against? BBBrownie...do you think after the meat fishermen fishes out Allen Bill...goes back in June, July or August to find no fish does not then go elsewhere?

I think the picture that you need to have is sustainable harvest over a period of time. Allowing a limit that is no different than just dispersing trout directly from the stocking truck to peoples coolers makes no sense.

People going out camping can catch and kill their limit and have a feed. They won't be taking extra home to freezer burn.

There are a number of stocked lakes. Why not try this and see if it makes for a better over all sport fishing with a compromise that benefits ALL anglers?

Just a thought.

Anyways people... keep emailing Jim. I believe he sees a definite value in such a fishery but can not implement without angler support. Let's show our support and try and improve the fishery together!

Cheers

Sun

timjorourke · May 24, 2009

I was out at Allen Bill yesterday helping Jim recover and relocate the native fish to the Elbow River. Tons of fun and very interesting. Jim could not remember the number of fish they were going to stock there off the top of his head but he did say that they would be stocking it on two separate occasions over the summer.

I believe this multiple socking method is to sustain the fishery over a longer period. Perhaps we should ask him to explain why they use a 5 fish limit and gain some more understanding of their fish management practices before we lobby for change?

Sundance, with that being said I have to say that I admire your passion for teaching the younger generation about our favorite past time. You make some very valid points!

adc · May 24, 2009

I think if we want to have more Quality Fisheries we need to address at the same time the "needs" or as some call them "rights" of others to kill some fish in put and take fisheries..........Why not overstock a few and up the limit to 10 fish??..........That will move the meat fishermen to fewer places, it will allow kids to catch and kill some fish and it will take pressure off some other waters.......I don't know Allen Bill Pond but I don't think reducing the limit there will go down with folks very well........(I have a bit of experience with Police )..........Overstocking might be a better solution.......

Hawgstoppah · May 24, 2009

Here's an idea

Make the minimum size limit on all alberta lakes higher. instead of "5 trout any size", how about "5 trout, none of which may be less than 30cm"?

bigbrooktrout · May 24, 2009

Excessive stocking does not work to build sustainable a fishery. But the real reason the alberta government stocks these ponds and lakes is to give people who really don't have alot of exposure to the outdoors access to these areas for simple enjoyment.

These lakes are overstocked to allow anglers with little experience the opportunity to catch fish. These lakes cannot sustain the large numbers of fish dumped into these small ecosystems.

I think i would rather these guys go to these lakes instead of the bow or other local river systems.

BBBrownie · May 25, 2009

Sundance, I am familiar with sustainable harvest theory. The way I see this is not in any way related to sustainable harvest. What I was trying to say is that if the pond is fished out in a short time period it is obviously filling a demand. I fully realize that these fish are going from the hatchery truck to a frying pan. Is there really a problem with that? I think it was the planned destination, hopefully they have time to put on a couple hundred grams before they hit the pan or it may make a meager meal. I think that those that like to catch a limit which is high enough to provide a dinner for their family need a place to fulfill this hunter/gatherer instinct. I, myself do not generally partake in stocked rainbow ponds, but I know there are many who do, and that is fishing to them. These hatchery rainbows are essentially a farmed resource, much like cattle or chickens, plus they take a bit of pressure off some of the native fisheries. I really see no harm in this. This is one of relatively few local sustenance fisheries, whereas much of the calgary area is managed as high quality sport fisheries. The fact that Allen Bill is fished out in a couple months suggests to me that their is actually more demand than supply for this type of resource. I don't believe that management has any incentive to change the current situation at Allen Bill, as there is obvious support for it. I mean, really, as a MOSTLY (I may eat the odd sustainably harvested fish) catch and release angler, I have many of the worlds best trout streams outside my back door. I think there is a point where you realize that the other guys need a spot to do their thing as well. I'd much rather see the food fishery pressure on allen bill than on our beloved rivers. I don't believe that there is a niche large enough to manage every dugout, oxbow and ponds as a trophy fishery. Again, just my opinion, it is nice to have some dialogue and think a bit about what we actually have or dont have here.

robert · May 25, 2009

Sundance, I am familiar with sustainable harvest theory. The way I see this is not in any way related to sustainable harvest. What I was trying to say is that if the pond is fished out in a short time period it is obviously filling a demand. I fully realize that these fish are going from the hatchery truck to a frying pan. Is there really a problem with that? I think it was the planned destination, hopefully they have time to put on a couple hundred grams before they hit the pan or it may make a meager meal. I think that those that like to catch a limit which is high enough to provide a dinner for their family need a place to fulfill this hunter/gatherer instinct. I, myself do not generally partake in stocked rainbow ponds, but I know there are many who do, and that is fishing to them. These hatchery rainbows are essentially a farmed resource, much like cattle or chickens, plus they take a bit of pressure off some of the native fisheries. I really see no harm in this. This is one of relatively few local sustenance fisheries, whereas much of the calgary area is managed as high quality sport fisheries. The fact that Allen Bill is fished out in a couple months suggests to me that their is actually more demand than supply for this type of resource. I don't believe that management has any incentive to change the current situation at Allen Bill, as there is obvious support for it. I mean, really, as a MOSTLY (I may eat the odd sustainably harvested fish) catch and release angler, I have many of the worlds best trout streams outside my back door. I think there is a point where you realize that the other guys need a spot to do their thing as well. I'd much rather see the food fishery pressure on allen bill than on our beloved rivers. I don't believe that there is a niche large enough to manage every dugout, oxbow and ponds as a trophy fishery. Again, just my opinion, it is nice to have some dialogue and think a bit about what we actually have or dont have here.

I'm in agreement with alot of what you're saying here but i'm going to add that what happens at stock ponds is just delaying the inevitable. We should be looking at what happens at these stocked ponds as a sign/symptom of what is happening at the natural lakes and rivers. Yes i agree that it's a source for meat fishers, but it's also shows the real problems in the fisheries today.

People will sit with coolers and multiple rods and take what they can, it's really sad. I enjoy the stocked ponds once in a while, great for a quick fix when i can't get out anywhere else but i'm strictly catch and release - everything goes back in the water. I've had people get so mad that i've thrown large fish back, should have given it to them. Yeah, they get fished out in no time and there are some that keep everything they catch - leaves me wondering what a person is going to do with a 4" stocker.

If people would moderate themselves, then there would be no need for regualtions and laws to govern us.

ham · May 25, 2009

I stopped by allen bill today while i was out driving. They have the nice orange flourescent signs up saying no fishing untill june 15 which stand out but the thing that caught my mind was the whole parking lot was full of people, the banks were loaded with people wandering around. Just wait untill all these peoples have fishing rods in their hands and try to get their 5 fish limit tossing bait and sitting there, the fish wont last long. that 5 limit + bait allowed is a joke not a good idea in my mind.

SNAPFisher · May 25, 2009

I stopped by allen bill today while i was out driving. They have the nice orange flourescent signs up saying no fishing untill june 15 which stand out but the thing that caught my mind was the whole parking lot was full of people, the banks were loaded with people wandering around. Just wait untill all these peoples have fishing rods in their hands and try to get their 5 fish limit tossing bait and sitting there, the fish wont last long. that 5 limit + bait allowed is a joke not a good idea in my mind.

Guilty until proven innocent hey? I seriously doubt all the people there are wanting to wet a line. Nothing wrong with enjoying a day by the lake or pond.

I also do not see anything wrong with put and take fisheries. Lots of ponds up here around Edmonton and area and they do get fished a lot. I don't know about cleaned out or not but I imagine the population takes a dive. That is just fine in my books for stocked ponds.

I do not know Allen Bill pond at all, never been there. Sundance, if your thinking it has trophy trout characterics and potential, that I get. Muir Lake is a great example and success of a reduced limit to produce a trophy lake. It is great to have the mix. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more trophy limit lakes mixed in with the 5 limit stocked ones. Otherwise, is there a shortage of stocked ponds in the Calgary area? How about a half-way solution of 2 or 3 keep limit rather than 5. I seriously doubt one stocked trout is going to feed a family. There must a better middle ground.

My .2 cents.

AndyW · May 25, 2009

The whole idea here is a balance, and the balance is defitately for the meat fisherman. There are enough places to go with kids and bait to catch fish around Calgary. Why is the focus is on taking a youngster, or new fishermen out to a place where you are going to use bait and kill whatever you catch? A new person/youngster to fishing would have just as much fun at a lake as bullshead where you will release fish, but the option is there to kill one if it is large enough. And you don't have to flyfish either. A fly under a bobber will work just as good. The focus should be on cathing alot of fish, and maybe killing one or two, but now the focus is on hustling to a newly stocked lake and getting your share, killing five before the lake is cleaned out. Nothing wrong with put and take, but more emphasis has to be on take less. How is it going to be around Calgary when there is 2million living here? On the lakes near calgary the limit should be reduced, simply not enough water within an hour to keep this sustainable.

And speaking of balance what about our Southern resevoirs? With the current size requirements on Pike it ensures that the old hens get bonked. I fish down south alot and maybe 1 guy out of 20 or so that I talk to will release the big pike, the rest get taken out. Yes the limit has been reduced, but with more people fishing (or so it seems the past few years) there is still more pressure on the fish that are doing the recruitment, the big females. We need a minimum of a couple of the southern resevoirs where a slot size is put in for pike, and any pike bigger than 28" (females) are released.

May 25, 2009

Sundance, I am familiar with sustainable harvest theory. The way I see this is not in any way related to sustainable harvest. What I was trying to say is that if the pond is fished out in a short time period it is obviously filling a demand. I fully realize that these fish are going from the hatchery truck to a frying pan. Is there really a problem with that? I think it was the planned destination, hopefully they have time to put on a couple hundred grams before they hit the pan or it may make a meager meal. I think that those that like to catch a limit which is high enough to provide a dinner for their family need a place to fulfill this hunter/gatherer instinct. I, myself do not generally partake in stocked rainbow ponds, but I know there are many who do, and that is fishing to them. These hatchery rainbows are essentially a farmed resource, much like cattle or chickens, plus they take a bit of pressure off some of the native fisheries. I really see no harm in this. This is one of relatively few local sustenance fisheries, whereas much of the calgary area is managed as high quality sport fisheries. The fact that Allen Bill is fished out in a couple months suggests to me that their is actually more demand than supply for this type of resource. I don't believe that management has any incentive to change the current situation at Allen Bill, as there is obvious support for it. I mean, really, as a MOSTLY (I may eat the odd sustainably harvested fish) catch and release angler, I have many of the worlds best trout streams outside my back door. I think there is a point where you realize that the other guys need a spot to do their thing as well. I'd much rather see the food fishery pressure on allen bill than on our beloved rivers. I don't believe that there is a niche large enough to manage every dugout, oxbow and ponds as a trophy fishery. Again, just my opinion, it is nice to have some dialogue and think a bit about what we actually have or dont have here.

The demand is free fish. Any time you offer people and chance to slaughter fish to fill a freezer a niche of fishermen will take full advantage of that. I have seen that mentality first hand. The desire is in the meat and not the fishing experience. Greed as a defining word comes to mind.

The problem with that is when you have a large portion of the provincial fisheries budget going into stocking trucks to feed a select few. Sustainable harvest theory is really the only practical solution when dealing with a finite budget. Like some people wish to kill everything they catch...others prefer to kill nothing. Balance is key and throwing more resources at a put and take fishery versus enforcement, habitat protection etc. is not always the best way to go. If you feel throwing more money at the problem...when does the cash flow stop? For every free handout you will have 5 hands out and people running to get their hand in also. How many people on this board would be willing to pay an additional $50 to $100 year on a licence for the sole purpose of stocking more trout in put and take lakes for other people to kill and eat?

We have to make the fishermen also responsible for spreading out the resource including a put and take fishery. As more and more people go fishing we need people to be less greedy. Fisheries management does have the interest but the political motivation comes from us sending in emails.

Your desire to have meat fishermen away from your rivers is a great premise but to have that you need a lake where they can catch fish during the summer and fall.

Ultimately in order to get more money in the system we need more lobbying done successfully by fishermen. Let's start here and make one change to one lake within a very short drive of Calgary. This thought has morphed to a much broader issue and therefore I would like to rein it in to just this point.

Currently we do not have a good lake close to Calgary that people can go and catch a fish and eat one if they like during the summer and fall. Let's make Allen Bill that lake. It can't hurt...as it gets fished out quickly as it stands after stocking.

May 25, 2009

Guilty until proven innocent hey? I seriously doubt all the people there are wanting to wet a line. Nothing wrong with enjoying a day by the lake or pond.

I also do not see anything wrong with put and take fisheries. Lots of ponds up here around Edmonton and area and they do get fished a lot. I don't know about cleaned out or not but I imagine the population takes a dive. That is just fine in my books for stocked ponds.

I do not know Allen Bill pond at all, never been there. Sundance, if your thinking it has trophy trout characterics and potential, that I get. Muir Lake is a great example and success of a reduced limit to produce a trophy lake. It is great to have the mix. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more trophy limit lakes mixed in with the 5 limit stocked ones. Otherwise, is there a shortage of stocked ponds in the Calgary area? How about a half-way solution of 2 or 3 keep limit rather than 5. I seriously doubt one stocked trout is going to feed a family. There must a better middle ground.

My .2 cents.

Put and take fisheries are a required product of our expectations and management. Nothing is wrong sitting and fishing by a stocked pond. When the pond is cleaned out it becomes a waste of water. Why not let them last a little longer in at least a few lakes? Sure clean out some by mid June...but then do people stop fishing? Do they go to a native river or lake to kill fish? People seem at odds with asking for 1 lake that has a reduce limit to keep fish there. This is not a trophy lake...not 1 over 20 inches but rather a final refuge for a fisherman that wants to catch a fish still in July or August or September. The worst case scenario is that if nobody likes this after it is tried that after a couple years they up the limit back to 5. My gut tells me that with this regulation you will have a ton of fishermen and kids out having a great time by the pond!

Let's get er done folks!

May 25, 2009

My whole point here is to influence fisheries management to the benefit of the majority of anglers and not argue for the sake of arguing. Any positive change is better than no change at all.

How about make the change to the same as Mount Laurette ponds? Allow 2 trout limit and maintain current bait rules. Therefore people can catch more and the harvest is prolonged allowing more recreational value.

I think this would be a great compromise.

I doubt people can effectively complain about a 2 fish limit with their kids considering that their kids will have a much better chance of catching something.

Any thoughts?

Please email Jim with your thoughts and comments and let's get some changes happening!

Cheers

Sun

robert · May 25, 2009

Expectation and mentality - key words here... let's put a rediculous spin on this and look at it a different way...?

what if we were to stock a field with 10,000 bears, fence them in and let people have a free for all? Yes, there would be people that would take advantage of it, we all know it... But that would definitely make people stand up and take notice...

Why do people have the expectation of free fish at all? Is it a right to pick up a fishing rod and catch fish to eat? No, it's a priveledge but there are those that do it. How about some education on why not to do it?

The analogy was made of raising livestock for human consumption... yep, all fine and dandy but the beef, pork and fish in my freezer ain't free and it ain't cheap... maybe if people had to pay for the right to keep some of these trout in lakes, then they would think better of it.

BRH · May 25, 2009

Pothole-mania ... the fisheries phenomenon that took the prairie provinces by storm! A concept deemed to be the salvation for the casual fisherman which has and continues to capture the attention of Alberta Fisheries. The entire program was and is based on a put and take philosophy where the quality of the experience was supposed to be elevated for the novice and the young. And now we're spending "ink" on debating who or how much the 'take' should extend to? I, for one, simply don't get it.

Now maybe I have no place in this discussion ... I have not killed a fish on purpose for over 30 years, seldom wander the shores of a put and take fishery and have no interest in wasting my time chucking a fly to fingerlings that, if not taken by the hook, with suffocate under the ice. To this type of a scenario I'd suggest that if you're keen on this kind of experience then you're gonna have competition from the uneducated masses.

And where does the concept of sustainable fisheries fit into this? Put and take and sustainable (maintainable) fisheries are polar opposites. The "Put" part ... a fininte number of fish are intoduced to the pond. The "Take" part ... fish will be taken from the pond reducing the number of fish making it neither sustainable nor maintainable.

Setting the limits so as to increase the distribution of the kills on such a pond is a matter of Angler Management not Fisheries Management, a doctrine far too prevelant in Alberta's Fisheries Division today. Due to budgetary restraints and political indifference, Alberta's Fisheries Division doesn't manage the province's fisheries but rather the anglers utilizing the resource. "Alberta Fisheries Management" would be more aptly named "Alberta Angler Management". The focus of this discussion, putting political pressure to have regulations changed, is testiment to that. If Alberta Fisheries Management actually managed fisheries, regulations would reflect fisheries management principals for sustainable (maintainable) populations based on research and studies instead of being based on political pressures by one interest group or another. Far more energies would be expended on the fisheries that can be sustained and maintained than on the Put and Take pot holes dotting the province.

Yes there is demand for P&T fisheries in the province just as there is demand for C&R fisheries. But let's not confuse P&T fisheries with sustainable fisheries.

May 26, 2009

Pothole-mania ... the fisheries phenomenon that took the prairie provinces by storm! A concept deemed to be the salvation for the casual fisherman which has and continues to capture the attention of Alberta Fisheries. The entire program was and is based on a put and take philosophy where the quality of the experience was supposed to be elevated for the novice and the young. And now we're spending "ink" on debating who or how much the 'take' should extend to? I, for one, simply don't get it.

Now maybe I have no place in this discussion ... I have not killed a fish on purpose for over 30 years, seldom wander the shores of a put and take fishery and have no interest in wasting my time chucking a fly to fingerlings that, if not taken by the hook, with suffocate under the ice. To this type of a scenario I'd suggest that if you're keen on this kind of experience then you're gonna have competition from the uneducated masses.

And where does the concept of sustainable fisheries fit into this? Put and take and sustainable (maintainable) fisheries are polar opposites. The "Put" part ... a fininte number of fish are intoduced to the pond. The "Take" part ... fish will be taken from the pond reducing the number of fish making it neither sustainable nor maintainable.

Setting the limits so as to increase the distribution of the kills on such a pond is a matter of Angler Management not Fisheries Management, a doctrine far too prevelant in Alberta's Fisheries Division today. Due to budgetary restraints and political indifference, Alberta's Fisheries Division doesn't manage the province's fisheries but rather the anglers utilizing the resource. "Alberta Fisheries Management" would be more aptly named "Alberta Angler Management". The focus of this discussion, putting political pressure to have regulations changed, is testiment to that. If Alberta Fisheries Management actually managed fisheries, regulations would reflect fisheries management principals for sustainable (maintainable) populations based on research and studies instead of being based on political pressures by one interest group or another. Far more energies would be expended on the fisheries that can be sustained and maintained than on the Put and Take pot holes dotting the province.

Yes there is demand for P&T fisheries in the province just as there is demand for C&R fisheries. But let's not confuse P&T fisheries with sustainable fisheries.

There are different levels or types of put and take fisheries. Bullshead for example is just a put and take fishery with a size restriction. Chain Lakes is a large put and take fishery with over stocking issues. For all intensive purposes we have what we get but we can make the best of it.

I see nothing wrong with balance and creating a more prolonged harvest put and take fishery that will carry a larger number of man hours of fishing pressure before being fished out.

The best thing we can do in this general area of Calgary is to create better and more effective fisheries that cover certain niches like put and takes.

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