Pontoon Vs. Float Tube

[cdock]

I'm sure this has been asked before but here I go again.

 

I have a float tube and plan to use it for lakes. I am also considering a pontoon boat for streams and lakes. Any suggestions on a particular model? Anything to stay away from? I've been considerind the Outcast FishCat Streamer XL.

[BlueNorther]

I have the Streamer XL,this is my 3rd season with it and I like it.Didn't care for the mesh cargo holder on the back so I had a freind make an aluminum deck for it.Now my cooler stays out of the water.

 

I fished for years out of one of the original Caddis U boats but my back couldn't take it any more.What I like about the toon is only my legs from mid calf down are in the water,so I can fish with hip waders or in warmer lakes just shorts and a pair of sneakers and fins.The outer shell on the Streamer is rated good for abrasion resistance from rocks and the pontoons are 8 feet long which I've heard is the minimum if you want to float rivers safely.

 

Also keep in mind you still by law have to have a PFD and a whistle while on the water.I got a warning two years ago for that on the K Lakes.

[Weedy1]

Here's my standard answer. This is a collection of emails I received from a fellow in BC. I hope it helps.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Yeah, I did a mountain of searching prior to dropping my hard earned cash down. I ended up with an Outcast Pac 9000 after all my efforts.(Pictured in the attachment - it's maiden voyage) Initially, I was really keen on the Scadden, but I actually ended up talking to one of the main guys down in Ogden Utah at their manufacturing facility. He ended up talking me out of the particular model I was interested in - turned out they had experienced a few minor problems with it, sales were really slow on it, so they were thinking seriously of discontinuing it. Now, I say "it" because do you think for the life of me I can recall exactly which one it was?!! I've gone back to their site to see if anything twigs my memory, and no luck. ( I want to say the delaware or something like that, but I'm not 100% certain about that,....sorry)

 

The reason North Fork stuff appealed to me was simple - they were (at the time) the only guys putting out boats with a casting platform on a smaller boat. That and the fact that Dave Scadden was one of the initial designers for Outcast years back. The specs on their boats were as good as, or better than most every other manufacturer. Lifetime warranty on select models didn't hurt their cause any either. Having come a few years down the road, you can now find casting platforms as standard equipment on a lot of Outcasts (and others) products.

 

Looking back over what I've learned both shopping for, as well as having used a pontoon now, if I had any advice to give it would be this:

 

Don't buy cheap. If you're a "serious" fisherman, and intend on spending a lot of time in your craft, quality will more than reward you back.

 

Purchase something made in North America - Warranty work for stuff made on this side of the Pacific is a piece of cake. If it was made in China, I wish you the best of luck getting service.

 

A 5 year warranty is good, a 10 year warranty is great, and if you can find it...a lifetime warranty is stupendous. If it has a 1 year warranty, you might want to consider saving a few more $$$ and hold off for something in the 5 year warranty zone.

 

Air chambers/cells/bladders - Vinyl=good, urethane=better. Seams - sewn=good, thermal welded=better. Frame material - powder coated steel=alright, stainless steel = better, aluminum = best.

 

There's your 3 main areas of concern - frame, air cells, and if you have issues with either of those, the warranty. Really, there's nothing else to a boat. These are the 3 main points to compare when shopping for one. Period. The length, layout, style, extra components and color will simply be determined by where you fish, what you fish for, what you need, and what you like. It's too damn easy to get buried under all the options, sizes, and other useless ways to drain your bank account, when all you need to focus on are those first three things - Frame, Air Cells, Warranty. Done.

 

So back to why I ended up in an Outcast when I had my heart set on something from North Fork........After speaking with the rep from North Fork, I realized that the model that I originally wanted probably wasn't going to be around for much longer and warranty might be an issue, perhaps I had better start looking at other options. At the time, he couldn't tell me what was going to be replacing it, nor was next years product listings available to me yet, so I was basically forced to look elsewhere as there wasn't anything else within the North Fork line that met my needs. Enter the Outcast line up......and the fact that there was a deal to be hard at the local shop on what was soon to be my new boat. It had everything I wanted / needed, except for the casting platform. A few weeks down the road, I was out on the water, awkwardly splashing around in my new toy...(this is sure different than the old belly boat! ) As it turns out, Outcast now produces several boats with casting platforms. Not mine mind you, but that's not going to stop me from making my own!!!

 

Each company has its own unique features in some way shape or form - they have to in order to stay competitive, right? Looking back, to me it seems like Mr. Dave Scadden and North Fork Outdoors are on the leading edge of actually producing new ideas. Everyone else has followed in his footsteps with regards to the casting platforms. The folks at Outcast are doing their damnedest to make their products affordable while at the same time, pack as many little extras onto the boat as possible. Watching the pricing in catalogues and features available over the past few years, prices are slowly dropping, while accessories are borderline mind boggling at this point. I'm not trying to sell you on North Fork or Outcast....there's other outfits out there as well, it's just when I started poking around, I kept coming back to these two as a result of quality, available warranties, accessories, as well as general recommendations. However, do go and look at other manufacturers outside of these two to see what else is available to you.

 

As far as how do I like what I ended up with? I love it! I spent a lot of time in my old belly boat, and the pontoon is worlds away from a belly boat. I'm still adjusting set up / layout of various accessories on it, but I'm really happy I've got what I've got. I'm not upset or disappointed about not having been able to get the North Fork one I originally wanted. I never see many Scadden boats out on the water, but I also have never heard anything bad about them, I think they're just bigger in the states than they are up here.

 

So, Have I thoroughly confused you, or has any of this helped? If you have any other questions, drop me a line any time - I'll do my best to help you out.

 

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Some food for thought - the Panther at Cabelas is the same thing as the Cougar,...just a "special edition" released to Cabelas only for whatever reason.(marketing I suspect) The only difference between the Panther and Cougar are: Available colors, Length,(as you mentioned already), Load capacity,(Cougar= 375lbs, Panther= 400 lbs), and the frame...the Panther is a 7 piece, while the Cougar is a 10 piece...both are aluminum. Pricing through Troutwater Supplies (TWS) for the Cougar is still cheaper than Cabelas is listing the Panther at.

 

If the idea of a casting platform appeals to you, check out the new 2006 Outcast Pac series - they make casting decks for the Pac 1000, 1100HD, as well as the 1200. Granted those are the larger sized boats at 10, 11, and 12 feet respectively, but my thinking is this: if you look at the catalogue, you'll get a basic idea just from the pictures of the casting platforms I just mentioned,(they're in the back of the book with all the other accessories), and they look pretty simple to manufacture oneself.....or at the very least do what I plan to do, and take the frame measurements and those pictures into a local fabricator, and have them do one up. Realistically, I don't foresee my custom version costing any more than one of the pre-fabbed Outcast ones. Page 9 in the new catalogue shows a guy standing on a deck on a 1100HD which has a bit of a unique frame to it, but even with a standard 2 chambered pontoon,...it looks stable enough to me. Ideally, I'd like to get some photographs of one, or even see one first hand just so I'm certain I'm re-creating it properly......don't want to puncture the bladders thanks anyways!

 

Be aware that at the beginning of each year, Outcast makes available to a few select retailers a list of demo boats, and "flawed" boats. By flawed, I'm talking about perhaps a slight variance in the color of the two air cells.....the batch was just starting, and the tint was "off" just a wee bit or something. My fishing' buddy bought a "flawed" Pac 800 or 900 through TWS here in Kelowna and saved some good $$$. Unfortunately, these things go like you wouldn't believe. No sooner does Nick get the list in his hand, and he's on the phone only to find half of the stuff is already gone. So far as the "flaw" with my buddy’s boat goes........if someone hadn't have said something, you'd never have known,. so it can certainly be subtle.

 

There's a new entry level quad style boat by Outcast called the "Discovery Oncilla". I sat in it at TWS, and personally wasn't impressed. Seems too short, not to mention un-stable front to back, but to each their own I guess. It's just not something I would consider putting on the list of options, but look at it so you know what it is. Staying with shorter boats, the Discovery 8 has an aluminum frame, which is something new for 2006. That might be worth considering, but it only has a 5 year warranty, as the air cells are vinyl as opposed to urethane.

 

Outcasts was also my second pick to North Fork Outdoors, but have a look at others as well to get a feel for price and quality comparison sake.

 

http://waterskeeter.com/ has 3 single person boats that have casting platforms.

 

http://www.waterotter.net/BOATS.HTM doesn't have casting platforms, but most folks don't even know they exist, never mind the lack of bladders....they just have one giant air cell, no bladder inside it!

 

http://www.bucksbags.com/cm_cat.asp?id=16 offers the ability to purchase an add on casting deck to boats over 9 feet in length

 

http://www.outcastboats.com/outcastboats/index.htm ........like you haven't seen this already, but in the off chance you haven't, here it is.

 

http://www.northforkoutdoors.com/index.html takes you to North Fork Outdoors (Again, you probably already have this one.)

 

http://www.northforkoutdoors.com/index.html offer pretty basic entry level stuff.

 

http://www.outdoorsportz.com/PDPBOOOO1002.html shows that if you look hard enough, the Delaware West is still available if you wanted it.

 

So yeah, Outcast still gets my vote seeing as NFO only has the 11 foot model, which seems more like a yacht than a pontoon for stillwater lakes. If you're ever going to be in this neck of the woods and want to give mine a whirl, drop me a line and I'll take you out to some local productive waters if you like, so you can see what the Pac 9000 is like. ( oh-,....and catch a few fish while we're at it!)

 

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Maneuverability using fins is just fine. I use my oars maybe 10% of the time. With a pontoon, your body is only in the water to mid way up your shins - depending on how long your legs are, you may only get your ankles wet! You can kick forever because there's next to nothing for drag in the water to slow you down....no more lower body hanging into the water acting like a submerged anchor creating noticeable drag. If you had a standard belly boat prior to the Fish Cat 4, you would have noticed a difference in the reduction of drag just by taking that step up.........imagine what it's going to be like getting the remaining body parts up and out of the water! (Ankles don't tend to create a whole lot of drag and resistance)

 

Spending an entire day on the water using just your fins won't be an issue. The oars are for getting from "A" to "B" faster, or for use on rivers. You'll go faster and use less effort in a pontoon with fins, compared to a belly boat or even the Fish Cat 4 using fins - the lack of drag is what makes all the difference....there's such little resistance. You'll know what I'm talking about once you experience it for yourself.

 

With regards to the casting platform being fixed in place, I'm sure they have made an allowance to do just that - secure it so it can't slip off or something. However, who says it absolutely must be secured at all times?? For stillwater applications, I don't think an un-secured plate will be a problem. However, if I were to be shooting down rapids on a river, then yeah, I think I'd want to strap that sucker down as tight as I could get it, and in which case, I figure I won't be using fins against white water anyways. When I first looked at the set up Scadden had come up with, the pictures I found showed that as you rolled the lean bar backwards to the rear of the boat, it simultaneously slid the casting platform backwards beneath the seat - the two were connected to work together. Outcast offers no leaning bar that I can see, so you need only worry about dealing with one moving part - the plate. This is the Scadden plate: http://www.northforkoutdoors.com/Images/standing-plat!

formalt.jpg It kinda' gives you an idea as to how they connect it to the frame. Lets forget about the fact that this particular plate is made to slide back and forth, and concentrate on how it stays put on the frame......basically, there's some inverted "u" shaped brackets on either side that drop down over the side rails of the pontoon frame, right? Gravity takes care of the rest. If the plate was made long enough,(I'm talking front to back, not side to side), it could be designed and made to fit snugly between the rails of the seat support, and the portion of frame that leads upwards to the oar support area.......you now have a plate held in place and prevented from moving forwards and backwards by two already existing frame components. Drop it in place, stand and fish. Pull it out,(spin around and secure it to your rear cargo deck), drop legs into water, kick, find new spot to fish, drop plate back into position. Done. Granted Scaddens moving plate is a superior idea..!

..no having to pull the plate every time you wanted to kick around. Configuring a similar set up for the Outcast is just going to involve a bit more thought and time, but I think it can be done. Maybe once I get my wheel dealt with, I'll move on to mimicking the sliding platform.

 

 

10 feet for length isn't as bad as you would think - the Pac 9000 I have is that length despite the fact all their books and literature state that it's a 9 foot craft. It ends up measuring 9 foot 8 inches or something ridiculous like that, so to simplify, I think they just call it a 9 foot. I'm happy with what I've got....but it's going to depend on your personal applications as to what you'll need. If you plan on doing long river trips and you'll need to take more gear, then you're going to want a longer boat, as the bigger they are, the more weight they carry. having said that, shorter isn't always better - I recall watching a guy out on a small lake we visited one day, and he was a guy with a good sized frame on him, big boned shall we say, and he was in a 7 foot pontoon boat. Those poor air cells were damn near 50% submerged!! The guy needed a larger boat in order to support the weight...the 7 footer just wasn't cutting it. So, depending on your personal body weight, and !

intended applications so far as type(s) of waters you want to fish, you do need to pay attention to weight or load capacities on whatever you're considering purchasing. As far as the craft being cumbersome - no, it's not. You need to be aware that it is certainly bigger than a Fish Cat 4, but that's obvious, right? There are adjustments to be made once you get one - you're now in something longer, and wider, and higher,( and better, and a lot more fun too, and you stay warmer and drier to boot!!!) It took me about 5 or 6 trips before I was accustomed to my new boat and the way it handled. Arranging accessories is another whole ball of wax to be dealt with on an on going basis.

[SanJuanWorm]

I have the fishcat streamer XL. It meets my expectations as a Toon boat. The mesh sucks and I wish i had an aluminum plate.

[Guest rusty]

My advice:

 

GO OUTCAST, and at that, get a PAC. If you have a tube already, get an 8' boat with an aluminum frame and an anchor system.

 

Most of my buddies are in Outcasts and everyone adores them. The cheaper boats just don't compare. The offshore models from Outcast (FishCat) are OK, but I have a FC8 and it's been nothing but headaches.

[cdock]

I found some last year models of the Outcast Discovery 8. Aluminum frame, welded seams, 600/1200PVC, aluminum cooler deck, etc. Over $100 cheaper than this years model. Is there a big difference between the 2 models? The only thing I can see is the pontoons are a bit more rockered on this years model. Other than that there seems to be insiginifcant differences.

[cdock]

Looks like there are only minor differences according to Outcast. Basically the same boat with improved rocker and slightly relocated oars. Doesn't affect performance. The IR tracks a bit better from the improved rocker. Anyway, not a big concern for me so I went with the Discovery 8, last years model. Now the question is, do you need fins for these or are the oars enough? Please tell me I don't need fins. This sport is costing me a fortune and it never stops. Only 8 years of spending so far and I still want more. LOL!

[Weedy1]

You don't NEED fins but you WANT them, don't you?

 

Oh before I forget, you also need an anchor, rod holder, electric pump,depth finder, inflatable vest,extendable net, stripping apron, motor, a battery or two and some nice new slick sunglasses. Then a utility trailer to haul it all in so you don't have to blow it up. Only about another 2 grand or so and you'll be there. Just don't tell the better half........ if you have to, tell her you found it in an alley, kind of like coming home after school when you were a kid and trying to explain to your folks how you "found" something.

 

CH---------CHING!!!!!

 

Isn't fly fishing wonderful? Look at it this way, you could be in a bar drinking it all away!

 

Congrats on the new ride by the way. Hope you have fun.

[PAV]

Go for the Outcast PAC series, the few extra bucks is worth it!!

[cdock]

You don't NEED fins but you WANT them, don't you?

 

Oh before I forget, you also need an anchor, rod holder, electric pump,depth finder, inflatable vest,extendable net, stripping apron, motor, a battery or two and some nice new slick sunglasses. Then a utility trailer to haul it all in so you don't have to blow it up. Only about another 2 grand or so and you'll be there. Just don't tell the better half........ if you have to, tell her you found it in an alley, kind of like coming home after school when you were a kid and trying to explain to your folks how you "found" something.

 

CH---------CHING!!!!!

 

Isn't fly fishing wonderful? Look at it this way, you could be in a bar drinking it all away!

 

Congrats on the new ride by the way. Hope you have fun.

 

Man. More shopping to do. Know of any of those magic "alleys" I can pick some of that up? LOL!

[Pipestoneflyguy]

I have a outcast disco 9 - love it - comes with aluminum deck, alu frame, rod holder, anchor lock/pulley, stripping skirt, saddlebags, - only things on the wish list are 1) casting platform, and 2) offset motor mount. - I looked at a PAC at the time and couldn't really figure out what would justify the extra cost other than the two bladders per pontoon and even with that I figure if one pops you'll probably still end up in the drink huggin your boat and kicking to shore anyway - Nothing against the PAC seems like an awesome boat, I just found all the features I was seeking in the discovery thats all

 

I built my own tiller extension (similar to a sailboat type) to deal with the center motor mount issues.

 

I am working on a design for a casting deck - plan to do a write up if I come up with a simple enough build.

 

You can get by without flippers in most circumstances - I've forgotten or not bothered with em many times - put one foot in the water - rotate - the boat will rotate the other way - I'm pretty sure I caught no less fish on the days I forgot flippers LOL

 

At the time I bought mine a casting deck doubled the cost but looking at all the new catalogues I would have to say I would buy one with a deck if I had to replace mine for any reason now.