Swivels, Some Weight Comparisons

[alhuger]

I've been seeing allot about swivels on the board lately. I am a pretty big fan of using them although I must admit I have only ever used them in still water versus running water. One of things in the back of my mind lately has been, how heavy are my swivels when compared to other things I used to get my fly down. So, I grabbed some things off my tying desk today and weighed them against the swivels I had in my vest. This is obviously pretty imprecise and not exhaustive so take it for what it's worth.

 

Item Weight (in grams)

Barrel Swivel (Angelo's brand) Mixed alloy, size 5 0.8

Barrel Swivel (Protac Brand) Brass, size 2 1.6

 

 

Size 4 Wire Wrap SJW w/ gold bead 1.9

Size 10 Wire Wrap SJW w/ gold bead 1.0

Danielson Removable Split-shot, BB size 0.5

Lead dumb-bell eye, small 0.3

Lead dumb-bell eye, medium .06

Lead dumb-bell eye, large 2.7

Lead wire, .030, 7 inches 1.0

 

The goal here is to better understand through relative weights how quickly a swivel is going to get your fly down versus splitshot, beads, wire etc.

I do not consider the shape, current etc. all of which play a factor in the sink rate.

 

-al

[maxwell]

good stuf dude..ive bin preachin balanced rigs for a while..gotta mix n match your multi fly rigs weight with teh barrel swivel toog et the perfect buoyancy with the indy like the centerpin steelheaders...thanks for posting

[reevesr1]

Ok, so how do you balance:

Let's say small swivel, #10 wire worm, #16 winter stone, #20 midge (just as a for instance) in say 4 ft of water (not that I have anyplace in particular in mind )

 

Right now, I would have the swivel, say 2 ft to the worm, then stone, then midge. 8" to a foot between the flies. I'd probably have my indicator 6 to 8 feet above the swivel, but I'm not all that diligent in changing that length, unless it is noticeably short.

 

Should I rig it different? How and what is the rationale?

[maxwell]

its an on river adjustment for me..plus or minus a few grams

[reevesr1]

its an on river adjustment for me..plus or minus a few grams

Kind of a ninja answer, wasn't it?

[Harps]

Fly shape, current, line location... all play a bigger role than weight.

Two really good resources for getting flies down... (spey related, but always applicable)

 

http://www.hooked4life.ca/Fly_Design.html

This shows the importance of fly design and sink rate

 

 

http://flyfishingresearch.net/rulingyourflydepth.html

[maxwell]

lmao u betcha rick...i here ya harps..theres a ton of variables too concider.

[alhuger]

Fly shape, current, line location... all play a bigger role than weight.

Two really good resources for getting flies down... (spey related, but always applicable)

 

http://www.hooked4life.ca/Fly_Design.html

This shows the importance of fly design and sink rate

http://flyfishingresearch.net/rulingyourflydepth.html

 

Yep, as I stated in my post, I do not speak to those things. That is a really good article, thanks.

[Badger]

...

[Guest bigbadbrent]

hahaha look at that thingamabobber..that's pretty awesome

 

 

So Warren,

what about lifting power of say a chernobyle ant, and dave's hopper, etc..

 

 

very, very interesting.

[Badger]

...

[maxwell]

holly jeebus dude...thats hella cool..glad too see someone took the time too get a real equation.....i find thingamabobs are easier too speycast but if u got some breeze ur fuggled and cant throw a nice forward loop....

[Guest bigbadbrent]

I will have to some sink tests on the ants and hoppers, since I can't calculate their displacement.

 

 

Is that the medium thingamabobber, or the large?

 

I'm quite impressed, lots of info to think about.

[alhuger]

That is a fantastic chart, thanks allot!

[birchy]

So what kind of swivels are we talking here? The "ball bearing in the middle and loop at either end" kind?

[Castuserraticus]

I don't think total weight is the only balancing issue. I've wrestled with weight distribution. I've found the simplest to cast for me is having increasing mass towards the tip. This may be counter intuitive to line turn over but I try to use the current to load the rod most of the time with minimal false casting.

 

I used to use the lead strips for weight but feel I get faster penetration with shot as the mass is concentrated and there's less surface area to cut through the water.

 

I struggled when I first start using a swivel as adding another potential hinge point to the line seemed to cause even more tangles. When my concentration dropped, the loops would start to tail and the various hardware and knots would begin to catch on each other. With various shots, flies, and the swivel the physics of each weight moving at slightly different directions causes some spectacular tangles.

 

Does the ideal drift have all the flies ticking the bottom or do you want to cover some water column?

 

The primary role of the swivel is to prevent line twist and resulting tangles. Additional weight is secondary? Would it be as effective to go with the lightest swivel and place it just below the indicator? This reduces terminal tackle/knots with potentially less chance for tangles?