When Is An Experienced Fisherman...a Smart Fisherman?

[canadensis]

Deep...

[CTownTBoyz]

Like feeling guilty for not having a proper net to handle a really large trout you want to release. I see too many people trying to fight a trout hard and then use forceps to take the hook out without touching the trout and then see the trout sink to the bottom belly up. While they think they are smart and correct in releasing...not in this instance.

 

I will use a net sometimes (always from a boat), but from shore they are often unnecessary.

 

It is actually far better not to handle a fish at all and just use forceps, particularly if you are in a position to handle the fish if it becomes necessary. ALL nets remove the protective mucoprotein slime from a fishes skin.

 

Furthermore, fish that go belly-up after release don't always die. I've witnessed several instances of fish laying sideways or upside down on the bottom - only a few minutes later they gain their composure and swim away.

 

Fish going belly-up post release have more to do with water temperature, improper gear, unnecessary handling and prolonged fighting rather than the actual method of release. An experienced / smart angler knows these things. That said, it takes years to learn and master what is ultimately (no matter how experienced or smart you are) , a blood sport.

 

Mortality is inevitable.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I will use a net sometimes (always from a boat), but from shore they are often unnecessary.

 

It is actually far better not to handle a fish at all and just use forceps, particularly if you are in a position to handle the fish if it becomes necessary. ALL nets remove the protective mucoprotein slime from a fishes skin. This is only true if the fish is fresh and revived and able to swim away with conviction. A weak fish, immobilized by lactic acid build up is not in a position to just get dumped back into the water. They need time to revive. The rubberized nets are very good at not removing the fish slime.

 

Furthermore, fish that go belly-up after release don't always die. I've witnessed several instances of fish laying sideways or upside down on the bottom - only a few minutes later they gain their composure and swim away. No they don't always but a high enough percentage would such that why not release properly. Revive then release. If they are locked in lactic acid build up or since into the weeds and get stuck and they can't breath...it is such a waste.

 

Fish going belly-up post release have more to do with water temperature, improper gear, unnecessary handling and prolonged fighting rather than the actual method of release. An experienced / smart angler knows these things. That said, it takes years to learn and master what is ultimately (no matter how experienced or smart you are) , a blood sport. No...IMHO I must disagree and suggest it has more to do with straight lactic acid build up in the muscle tissue. They need time to revive and helping keep them in a position that they can breath and letting them move and stretch in well oxygenated water is better than lying belly up in the weeds and mud. You commend on prolonged fight is what causes lactic acid build up. I also find the big pig stockers are like sumo wrestlers that have never exercised a day in there life. Catching them and giving them a hard work out requires care and attention prior to release. Water temp can make this worse for sure. To light of gear and improper handling is a factor in the prolonged fight concern.

 

Mortality is inevitable.

 

There are many ways to look at this topic for sure. Mine is slightly different. I note my comments above in red.

 

While mortality is inevitable...we can decrease that occurrence with proper release techniques.

 

Cheers

 

Sun

[CTownTBoyz]

It is actually far better not to handle a fish at all and just use forceps, particularly if you are in a position to handle the fish if it becomes necessary. ALL nets remove the protective mucoprotein slime from a fishes skin.

This is only true if the fish is fresh and revived and able to swim away with conviction. A weak fish, immobilized by lactic acid build up is not in a position to just get dumped back into the water. They need time to revive. The rubberized nets are very good at not removing the fish slime.

 

Forceps don't remove mucoprotein, while rubberized nets do, if you can choose - no net is a better option. To your point, I think we all agree that a fish requires handling if it goes belly-up. And just out of curiosity, do you use a rubberized net?

 

Furthermore, fish that go belly-up after release don't always die. I've witnessed several instances of fish laying sideways or upside down on the bottom - only a few minutes later they gain their composure and swim away. No they don't always but a high enough percentage would such that why not release properly. Revive then release. If they are locked in lactic acid build up or since into the weeds and get stuck and they can't breath...it is such a waste

 

I don't think you fully understand Lactic Acid build-up. It does not dissipate because of time taken to release a fish; there has been several studies done that prove this point. There are a few fisheries biologists on this board; perhaps one of them will reference the exact studies (I currently have no access to Electronic Journals). There is an article by Harvey Thomassen on ariverneversleeps.com which discusses this Lactic Acid build-up (albeit in general terms) and post release mortality.

 

An Excerpt from the article;

Playing a fish for a long time can cause lactic acid to build up in the blood, which can be fatal hours or even days after a fish has been released. In one study 8% of 101 fish hooked on flies and lures and played to exhaustion died within a few hours of release. In another study, 20% of rainbow trout played to exhaustion and released were dead by day three; 80% died by day five, and 87% died by day ten. Lactic acid does not increase significantly in blood when rainbow trout are played for two or three minutes - but fish played four or more minutes do have significantly higher levels.

 

Fish going belly-up post release have more to do with water temperature, improper gear, unnecessary handling and prolonged fighting rather than the actual method of release. An experienced / smart angler knows these things. That said, it takes years to learn and master what is ultimately (no matter how experienced or smart you are) , a blood sport. No...IMHO I must disagree and suggest it has more to do with straight lactic acid build up in the muscle tissue. They need time to revive and helping keep them in a position that they can breath and letting them move and stretch in well oxygenated water is better than lying belly up in the weeds and mud. You commend on prolonged fight is what causes lactic acid build up. I also find the big pig stockers are like sumo wrestlers that have never exercised a day in there life. Catching them and giving them a hard work out requires care and attention prior to release. Water temp can make this worse for sure. To light of gear and improper handling is a factor in the prolonged fight concern.

 

Again to reiterate, just because you take time to release a fish does not mean the lactic acid will leave their body. Over playing a fish and using improper gear are the real culprits in lactic acid build-up and the metaphorical band-aid after an excessive fight has little impact, no matter how much time and care is taken.

 

The 'big pig stockers' are like 'sumo wrestlers' that have never exercised a day in their life'; I totally agree. In that sense there is little difficulty in landing them quickly with the right gear (speaking from personal experience).

 

 

I've noticed three common factors for fish going belly-up post release.

 

1. The fish was caught deep in a lake during peak warm summer periods and released at the lakes surface or shore (not many other options unless you fish with scuba gear), or the fish was caught in deep fast water in a river and released near the shore in warm water. The only way to avoid this is not fish those waters during those warm spells. In the last several summers there have been instances of water temperature increases to extremely dangerous levels. I can speak for myself and several of the other anglers I fish with and say that we choose not to fish waters that are effected during these warm spells (if one chooses to fish them that is their choice of course - IMHO it is not the best idea). We all use the proper gear and land fish as quickly as possible.

 

2. The fish was played to exhaustion because of lack of experience (happens to everyone), or the angler was using improper gear (bad form, however, the pro-angling community is largely to blame for this with their marketing slogan 'use the lightest tackle against the biggest fish'...that idea was dominant from the early eighties through to only six or seven years ago.....several anglers still adhere to this ridiculous mantra).

 

3. The fish has a mortal wound.

 

I had two fish go belly-up on me in the last year; both had mortal wounds. The longest fight I had with a trout in the last year was under three minutes (brown trout / 24" / 5 lbs. - was netted by the way because of the geography). The longest fight I had with a fish in the last year was with a bonefish and went on about five minutes - with a 9 weight and 12lb test - and I lost him.

[birchy]

I gotta say.. this makes me feel a bit nervous/guilty about that 29" bully I caught last year.

 

I wasn't targeting bull trout, but fortunately still had my 6 weight (I usually fish me 3 on this river). But it still took me ~10-15 minutes to land that big girl. I made sure to take her into some nice cold flowing water to revive her, but she sat in my hands for what seemed like a good 5 minutes before she finally swam off. I hope she made it!!

 

Does anyone know if the above referenced studies would be similar for bull trout/char?

[CTownTBoyz]

I gotta say.. this makes me feel a bit nervous/guilty about that 29" bully I caught last year.

 

I wasn't targeting bull trout, but fortunately still had my 6 weight (I usually fish me 3 on this river). But it still took me ~10-15 minutes to land that big girl. I made sure to take her into some nice cold flowing water to revive her, but she sat in my hands for what seemed like a good 5 minutes before she finally swam off. I hope she made it!!

 

Does anyone know if the above referenced studies would be similar for bull trout/char?

 

I don't know of any studies on Bull Trout / Char specifically.

 

I wouldn't feel nervous or guilty - it sounds like you did your best to handle an unforeseen situation.

 

[Garlicmarshmellow]

I can sympathise with with Sun about people using these lakes to fill their frezzers. At Arbour lake, they have to restock at least a couple of times a year. When the lake is frshly stocked, you see the same anglers taking their limit of 3 home and a lot of these are large fish. The smaller ones are release by these anglers. As for using light tackle to catch large fish, isn't there some sort of greatness given to anglers that catch a 20 inch fish on a size 20 fly on the Bow? The size of tippet used on these flys don't allow a lot of horsing when trying to land them.

[CTownTBoyz]

I can sympathise with with Sun about people using these lakes to fill their frezzers. At Arbour lake, they have to restock at least a couple of times a year. When the lake is frshly stocked, you see the same anglers taking their limit of 3 home and a lot of these are large fish. The smaller ones are release by these anglers. As for using light tackle to catch large fish, isn't there some sort of greatness given to anglers that catch a 20 inch fish on a size 20 fly on the Bow? The size of tippet used on these flys don't allow a lot of horsing when trying to land them.

 

It must be hard to fill your freezer if people are following the regulations ie.

 

 

1 fish/day/home

6 fish/month/home

24 fish/year/home

 

I can sympathize with people who want a trophy fishery as well. That said, it's Lake Sundance, a community pot-hole lake meant for both Fly Fisherman, and individuals who want to bait fish and bring a fish(s) home for dinner.

 

As to the '20/20 club' you are referring to; true, the size of tippet doesn't allow a lot of horsing when you're trying to land them, but it can be done quickly (3lb. and 4lb. test is incredibly strong). I think more often than not the tippet strength issue is compounded and made much worse when it is matched with a 3 weight or some other ultra light rod.

 

I am guilty of this myself. When I was in my early twenties (mid nineties) I regularly used a 3 weight on the Bow while dry-fly fishing. On another occasion when Sage introduced their '0' weight I went and tested one out on the Bow during the height of runoff (thinking there is no way I'm catching a thing that day....just trying out the rod) only to hook up with a 23" brown. I learned a lot about light rods and big fish from that fight. You can fight even very large fish from far away with the lightest rod, it's when they get close and you need to lift them that it becomes an issue. That fish ran well into the main current on the first run and it took me under a minute to get him within 20 feet. It took me another five minutes to bring him to hand; the rod simply couldn't lift him.

 

[Garlicmarshmellow]

Arbour lake

 

3 fish a day

10 fish a month

Easy to fill your freezer especially if your only keeping the large stocked fish

 

As for the 20/20 club, you may have the technique to land large fish quickly, but a lot of anglers will baby the fish in. As for 3 - 4 lb being incredibly strong ... it's 3 - 4 lb tippet, not something I would call strong. I think I read in Jim M.'s latest book that the lighter the rod the less chance of breaking lighter tippet due to the flex in the rod. Maybe I read it somewhere else. The test was done pulling a boot from what I recall. I can't remmeber it word for word. Maybe the Mexican heat was getting to me when I read it.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

It must be hard to fill your freezer if people are following the regulations ie.

 

 

1 fish/day/home

6 fish/month/home

24 fish/year/home

 

I can sympathize with people who want a trophy fishery as well. That said, it's Lake Sundance, a community pot-hole lake meant for both Fly Fisherman, and individuals who want to bait fish and bring a fish(s) home for dinner.

 

As to the '20/20 club' you are referring to; true, the size of tippet doesn't allow a lot of horsing when you're trying to land them, but it can be done quickly (3lb. and 4lb. test is incredibly strong). I think more often than not the tippet strength issue is compounded and made much worse when it is matched with a 3 weight or some other ultra light rod.

 

I am guilty of this myself. When I was in my early twenties (mid nineties) I regularly used a 3 weight on the Bow while dry-fly fishing. On another occasion when Sage introduced their '0' weight I went and tested one out on the Bow during the height of runoff (thinking there is no way I'm catching a thing that day....just trying out the rod) only to hook up with a 23" brown. I learned a lot about light rods and big fish from that fight. You can fight even very large fish from far away with the lightest rod, it's when they get close and you need to lift them that it becomes an issue. That fish ran well into the main current on the first run and it took me under a minute to get him within 20 feet. It took me another five minutes to bring him to hand; the rod simply couldn't lift him.

 

24 fish a year can equate to 240 lbs or more of trout is a lot. Our old regs were 4 day, 8 week, 12 month, up to 48 a year. With a lake our size we should be able to stock about 9000 trout mostly due to budget and secondarily because of the perch now. We only stock about 3000 and there is 3500 residences all allowed 24/year. Granted while not all residents are taking fish home we still have to take into account catch rates, loses due to predation (fish under 16 inches taken by loons and osprey), poaching, disease etc. In order to keep the fishing half decent we need to increase numbers...and that was evident to anyone fishing and clearly seen in our declining angling usuage. Currently the catch rates are still somewhat low for the average person but definitely improving. The strictly put and take mentality is fine if all you want in the community is 2-4 weeks of fishing until the next stocking and only 12 inch trout as that is all the budget could afford. Just try fishing Mount Lorette Ponds 2 weeks after stockign. Nothing left. With any fishery you need rules and regs to manage appropriately. I hope you understand that. People sometimes get upset when you move towards better management of a resource. Unfortunately with human nature the complainers always complain and rarely help or offer constructive critisizm and the people that like it don't bother saying anything. When in a volunteer position...one always finds that.

 

As for your comments on lactic acid build up...yes I heard about the study mentioning mortality some time after release. It has been around for a while. Studies on Largemouth Bass is also interesting. Still there are mortalities as a result of fish sinking belly up to the bottom. I have seen them first hand so I do know it happens. I have seen poor fishing behavoir leave a trail of trout on the bottom. I had it happen to me once last year when a trout slipped away too early. The trout were still on the bottom dead the next day... They float up usually soon after. I have not seen that happen to the fish I have released properly. We also do not have a huge problem with dead fish. We just need to do the best we can to help our fishery remain fun.

 

Playing the fish with the wrong gear leads to lactic acid build up. I strongly agree there. Using light tippet and playing a fish to exhaustion and then releasing is not smart.

 

Yes I do use a net but only if the trout is extremely big and it is not quick to get in and easily handled to remove the hook. I feel the rubberized net is much better and I stopped using cloth nets. I can see the slime on the cloth nets...I don't see it noticeable on the rubber nets. Sure...I am sure there is some loss with any friction but I see benefits also. I see many people struggling to control the trout, pinning it to the boat, gripping hard, squeezing it to hard, dragging it up on shore, pinning it to the bottom of a boat or dock, missing the hook only to have it dart away and fight longer (which you say you agree is bad). Controlling the fish, quickly removing the hook and gently releasing to me is optimum. We can agree to disagree on that if you like. In a perfect world however...if you can bring the fish to you quickly, use forceps to remove the hook and all done with out a thrashing fish...that is utopia for sure. We can agree on that. Sometimes a fish that comes in quick goes ballistic and a new fight is on.

 

As for what kind of fishery is Lake Sundance...it is a fishery that should try and balance the needs of the users. That is have enough to eat, enough to catch, enough sport to make as many (the majority) happy without ignoring the minority. I can never see Lake Sundance being catch and release for instance. I would not endorse it nor vote for it. I would council people that wanted a strictly catch and release lake that it is not necessary so long as we maintain a stable population and catch rates and we continue to get stocking funding.

 

I try and talk to as many fishermen as possible to get their opinion. If you are a resident of lake sundance your opinion does count. Please believe me on that. If you are not a resident...there is nothing wrong with stating your opinion as food for thought.

 

http://www.acuteangling.com/Reference/C&RMortality.html

I can't argue against most of what he says in this summary...with the exception he did not look specifically at different net types.

 

Cheers

 

Sun