BBBrownie Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Hi, I have a 8129 z axis and am a relative beginner to the world of 2 hand rods. I have been out a few times the past week trying to get the rod figured and get some casts down, but have been having a bit of trouble loading the rod up. I have it lined with a delta spey 8/9 as the sage site recommends this, but it sure feels very close to being underlined. I have only been able to get about 15 feet past the head out on a cast, and can't throw anything heavy any real distance. I realize that it can be a bit tougher to learn on a fairly fast rod, but it just doesn't feel like it is loading up even. I've casted a bit on a Loop Yellow of my friends and find it seems to throw much easier, when casting (with the same line) much of the time, it feels like it could throw as much line as I want to feed it, never have that feeling yet with the z/delta combo i've been working. Any suggestions? I will certainly have other lines, Skagit, etc for next year, I'm really just working on getting some casts down for the winter and this doesn't seem to have the correct line weighting? Perhaps I just need to work on gettin some skill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'm honestly not a fan of the wincutter line. It also isn't really made to chuck big nasties. I'd check into a scandi or skagit head for that. Check this page for some line recommendations: http://www.redshedflyshop.com/compguidetosage.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 is the yellowline the 8124 or 9130? they could have similar grain windows too you 9126 but if it feels light too you compared too the other two rods u might want too go heavier..... it can be mre of a prefrence hting if ou like it in te top half or bottom half of te grain window..... i like em light but others want them heavier too slow te rod down a bit! if u can get ahold of a line size heavier give it a try and see what happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBBrownie Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 is the yellowline the 8124 or 9130? they could have similar grain windows too you 9126 but if it feels light too you compared too the other two rods u might want too go heavier..... it can be mre of a prefrence hting if ou like it in te top half or bottom half of te grain window..... i like em light but others want them heavier too slow te rod down a bit! if u can get ahold of a line size heavier give it a try and see what happens! The Loop is a 9130, my rod is an 8129. If I have the chance I will try something heavier, I will probably load another reel up with a 600 grain Skagit and see how that feels, i've heard that the 8129 likes to be loaded heavy. I think the skagit setup will be closer to what I would likely fish most of the time anyhow as I think so far I personally prefer the skagit style of casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 if its a 8wt i cant see it needing too be loaded up that much.... but that is just me..... some may say she likes to be loaded heavy but only if that is what u like!!!! go too fishtales (they have the skagit kit) take it out for a hour or two and toss all ines from teh 540-600 grain range(5 lines or so) find the 3 u like the best then find teh 2 that feel the best then pick the 1 that feels the best!!! rig it up with a sinktip and fly u tend too toss.... its the best way ive foudn too line any of my rods! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykiss Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I'm honestly not a fan of the wincutter line. It also isn't really made to chuck big nasties. I'd check into a scandi or skagit head for that. Check this page for some line recommendations: http://www.redshedflyshop.com/compguidetosage.html Before the Skagit era this was the line to chuck big nasties with..along with Scando set up's....I still believe you can throw big nasties with a 50-55 foot head such as a WC...although a skagit does make it easier..however don't give up on the longer bellied line it will make you a better caster in the long run..I acutally think skagit pigeon holes people on how the evolve in spey. No dispute however on the ease for the beginning caster that skagit casting is easier to pick up on..or that slinging 20ft of T-14 on the end of your line is a cake walk..it like everything does have its place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 ...although a skagit does make it easier.. Exactly. So why would you purposely want to use a tool (in this case a mid-belly line) that makes the job more difficult? however don't give up on the longer bellied line it will make you a better caster in the long run..I acutally think skagit pigeon holes people on how the evolve in spey. How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykiss Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Exactly. So why would you purposely want to use a tool (in this case a mid-belly line) that makes the job more difficult? How so? Question #1. Because stripping gets difficult also....If one can toss big nasties with a longer bellies line such as the W/C or even heads in the 70+ft range it makes life easy. Question #2 Because your relegated to water borne anchors...not touch and go. Yawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistler Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Question #1. Because stripping gets difficult also....If one can toss big nasties with a longer bellies line such as the W/C or even heads in the 70+ft range it makes life easy. Question #2 Because your relegated to water borne anchors...not touch and go. Yawn no actually it is very easy to do all casts with skagit style lines though most associate sustained anchor casting with Skagit lines. just to be difficult I will also add that a sure fire way to develop bad habits is to cast a line that is too long for your rod ie 65' head on a 12' rod Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykiss Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 no actually it is very easy to do all casts with skagit style lines though most associate sustained anchor casting with Skagit lines. just to be difficult I will also add that a sure fire way to develop bad habits is to cast a line that is too long for your rod ie 65' head on a 12' rod Brian Brian, My experiences with Skagit set ups is they are not easy to do all casts with.. It shines with doubles and Snap T's and really rocks the poke..however setting up touch and go anchors is labour intensive and when you do get the set up your timing has to be spot on...Too early and you blow your cast..too late and your blow up your rod..A longer head with its grains spread through out 36+FT IMO is much easier to set up and cast a touch and go and much more forgiving for bad timing. Not sure why you want to be difficult however I never said a skagit head would make you a bad caster...I said don't get pigeon holed into just 1 style of casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistler Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Brian, My experiences with Skagit set ups is they are not easy to do all casts with.. It shines with doubles and Snap T's and really rocks the poke..however setting up touch and go anchors is labour intensive and when you do get the set up your timing has to be spot on...Too early and you blow your cast..too late and your blow up your rod..A longer head with its grains spread through out 36+FT IMO is much easier to set up and cast a touch and go and much more forgiving for bad timing. Not sure why you want to be difficult however I never said a skagit head would make you a bad caster...I said don't get pigeon holed into just 1 style of casting. not being difficult, just correcting you that's all . Scandi heads are similar lengths to skagit lines and are typically associated with touch and go casts. It is true that skagit lines are heavier than scandi lines but touch and go casts really arent that difficult with proper technique and a little bit of practice. If you are having trouble with these casts I will be out again in the spring and would be happy to spend some time with you. Brian Niska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I think if you're just starting out you would want to try as many different lines as you can and determine which you prefer. I've cast long bellies, mids, scandis, and skagits. For my fishing I prefer skagit for sink tips and scandi for floating work. At the end of the day it's about getting the fly in front of the fish and enjoying yourself while doing it no matter what kind of line or rod you're using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykiss Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 not being difficult, just correcting you that's all . Scandi heads are similar lengths to skagit lines and are typically associated with touch and go casts. It is true that skagit lines are heavier than scandi lines but touch and go casts really arent that difficult with proper technique and a little bit of practice. If you are having trouble with these casts I will be out again in the spring and would be happy to spend some time with you. Brian Niska Brian, Not having troubles with em at all with my scando/WC/MS set ups... thanks for the correction also I think Ed nailed it on a thread on the spey pages.... http://speypages.com/speyclave/showthread....rs+skagit+lines that is why I choose to use the Skagit for SA casts rather than T&G casts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistler Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Brian, Not having troubles with em at all with my scando/WC/MS set ups... thanks for the correction also I think Ed nailed it on a thread on the spey pages.... http://speypages.com/speyclave/showthread....rs+skagit+lines that is why I choose to use the Skagit for SA casts rather than T&G casts. happy to let you know what is possible and not to fall into the trap of thinking you are limited by your gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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