steelhead

Further discussion is being held over on the "other" forum My replies to sun can be found there. I still dont agree with this and no one has come up with anything to convince me otherwise. The bullshead example doesnt apply to K lakes. Bullshead - One specie of fish. Never had a self sustaining specie of fish to begin with, didnt already have 3 or more species in it before regs were made. Closed system prairie pothole. In an area where there is a need for enhanced trout fishing opps. K lakes - more than 3 species of self sustaining fish. Natural waterflows into and waterflow out into another system. Spawning species. Many quality fish already and before proposed regs. In an area abundant with quality trout fishing already from lakes and many rivers. Possibility of upsetting an established balance providing big fish already, and into an uncertain future. Bullshead isnt in the same class as Klakes and what works there has a great possibility to wreck an already quality fishery. STEELHEAD

Sun wrote... Answer...because from a management perspective it makes more sense in some places than all places. So, in an area with an abundance of trout fishing in streams and lakes, Why does it make sense to make a quality fishery in K lakes? The rivers have huge fish too. Theres probably more trout anglers on the rivers than will be on that lake (and hiding from the watchfull eye of any enforcement). Now, I can understand a quality fishery on the prairies miles from quality trout, but why in the heartland of trout fishing? Keep the lakes for the kids to catch some dinks, the rivers are managed very well for the monsters they hold. On the prairies, good, in the mountains, bad. The less they have to stock these lakes, the more eyes they have from anglers watching poachers, the more non-government agencies get involved the less the gov has to put money too. And, we see a lower budget. Pretty clear to me. its been getting lower in the last 15 years too. The less the gov has to do, the less they have to pay. Damn clear to me. sun also wrote.... The Bow River for instance is a fishery that does not get stocked. Does fine. The Crowsnest is not stocked. The Oldman is not stocked. All these fisheries are going well without stocking. A put and take lake with no natural spawning...requires stocking. They were all stocked at one time. With invasive species at the top of the list of invasives. They wanted a quality fishery back then too i guess. You are using river ecosystems as an example to compare to lakes with no waterflow or a closed system. Your a BIO, you should know better. You cant compare the 2, at all, no way. That position doesnt stand, at all, no way. You just mentioned rivers, any lakes you care to share with the same successes as your river examples? And maybee when they did the test netting, all those big fish were up a stream somewhere? possible? STEELHEAD __________________ official leader of the internet forum opposition party.

sun wrote.... Your assumption that there are loads of big fish in the lakes already is not shown in gill netting data. There was not a large number caught in UKL so your assumption is wrong. There were only 50 rainbows measured in the LKL that were large. The lakes show they can grow them big...but harvest is quick. How deep of water were the nets placed? how many times a year and for how many years were the netting done to have a proper analysis done? How many different areas of the lake were the nets put in? Were those big fish released unharmed? Ok, just an edit, I looked at your data that you use. Way too flawed to get anywhere near a fair estimate on the fish sizes in those lakes. I move to have that flawed data exempt from these talks and your petition. I would say your assumptions are wrong and with flawed data. Our fisheries budget gets smaller every year. One indicator that with more rules and regs and less spending on quality lakes, they dont need the money to enhance them, theyre doing it all on thier own, with less spending. You also wrote.... I disagree that we need to stocking more...stocking implies an over harvest and an unsustainable fishery. Theres not a fishery in Canada that is sustainable. Overharvest happens everywhere! So as many other provinces see it, stocking is the only way to go. Alberta has done enough testing and fiddling with our fisheries. All to be proven to be the wrong approach. Take some examples from other provinces and spend money and raise enforcement. Why dont we all band together and petition for more money and enforcement. Theres no way in Hades you will get quality anywhere in this province without it! Start there, and in a few years, i'm sure everyone will sign your petition with no "nays" on the poll. STEELHEAD __________________ official leader of the internet forum opposition party.

I disagree strongly with these regulations as..... .....The cheaper you make it for the SRD to manage these lakes, ie. less stocking, more rules to manage, you are also taking money out of the system making a lower budget for next year. Nice to come up with quality lakes, but if the budget keeps getting slashed (as its at its breaking point now) and the gov reduces the budget to equal its previous expenditures, these quality options will degrade all other fisheries and enforcement spending. You all want quality fisheries??? How about a petition to get more money for enforcement and larger stocking quotas for many species, not just trout. You will see bigger fish that way also. Get moe people fishing walleyes and there will be less catch and bonkers at your favorite LOL, quality fishery. If trout are the easiest fish to catch in this province, Make the other species easier and more plentiful to catch and draw people away from the trout. That equals quality fishery a hundred fold Your options take money, not save money and will harm all our fisheries.. I disagree with that and will vote no. If you cant get alot of big rainbows and larger fish out of K lakes, yer not getting your fly lines down deep enough. Your quality fish are already in there, but with it being such a big and deep lake, your fishing tactics may not help you get them! Petition for more spending on enforcement and dollars. Richest province in Canada and it has the poorest track record for its fishing and conservation enforcement. Then the bigger fish will come. It works everywhere else, but here. All other provinces actually, but here. I guess no one here ever looks at what other provinces do, except BC. they have what they have from big spending and enforcement. your focus is wrong for everything STEELHEAD

Its also a no OHV area. There shouldnt be any motorized vehicles in there no matter how they arrived. I like that place. Do your best to keep them out. Its worth calling it in. Steelhead

Since the provincial government is being stingey with the bucks and wont help out, and wont listen for another couple years, Have you tried effecting change using the municipal government? I have seen projects like your get off the ground faster when municipalities are used to "change thier community for the better" or "further educate thier children". Not only that, they have a bigger connection to the provincial government. If we were to persuade a municipal government that this certain pond should have these strict regs to keep this fishery alive, and have regular patrols from enforcement as the vandals and poachers are making the community look as best it can, they can change the laws in that municipality to make it work for the communities. Then its them looking for the cash from the big guys to do all this. I bet they would do most of the fighting for you. Not only that, municipal persuasion can bring many groups to the table to help in volounteer efforts like the scouts to plant trees, the elks to make benches, donations, all sorts of help. They also have a mass amount of very large earth moving equipment. I have noticed very recently, that many towns and municipalities have created an environmental division in thier ranks due to this green revolution. I offered a silly suggestion once(to one of our CITY environmental divisions), and one of them bit, and was willing to jam a large amount into it. If it has solar, can be done cheap with volounteers, and school project in the equasion, your in!LOL If not, work on the towns and villages also. These people are always willing to listen and have a bigger voice. They'll drive right to your house sometimes! One of thier citizens being picked on by the provincial government! they wont let that happen. Now THATS the Alberta way. I think your cutting out the middle man who can make the better deals for you all and can carry you across the banana peels on a flying carpet. I bet you could get a municipal or town leader to come to a BBQ at your house after a day of fishing, than you could a provincial representitive. Its much easier to make friends with your neighbours. I must add, you will have to share the glory with many other contributing groups and not be greedy putting the TU name all over it like it was all them that did it. Something like that doesnt scare you all off, does it? Thats my suggestion. If you have tried that, with no success, my appologies for rambling. I have seen it work so much and sooo well in other provinces, that it is my best suggestion. I have seen only a couple of groups use municipalities in this province, and they got exactly and all they wanted. What, are you all born albertans and never left the province to see how other people in other provinces do things? You could learn something! But nows the time to hit them if the prov gov isnt going to listen for another 2 years. From what i have seen, theyre just looking to spend alot of provincial cash right now. The more they spend, the more they get next year. They can change laws. They get paid by the government to pressure the government!! How hillarious is that! STEELHEAD

boy, I must have been super drunk!!LOL I'm just bringing up a point that many here seem to have missed. I do that once in a while as i see not many look at the bigger picture. So, my appologies for the tough love kids! Time to take your medicine. People in this province are very attracted to good fishing, to the point of changing thier target species and tactics. More people come to me day after day to ask more about trout fishing than the species those individuals usually deal with. When asked " why the change?" a typical response is " the trout fishing is better in this province". You should be happy that I suggest flies and flyline and not bobbers and marshmallows! You keep making it better, and many more will come. More people, more fishing birds, LOL, more Otters. Alot of your work comes in Baby steps, not giant leaps as it should, due to the growing population of trout anglers hitting the waters. Everytime you see a newbie on these boards say they cant catch walleye, or pike, or perch, is one more person heading the way of trout. And these people will speak out against limited harvests, closures, and the implementation of quality fisheries regs because they dont see your views as helping them catch more fish in these pothole situations. Isnt that funny, there are groups that have spoken out against what you are trying to achieve. It has already started. Once the rest of our fisheries have improved, your tasks will be easy and flowing. Until that balance has been achieved, it will just be baby steps and a few hard falls. You wont get anywhere with a Me Me Me attitude. And then get offended when others shoot down what your trying to do. Give a little, get alot. Time to do some more brainstorming and find a path that works. The one your on is full of banana peels. STEELHEAD And why the heck would calgarians want anything to do with Pothole fishing, when all the best trout fishing in natural streams and settings are all within an hour of, or right in the big C? Your problem is a northern one, where trout fishing is limited. Have you not realized that? You have worked it all to a point where other TU members and organizations are feeling excluded and not seeing fairness within a common name, TU. If making enemies to get get what you want, is the way you found that works, your fight is going to get much worse.

Do something to persuade government to improve all the other fisheries to keep people off these potholes. You guys done such a good job that the fishing is better in potholes than our hundreds of other lakes. Who wants to get skunked when they can take home a limit in no time. Without a balance, you will see days of 20 plus boats on these puddles a little more often than once a year. As the other lakes and species degrade, we are all seeing more trout anglers come out of the woodwork. Have fun with that. STEELHEAD

Thats not a texas forest, thats a Boreal forest in the background. They dont have them in Texas STEELHEAD

Holy, Listen to this guy go! I have personally hit Carseland bait many many times in the past 15 years. Why? If Calgary doesnt have what I want, While i am driving to Travers or Keho, or The south Sask, I have a few options for bait stores to hit on the way. Carseland, Mossliegh, Vulcan. And the latter 2 are always sold out. Carseland has it all!! I used to use bait bought from there to fish the Bow. east of HWY24 was a free river to fish bait in 5 years ago. So there was a close by recent oppourtunity to fish bait on the bow. All the other fellas, like me, who know of this bait store, generally hit it on thier way to other lakes. I'm sure theres a small percentage who use it on the Bow ilegally, but i'm sure they know they will get caught sometimes cause theres enough of you whining snivellers down there ready to call the cops on them! Theres no darn way you can compare the bait store in Carseland to illegal bait use on the Bow river. Every husky or mohawk in Calgary sells bait, and thats where the most people are coming to go fishing from. Steelhead

If there is a stream running into, or out of Bullshead that is linked up to waters already containing brookies..... .........they swam there. Steelhead

As I see it, it was MTB that started with the negativity MTB wrote......... "I have to step in and say something and I'm sure it will offend, but what Steelhead wrote is ridiculous." And ........... "Taking Fly fishing advice from someone that was "Casting a Crank" as recently as this Spring, might not get you the results you are looking for." What am I going to do, not defend myself or what I wrote? If you knew it was going to offend me, why add in that last line about crank casting??? To offend me more? Thats awfully nice of you. You bet i am going to stick up for my methods. Especially when they work and may help others to catch bigger fish. I offered an alternative method to a person so he could have a chance at a bigger fish as he has not had much luck using the traditional methods of those on this board. I thought I was being good. But since they go against what one or a couple of people think, I'm the demon. Then I had to proove myself, with pics, and a long discussion of why I believe streamers work great, and defending myself from the well-knowns at the same time. I flip flopped my comments on some posts to put MTB into answering my question. It took someone else to ask him to, but he answered it, but not for me, for others, and it was a very good answer. He wouldnt give any good streamer advice otherwise. So please, forgive me for my methods of standing up for myself and trying to add some helpfull advice. They were negative to only those who took shots at me. And those shots were at me, not my methods. I only have a few mins to write today, but i will gladly offer my advice and techniques to this thread on Tuesday for those that are interested. But the suggestions offered by others so far concerning streamers are excellent techniques are not too different than the ones I am going to offer. Excellent advice they have offered. But hey, keep the cheap thoughts comin boys. Its interesting to see how others respond. 8 hundred members and only 40 regular posters, with only a select few who act like this and shoot individuals down and thier methods, no wonder why 760 people remain silent on this board. I wouldnt want to talk or befriend half of you either. Its hard for people to keep up with the godliness. See ya on Tuesday. That will give you all time to give me the gears some more while I cant respond. Steelhead

What did I say that gave you the assumption that I use all the hooks on a crank? Maybee you should have asked before assuming. I use single barbless hooks. I cant say the same for everyone else that cranks, thats them, this is me. That way i dont belly, back and face hook like using a dropper fly. As much as no one likes me here, I do have concern for the fish I catch, and only use single hooks and single flies, no droppers as they foul hook alot. I would like to see the regs change to stop the use of dropper flies. They are the fly anglers pickerel rig. used by flyangling butchers all over the province. They are bad. So yah , make me into the boogey man and the reason all the big fish are scarred, when you had to change fishing styles and not the amount of hooks on your crank to stop foul hooking and scarring fish. How did I know someone was going ask when the best time to use streamers was. He he. Thanks for answering my question MTB. Like you told fly high and dry, " By limiting yourself to only one aspect of Fly Fishing, you are likely limiting the number of fish you will catch, as well as limiting yourself to moderately sized fish." Now hes trying streamers. Excellent job on the encouragement. A big change from your initial comments about streamers. My take on whens the best time to throw streamers, ANYTIME, any day, any part of the season. And why I say that........ Theres one constant on the BOW, and thats baitfish. They are always present, no hatch times of year, no seasons for baitfish, they are always in there. And there isnt a trout on the planet that wont hit at a well presented baitfish pattern at any time of year. Whitefish, dace of 3 different varieties, 3 types of suckers, 2 types of shiner, perch, troutperch, small trout, sculpin, darters. WOW, theres just as many types of baitfish as there are types of bugs. Isnt that something! Because no one can open up a big trout on the Bow to see what it eats, no one really knows what the largest fish are eating with any definite answer, all assumptions. I have caught 24 inch plus bows out of lake Mcgregor many times. They all go into that lake from the bow river. They can be kept there. I have kept a few as have many people I know. Whats in thier stomachs??? Perch minnows, shiner minnows, sucker minnows, and maybee a few bugs and shrimp. Mostly baitfish. And if anyone here knows lake Mcgregor, they would know its full of bugs and shrimp. Humm? Why is it all those big fish eat all the baitfish before eating bugs?? Hummm? Maybee theres something to that? Now, many of you have launched a boat at Makinnons (like all the know-it-all ex-guides who have come to bash me) and have fished there. If you have, you will notice the amount of baitfish at your feet in the shallows. There are millions billions trilions of baitfish in that river. And they can be seen there at all times of year, long before and long after all the major hatches of bugs. A fish may be slammin bugs, but if he sees a baitfish swimmin by, hes on it. The big fish know a good meal when they see it. Fish are programed to eat dead and dying fish. Its a healthy meal and they get more nutrient than a bug for the work they put out for it. The fish know that, why dont any of you realize that? No matter what time of year your fishing, day, night, dawn, dusk, clear water or stained, no matter what type of bugs the trout are after, they will always hit a well presented baitfish pattern. Thats what big trout do. This is too much fun! Keep the shots comin boys. And open up a book and read about trout, you might learn something! Steelhead Getting a big kick out of this thread too!! Thanks for your entertaining insights.

there was a post a while back where weedy got me on my grammer when he didnt have anything good to say. I called him on it, and he replied with a great response that was helpfull and kind. why cant you do the same. I asked a question, how about answering it. You obviously dont agree with the use of streamers for big fish, tell us why. Please. other than cutting my methods down and myself being a crank caster. When is a good time for streamers? Prove to us you have an answer, steelhead

Yah you got me. You mentioned that everything you say will be wrong in my eyes. Well, it looks like its the other way around. You were right all along, and I am wrong. You obviously know way more about fishing the bow than I do. You are not narrowminded for not spin fishing the bow, it is an exclusive fly fishing river and using spin methods for research is all wrong. But please, for the interest of others, MTB, when is the right time and place for throwing streamers? I wouldnt mind a few tips from someone who knows and has 30+years, and so would many others on here i'm sure. Do you have any favorite patterns exclusive to the Bow to share? Other than cutting up my methods, please add something reasonable. I am also getting tired of cutting up your dribble also. the old everyone else is wrong and I am right theory is getting tiring thank you. Steelhead