Cackhanded?

[headscan]

Was just curious how many people cast cackhanded vs with their weak (non-dominant) hand on top. I've tried both and it feels more comfortable to me to have my weak hand up.

 

My right bank, left hand up casts seem smoother (though a little more awkward) than my left bank, right hand up casts as well. Maybe since my left arm doesn't have the muscle memory from single-handed casting? Anyone else experience this?

[Guest bigbadbrent]

im all about dominant on top

 

edit..mind out of the gutter folks!

[maxwell]

i prefer cack cuz its easier but im practicing with the left hand up

[Whistler]

I always cast with my right hand high(right handed caster).

 

Switching hands does allow you the longest possible stroke so would be useful with the longest of rods and heads(80+ feet). Normal fishing lines don't require the extreme stroke length and as such I prefer to always keep my rod in the same hand I use while fishing.

 

Most students find the backhand cast challenging at first but once the pick it up tend to cast the tighhtest loops that way after a short time. I believe this is because of the handcuffed shorter stroke length and positve stop backhand affords. Also it is tougher to overpower when back handed so this may explain why novice caster tend to pick up the backhand so well.

 

Since there are advantages to both it comes down to personal preference. Though I often teach with my left hand high, I have a hard time wanting to switch hands while fishing. Not to mention the backhand cast is super fun to do.

 

Brian

[pkk]

cackhanded, same same as Brian said.

[ogilvie]

Some of the bad habits we pick up along the way are more easily adapted to or disguised better with the BackHand Cast or Cackhand! Especially once you begin to use very heavy tips and full sinking line set-ups. As Brian said,longer bellied lines are much more comfortable to cast with proper hand placement.

Many years ago when the first XLT Spey lines were developed my task was to master the entire belly doing the Snake Roll and useing only a 14' rod. Of the 5 or 6 rods we were useing the TnT 1409 and the Hardy Gem were the sticks that worked the best ,useing my Left undominant hand. A combination of Muscle memory yes, and the rods were able to respond to the power surge employed to manage so much line out of the water and develope effective loops. That may also explain why my dominant shoulder eventually blew out .

C

[pkk]

beg to differ islandguy. cackhanded doesnt mask or adapt to bad habits. i beleive because of the restricted movement in the cackhand there is less room for error and you are somewhat forced into the right position.its a nice compact stroke. yes longer rods,longer bellies therefore a longer stroke, which is great if you are in a distance casting competition but rarely needed for actual fishing. I prefer a much more compact casting style (rarely catch steelhead beyond that 70')

[ogilvie]

beg to differ islandguy. cackhanded doesnt mask or adapt to bad habits. i beleive because of the restricted movement in the cackhand there is less room for error and you are somewhat forced into the right position.its a nice compact stroke. yes longer rods,longer bellies therefore a longer stroke, which is great if you are in a distance casting competition but rarely needed for actual fishing. I prefer a much more compact casting style (rarely catch steelhead beyond that 70')

You are correct, the restricted stroke movement of a back handed or cack handed cast sets up the potential for certain delivery...that said,it doesn't stop errors along the way. The question,"Is Skagit Style Casting True Spey Casting"...IMHO ..Yes;of course. And Skagit Style casting involves cack handed strokes openly!and very effectively! Speed of delivery and anchor is much more apparent with this method of casting.And it is this speed of Cast that is somewhat forgiving of the caster and the cast. Gravity and time are our friends during short stroke casting situations. Balance and Rythm...

[pkk]

it seems to me that is really irrelevant whether a skagit style is a true spey cast or not (lets not bang our heads on that one). i am somewhat confused in your description; speed of delivery. and the speed of the cast that is forgiving ( are you referring to the skagit style)? in an earlier post you also mention full sinking lines, anyone use those?

[alhuger]

it seems to me that is really irrelevant whether a skagit style is a true spey cast or not (lets not bang our heads on that one). i am somewhat confused in your description; speed of delivery. and the speed of the cast that is forgiving ( are you referring to the skagit style)? in an earlier post you also mention full sinking lines, anyone use those?

 

 

I picked up some snowbee full sink lines at the show with the intention of fishing them in stillwater. After taking them out and practicing with them I've come to the realization that without a current to swing it back up it's going to be a bitch to work these things back to the surface in the lake for the recast. They do cast really nicely though and I think they will be very handy for fishing river mouths where I have enough current to work with it without it being a really noisy intensive effort to bring her back up. I am also going to try them in the salt this year.

 

-al

[ogilvie]

it seems to me that is really irrelevant whether a skagit style is a true spey cast or not (lets not bang our heads on that one). i am somewhat confused in your description; speed of delivery. and the speed of the cast that is forgiving ( are you referring to the skagit style)? in an earlier post you also mention full sinking lines, anyone use those?

Thanks for opening this dialogue... in my description of "Speed" I am referring to a casting style either Scandi., Skagit,and even underhand.These styles of casting encorporate shorter ,heavier or a more compact weight distribution,of lines....lock and load! A good example of this is the" 1/2 out" rule when fishing or casting with heavy tips,especially when useing these shorter compact line systems. At the "White Mouse" speed in forming your D or preferrably V loop , once your sink tip is approx. 1/2 out of the water you engage your forward stroke. There is so much momentum because of compact weight and short fast stroke that we are able to lift the remaining sinking line out of the water with the fly attached,almost like dragging the anchor to manipulate your loop forward and ironically be able to slightly adjust your desired direction. Longer bellied lines and even softer rods do not provide us with the versatility to enact this movement as efficiently.

Interestingly enough,Al has mentioned trying to use the full sinking lines (short head spey 44' "),rather than try to quickly pull that line from the waters depths it is fairly easy to slowly drag the line to the surface against the current or waters resistance ,they quickly performing your desired cast. The Same applies to all submerged lines.

C

[headscan]

Thanks for opening this dialogue... in my description of "Speed" I am referring to a casting style either Scandi., Skagit,and even underhand.These styles of casting encorporate shorter ,heavier or a more compact weight distribution,of lines....lock and load! A good example of this is the" 1/2 out" rule when fishing or casting with heavy tips,especially when useing these shorter compact line systems. At the "White Mouse" speed in forming your D or preferrably V loop , once your sink tip is approx. 1/2 out of the water you engage your forward stroke. There is so much momentum because of compact weight and short fast stroke that we are able to lift the remaining sinking line out of the water with the fly attached,almost like dragging the anchor to manipulate your loop forward and ironically be able to slightly adjust your desired direction. Longer bellied lines and even softer rods do not provide us with the versatility to enact this movement as efficiently.

Interestingly enough,Al has mentioned trying to use the full sinking lines (short head spey 44' "),rather than try to quickly pull that line from the waters depths it is fairly easy to slowly drag the line to the surface against the current or waters resistance ,they quickly performing your desired cast. The Same applies to all submerged lines.

C

 

Could you use a switch or roll cast to bring a sinking line to the surface then start your single/double spey or whatever? I have a sink tip (I realize a sink tip is different than a full sink) line for one of my single handed rods. If I have enough line out that lifting it straight out on the back cast would cause the fly to "pop" or suck all the line speed then I roll cast it to bring it up. As soon as the roll reaches my fly I begin my back cast. Could you do something similar to this with a Spey cast?

 

I'm also glad to see a couple other people cast weak hand up. Was getting worried that I was the only freak of nature. I think I will try to work on my cackhanded casting though. Can't hurt to have that extra option if the situation calls for it.

[ogilvie]

Useing different casts to bring the heavy line to the surface is whats needed to perform other casts that require an anchor of some sort. Normally a Roll cast,Snap T or Snap Z does the deed very well. Once you get used to watching the fly land you more often than not get into a position to manipulate the direction of the final stroke...180 degrees forward of your loop formation. The key to successful casting is not to panic but understand what you are doing and feeling the moment.

Your description of your style is correct(headscan),in doing a combination cast such as that, you are truely useing that tool(rod) to it's potential. Like a pole Vault athlete,applying the his weight to torque the pole(rod),loading it efficiently and off he goes. Once you begin to get the timing and undersatnding of what you are doing, simple strokes like the Torque Twist enter into the picture very often ,making the casts develope more efficiently and your physical output lessen.

C

[Hawgstoppah]

i prefer cack

 

No one jumped on this? Man... I hate to, too easy but Max come ON.. ya can't make it that easy.

 

Next time we fish I'm gonna stay farther away you cackhander!