A Few Basic Questions

[alhuger]

All,

 

I've recently picked up a spey rod and am quickly becoming obsessed with it. The down side to this is that I am a bit over burdened with questions and and have a pretty limited audience to ask questions to. Thankfully my wife knows nothing about spey casting or otherwise she'd likely be be further unimpressed by my hounding and then realize that my (already barely tolerated) fly fishing sickness has worsened! So folks, be patient with me while I ask some pretty simple questions.

 

Qustions:

 

1. I recently bought a TFO DeerCreek 5/6 on SilverDoc's and Toolman's suggestions. It's an awesome rod and both places I have taken it now for practice (in BC and here) have ended up catching me fish, on water I could otherwise never have hit. However I am still a little perplexed at the gain rating (in general actually). This rod is rated at 350 to 550 grains, but what does this variance mean? I am assuming at 350 I am at the min it will need to throw well and that at 550 I am approaching where it starts to throw poorly given the mass it's trying to push. What is the sweet spot? Is this easy to define?

 

2. Lines, grains... I recently bought an Airflow Delta spey line (7 wf) and it seemingly has no grain associated with it that I can find on the bow. Is this common on non sinking tip lines? Is there any way to figure it out? I am trying to add up my line and tip weight so I can move the 15 foot sinking tip I have with some degree of grace.

 

3. Long belly versus skagit etc. My goal this summer is to use this rod for both still and running water fishing but I am unsure what lines to invest in. I currently have about a 45 ft head on my line (I believe) and would like to move to a longer belly line. My goal here is to be able to push the line out and not have to strip back into 25 feet or so (I think this is the standard length of a skagit no?) in order to push it back out again. I also want to fish a sinking tip with a decent sized flys (think intruders) at times. Suggestions?

 

 

4. Polyleaders. These look like a merging of a leader made of different material which (unless your floating) also doubles as your sink tip system. Do you end up tying the fly right to this polyleader? At 15 bucks a pop this seems pretty pricey given you will be cutting it down, am I missing something?

 

-al

[speyghillie]

Hi Al,

The Spey bug has taken another victim, it really is an obsession that will only get worse STOP NOW , i feel bad for being involved in your addiction but it will get better with time.

You are among other Spey users so its all good, i know Toolman and Silver doctor will help you as best they can with that rod and line set up, i dont fish one so i cant help you with that set up.

As Most of the guys know i am not a Skagit fan, ok for learning but to much work for me, if you can cast a long belly you can cast a skagit, but its not always the other way.

Polyleaders come in different sink rates, when i fish them i add around 10 ft of mono fishing line just to keep the fly at a good distance from the line, as you would with a single handed rod.also it you get stuck on the bottom it is easier to break off some polyleaders have a 25-30lb core i never cut them just add a piece of fishing line to the end then your fly.

I cant help with the lines for that rod, but fishing sink tip with heavy fly, just slow the cast down and you will feel the weight of the line/fly, makes it easier to judge the amout of effort needed, let the rod do its thing.

Hopefully you will manage a days fishing with other Spey users, its becoming quite the habit in coo toon.

Speak to you later.

Gordon.

[cheeler]

I bought the same setup just after Gordon's school in September (Gordon: that shop should be sponsoring you given that there was at least 4 sales of spey rods within days of your school ). I've had good results fishing a streamer with a 5 to 10 ft sinking leader with four or five feet of tippet, depending on how deep I was fishing on the Bow. The sinking leaders I bought had loops at both ends to make it easy to change leaders.

 

Pages with info on the line:

http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/airflo/airflo-spey-lines.htm

http://www.flylines.com/Flylines_AirfloFly...y_DeltaSpey.cfm

[Mykiss]

My take on fishing the big stick on the is to have 2 types of line systems...Same as I run on BC steel waters...I run a Skagit for tips. From type 6 all the way to my 24ft big boys as I would like to see anyone cast 90+ ft with 15-20 Ft of t-14 with a long belly line 12 hours a day... For my dry lines to type 3 I run a midspey. Now all that is on BC waters where it is practical to cast 100ft+ of line.. Now on the bow my take is anything above a short head in the 50-55ft range is pointless. The sweet spot on the M/S is with 12" if running line out from the top guide now that is 66 ft of line out alot of line to fish on the bow. A long belly with a head of 85ft again loads best with just the head hanging out the top guide thats 85ft again alot of line to fish the bow...My skagit set up that I run loads the rod up best with 15 ft of running line out the top guide add in 27 ft of head then 15 ft of tip thats 57 ft then the rest of the line I shoot...much bigger window to fish short and long range...Yes mid bellies to long bellies have there place with light tips and rivers such as the Thompson where you fish a fixed length of line and its either to cold to strip line or your too lazy, but on the bow I would get a skagit and go from there.

[speyghillie]

Hi Mykiss,

Glad you like the short set up on the Bow, there are so many short lines, skagit , scandi, short Spey

You are absolutely right about throwing a long line with 15-20 ft of t-14, but if you want to fish a long or short line and deep, a full sink line is easier than tips.

Tips or weighted flies can be horrible to fish with on a floating line, a full sunk line, long or short is much easier, but i find Skagit lines just to short and there are so many choices out there, i agree that 90ft of line would be over kill on the Bow, but if like to fish 50 to 60ft there are plenty of lines in then range that will turn over big flies ans save the fingers with the cold and all that thin line nearly cutting you fingers off, or getting caught on you clothing or any little twig around.

 

Cheeler.

Good to see you havin some fun with your new rod, take it easy with the TFO and heavy tips, hopefully i will get back to COO TOON , before i go home to the Spey, right now i am fishing small lakes in the Vernon area, off to fish the Island rivers next week, so far so good i had 11 rainbows in a small lake a couple of days ago on a hears ear gold head.

Cheers Gordon.

[alhuger]

Hi Mykiss,

Glad you like the short set up on the Bow, there are so many short lines, skagit , scandi, short Spey

You are absolutely right about throwing a long line with 15-20 ft of t-14, but if you want to fish a long or short line and deep, a full sink line is easier than tips.

Tips or weighted flies can be horrible to fish with on a floating line, a full sunk line, long or short is much easier, but i find Skagit lines just to short and there are so many choices out there, i agree that 90ft of line would be over kill on the Bow, but if like to fish 50 to 60ft there are plenty of lines in then range that will turn over big flies ans save the fingers with the cold and all that thin line nearly cutting you fingers off, or getting caught on you clothing or any little twig around.

 

Cheeler.

Good to see you havin some fun with your new rod, take it easy with the TFO and heavy tips, hopefully i will get back to COO TOON , before i go home to the Spey, right now i am fishing small lakes in the Vernon area, off to fish the Island rivers next week, so far so good i had 11 rainbows in a small lake a couple of days ago on a hears ear gold head.

Cheers Gordon.

 

 

Everyone,

 

Thanks for the advice, it was just what I was looking for. With regards to long lines, the Airflo site states that their long belly line is not a great choice for people new to spey casting, any idea why? I am assuming simply because it's a challenge to move all of that head if you are not used to the cast. However, if I only have as much line out as I can handle with the long belly still throw the same as the mid belly I have? I would like to practice with both if I can.

 

-al

[speyghillie]

Hi Al,

Like all sports start short, and distance will come with practice, like Mykiss states big distance is not needed on the Bow, also the 5 times rule is a good basis, in other words, the maxamim line will be 5 times the rod length, but that the max not min.

My best advice would be to meet up if you can with some of the guys that speycast the Bow, mykiss, Toolman, Silverdoctor and some of the other guys will help out i,m sure.

Practice single, double and any other casts with a short line, you are right about the longer the head length being harder to change position, long line on a 12ft 6in rod has its limits, a fishing rod is a spring and lever thats all, they all have there limits, start short and practice all the rest will fall into place.

Gordon.