Massive Steelhead

[pkk]

Thought this might get some of your attention by posting it here. Was originally posted in news discussion and current issues.

 

It kills me that there are 200 plus people that have viewed this thread and only 7 responses. In the photos section any threads regarding steelhead had way more views and also way more responses. most of the responses were : I love that place, wicked pics,cant wait to go back, maybe one day. Well!!!!

 

Maybe one day you might not have that pleasure!! Please read it and send emails to the B.C govt. Rightyeegs is right the squeaky wheel does get the grease.

 

env.minister@gov.bc.ca , TCA.Minister@gov.bc.ca , adolan@islandnet.com , Paddy.Hirshfield@gov.bc.ca

 

PLEASE SEND EMAILS

 

anyone have any connections local news papers,tv reporters maybe that might help some. most people couldnt care about fishing but it is beyond that! ITS ABOUT BEING A CANADIAN, YET BEING TREATED LIKE AN ALIEN (american, european, etc). WE ALREADY FUND THE MANAGEMENT OF THESE THRU FEDERAL TAXES.

 

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

PKK

[BBBrownie]

Hell yeah,

I agree, I've sent some letters, everyone else that cares about the right as a canadian to fish steel should write in. I'm not sure about the latest version of the AMP, but past versions had a hierarchy of angler rights to classified waters, in this hierarchy, as a guided canadian we fall in front of non-resident aliens, but as an unguided canadian, a non-resident alien has more rights to the fishery than I do. WTF? So, if an NRA has the money, he/she can buy the right to use a resource that I, as a middle class Canadian, could be excluded from if I don't pay what I deem exclusive? Obvious slant towards a certain industry here...In the future the fever may be a tough deal for those of us who are more interested in fishing than working (unless I move to BC). As an Albertan, I want more than 8 days of steel per year, and I don't need a guide all the time. Letters are easy, if you want input, then write.

[dutchie]

i can't speak for the rest of the guys on here , but i already sent a email , i have been following this for sometime , and it's on another forum that i visit lots , it's a sad day as them guides are pushing really hard to have it all for themselves , NO NRA at all , even if your a canadian , oh forgot to add '' unless you fish with one of them crooked guides"

 

and as pissed as everyone seems to be , don't look like it will get stoped , the hidden story i'm hearing from phone calls is , on the group of people making the decisions to be passed or push through is some guides , i think 3 , and some locals , 3 i think , someone from the min's office , someone from the town bussiness , can't really remember all the numbers , but the jif of it is the the locals were ex guides , so they kinda got it stacked in there favour

 

i'm still holding onto the thought that they won't fool the people from B.C on what they are trying to do , i also hear another meeting is coming on it

 

[dutchie]

if you ever fished for steelhead or even thought about going into B.C to try it , then you really really owe it to yourself to read this bunch of posts , it will take you some time as 17 pages , but you will see and understand what can happen when you let some guides get to much power ,

 

enjoy http://speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=30954 and please write a letter , only way to stop it

 

 

[bhurt]

Hey Pete,

 

I have been doing some reserch on the subject since I really do not know much about what is happening (only second hand information) once I get the FACTS then I will draft a letter that I will be sending in the next couple of days, thanks for all the information.

[pkk]

nice to see that there at least 3 people out of 217 views that responded.

 

thanks to those 3

 

Peter

[bhurt]

I would of replied back sooner in the news and discussion but like I said I obviously do not know a ton about the subject and instead of me opening up my big mouth and saying something that was incorrect I deceided to not to say anything until I had all my facts.

 

Pete,

 

I have noticerd that there isn't really one place to go to get alot of information from, I know alot of the forums have discussions but is the information on these boards correct or are they what people think they are? I guess my question is where can a guy go to to get alot of information about this. I have heard that the lodges out in BC terms everyone not from BC as "Aliens" which has me red in the coller cause last time I checked I've lived in this country since 88' and am considered by our goverment as a canadain citizen.

[headscan]

Link to the report:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/skeena/qws/

 

Link to the other discussion thread where the link to the report was already posted:

http://flyfishcalgary.com/board/index.php?showtopic=10571

 

The exclusions hierarchy:

1. Non Guided Non Canadian

2. Non Guided Non BC

3. Guided Non Canadian

4. Guided Non BC

5. BC Anglers, guided and non-guided

 

So basically a non-Canadian who is guided gets preference over a non-guided Canadian. Complete and utter bullshit. Now try to convince me that this whole thing isn't just about guides trying to put money in their pockets.

[Mykiss]

bhurt thats never stopped you before..... anyhow if you want to know the short and skinny of it Peter has pretty much explained the recommendations on how they have NRC's and NRA's all grouped together as the first one's to regulate...be it lottery system, limited day licence whatever else they have figured out to regulate the waters. You can write something like this if you want a generic letter.....

 

I must write to you and voice my uneasiness towards the new Recommendation of the working groups on the Skeena Quality Waters Strategy Angling Management Plan. I am from Alberta and feel that there is haste from alot of working groups to move this plan through without fully understanding the issues at hand. I have been fishing the Skeena and its tributary's since ????. I have spent countless numbers of dollars for accomodations's, fuel, groceries, licence's, and apres after the fishing day at the pubs. My outstanding concern with the new Recommendations is that us other "Canadians" are being grouped with the NRA's being Americans, Europeans ect. They do not pay Federal tax's, we in Alberta or any other province do. We pay for the anadromous fish while it swims off our coast. We have stake in this resource. They the NRA's do not have as much stake in the Federal resource. To alienate fellow Canadians like the proposed recommendations is preposterous. If this was to get legislated as is you can never remove this blemish that will be felt across Canada towards fellow "Canadians". I do not think we want to single out fellow Canadians to fulfill a agenda based Working groups idea's. I would first start off by restricting the NRA to the amount of rod days he has on the rivers. That will keep a sense of peace amongst fellow Canadians and create a dynamic system moving NRA's throughout the system. Stopping camping of spots, illegal guiding and crowding on the rivers. I fully acknowledge we have a great resource in the Skeena system, additional cost for a Skeena steelhead tag with the funds going back enhancing the fishery is a great idea. But again I feel Alienated that the NRC may be paying 100-200 Dollars compared to the meager 10 dollars for residents. If that is the case than the net worth of the Skeena and her Tributary's is set on the NRC and the NRC acutally paying the premium to fish this river system, not the resident. Meaning if put through we as NRA's and NRC's set the precedence on the focus on the Skeena as the major stake holders creating the dollars that goes into the fishery. I do agree we as NRC's should pay more than residents and NRA's more than NRC's but by 10 times as much I think not. I strongly feel that if the recommendations go through that you will lose anglers to other systems taking much needed Support, focus and money off the Skeena and the towns around it.

 

 

Im out......oh Peter wheres the pict of the Brute??? was hoping to see some steel!!!

[bhurt]

bhurt thats never stopped you before..... anyhow if you want to know the short and skinny of it Peter has pretty much explained the recommendations on how they have NRC's and NRA's all grouped together as the first one's to regulate...be it lottery system, limited day licence whatever else they have figured out to regulate the waters. You can write something like this if you want a generic letter.....

 

I must write to you and voice my uneasiness towards the new Recommendation of the working groups on the Skeena Quality Waters Strategy Angling Management Plan. I am from Alberta and feel that there is haste from alot of working groups to move this plan through without fully understanding the issues at hand. I have been fishing the Skeena and its tributary's since ????. I have spent countless numbers of dollars for accomodations's, fuel, groceries, licence's, and apres after the fishing day at the pubs. My outstanding concern with the new Recommendations is that us other "Canadians" are being grouped with the NRA's being Americans, Europeans ect. They do not pay Federal tax's, we in Alberta or any other province do. We pay for the anadromous fish while it swims off our coast. We have stake in this resource. They the NRA's do not have as much stake in the Federal resource. To alienate fellow Canadians like the proposed recommendations is preposterous. If this was to get legislated as is you can never remove this blemish that will be felt across Canada towards fellow "Canadians". I do not think we want to single out fellow Canadians to fulfill a agenda based Working groups idea's. I would first start off by restricting the NRA to the amount of rod days he has on the rivers. That will keep a sense of peace amongst fellow Canadians and create a dynamic system moving NRA's throughout the system. Stopping camping of spots, illegal guiding and crowding on the rivers. I fully acknowledge we have a great resource in the Skeena system, additional cost for a Skeena steelhead tag with the funds going back enhancing the fishery is a great idea. But again I feel Alienated that the NRC may be paying 100-200 Dollars compared to the meager 10 dollars for residents. If that is the case than the net worth of the Skeena and her Tributary's is set on the NRC and the NRC acutally paying the premium to fish this river system, not the resident. Meaning if put through we as NRA's and NRC's set the precedence on the focus on the Skeena as the major stake holders creating the dollars that goes into the fishery. I do agree we as NRC's should pay more than residents and NRA's more than NRC's but by 10 times as much I think not. I strongly feel that if the recommendations go through that you will lose anglers to other systems taking much needed Support, focus and money off the Skeena and the towns around it.

 

 

Im out......oh Peter wheres the pict of the Brute??? was hoping to see some steel!!!

 

LOL, got me good there, but with this it is more of a seriouse subject and effects alot of people, not justthe people that live outside of the BC but the guides that operate inside of BC, cause as I understand it the rivers the lodges are on would be controlled by them and the other guides would be left out to hang which is just dirty if you ask me.

 

Also I like to have all my facts before I draft a letter as a letter that has facts will diffently be looked at more then one that was written in crayons, if you know what I mean.

 

Thanks for the info.

[Guest phartknocker]

I have nothing nice to say, but good luck. I replaced my heartfelt rant with this positive sentiment.

It's all about choices, and I choose to fish where I'm welcome.

 

Cheers

[Ricinus]

I have nothing nice to say, but good luck. I replaced my heartfelt rant with this positive sentiment.

It's all about choices, and I choose to fish where I'm welcome.

 

Cheers

 

Nicely put. My sentiments exactly

 

Regards Mike

[Mykiss]

I have nothing nice to say, but good luck. I replaced my heartfelt rant with this positive sentiment.

It's all about choices, and I choose to fish where I'm welcome.

 

Cheers

 

 

Nicely put. My sentiments exactly

 

Regards Mike

 

 

So than a question.....After this fight is done and this AMP with the current recommendations does not get legislated will you guys fish the Skeena and her tribs? Again you say you have the choice its easy to choose on other people's shoulders!!!!!!!!!!!

[pkk]

I fully understand someone not really caring about the issue if they have never had the pleasure of being up there. If you read the proposal you will see it isnt all about the fish. It is about being a CANADIAN and not being treated like one. Plus if you fish in B.C at all, one must be carefull because who knows what kind of precedence it might set. Even if you dont have the desire to fish there it sure would be nice for your kids to have that choice. Turning a blind eye doesnt solve problems.

 

PK

[Ricinus]

Rightyeegs and pkk,

 

I've fished the Skeena drainage twice a year for 20+yrs and this year is the first time I have felt unwelcome. The common complaint was about us "azzhole Albertans" with our oil dollars figuring we have a right to do anything we want. This opinion was from people we have known for a long time and consider friends. We rant and rave when ever anybody looks at our oil revenues, but if B.C. wants to protect its resource we cry foul. As for me writing letters, I have already done that LAST YEAR, and depending on what portions of the AMP -if any- are enacted will dictate whether I go back.

 

There are some major problems with the number of fisherman trying to access the rivers with very few access points and while I disagree with the locals about solutions, I can see their points. The guides are a different story.

 

Regards Mike

[Mykiss]

Rightyeegs and pkk,

 

I've fished the Skeena drainage twice a year for 20+yrs and this year is the first time I have felt unwelcome. The common complaint was about us "azzhole Albertans" with our oil dollars figuring we have a right to do anything we want. This opinion was from people we have known for a long time and consider friends. We rant and rave when ever anybody looks at our oil revenues, but if B.C. wants to protect its resource we cry foul. As for me writing letters, I have already done that LAST YEAR, and depending on what portions of the AMP -if any- are enacted will dictate whether I go back.

 

There are some major problems with the number of fisherman trying to access the rivers with very few access points and while I disagree with the locals about solutions, I can see their points. The guides are a different story.

 

Regards Mike

 

After 20 years you write one letter....and throw in the towel....... I have fished the Skeena system for 10 years and in those 10 years never once felt welcomed by the residents...you know what I DON"T GIVE A _ _ CK! I have fished it in blown out conditions...the locals in the Timmy Ho's laughed at us every morning asking us "rookie" Albertians if we are hitting fish.......well as a matter of fact .......yes punter while your stuffing your fat ass face with that jelly-roll I'm poaching your water and hitting untouched fish....I don't care if I'm welcomed there...hell to half the people on the bow I'm unwelcome...maybe I'm just a dink but again I don't care...they have Steel and thats what I'm after... not a hug from the locals.

[bhurt]

After 20 years you write one letter....and throw in the towel....... I have fished the Skeena system for 10 years and in those 10 years never once felt welcomed by the residents...you know what I DON"T GIVE A _ _ CK! I have fished it in blown out conditions...the locals in the Timmy Ho's laughed at us every morning asking us "rookie" Albertians if we are hitting fish.......well as a matter of fact .......yes punter while your stuffing your fat ass face with that jelly-roll I'm poaching your water and hitting untouched fish....I don't care if I'm welcomed there...hell to half the people on the bow I'm unwelcome...maybe I'm just a dink but again I don't care...they have Steel and thats what I'm after... not a hug from the locals.

 

I agree with this 100%

 

After going through alot of the information that was provided I was shocked to see the intrest of the people that are pushing this through has absoultly nothing to do with conservation at all it is all about the mighty doller, espically if the rod days go to a acution. Like it was put to me by a friend, if a large company or lodge that has many investors deciedes to buy all the rod days at a high price (they can afford it when they have many rich foriegn investors) and then when the local guide trying to make a living has to buy through that lodge which has made the rod day they own much more expensive it basically forces out the smaller guys cause they can not afford it. This sounds too much like a monopy and isn't there a law against that sort of thing.

 

If there is in fact huge issuse with the steelhead and the amount of fishing beeing done they why not close the river down completly, I would think that would be the best soultion, but as I see it the greedy lodges needs to keep their investors happy year in year out, and could poitentally lose their reveune with any type of clouser, and they call us Albertains greedy with our oil money.....

 

I have dropped three letters (that rightyeegs for the letter much easier then me trying to draft a letter myself) in the mail box today and when I can buy some more stamps latter today I will be dropping a couple more.

 

I have never fished in BC or fished for stellhead and might never get a chance to do i, but since I am after all a canadain citizen I think I should be allowed to have the same rights as another fellow canadain no matter where in this country I fish, yes I migth have to buy a licence which I agree with but just because some foriegn person with more money then me should not have more right to fish water's in my home country then me.

[Guest phartknocker]

I said good luck I'm done. I don't enjoy fisherman mud sling fests as part of my sport anymore.

 

I am a cutty fisherman; I turned my back on BC over the Kootenays and feel terrific about doing my part to reduce fishing pressure in their province. But it's more than that. They openly disrespect Albertans. As a Manitoban living in Alberta 25+ years I've taken enough crap, which I fish to get away from. No I won't fish BC ever which sucks cuz my brother lives there. I also have a ton of friends and memories there. Seriously how does a guide who smashes the resource for anybody disrespect a visitor to their province. The whole scene is Bizarre.

 

And to cut a little deeper when are the Steel heads going to give this system a break? Sure try steelheading, try the Skeena, but then spread out & step out of the line up. But no, bigger rods better flies better hooks $5000 a year and 2 weeks every year is the progression of this disease. For the most part I see nothing but selfish egoic addictive behavior manifesting as destruction of the resource. Some folks just never get over big rainbows. Squabling about your right to pound these overpressured spawning fish is not sport. If Alberta and US anglers boycott they'll get a humble slice of Karma pie.

 

My guess is this will all blow over and they'll host the Canadian Fly fishing championships there in 5 years. And most of you will go and pay while stocks and experience decline

 

:derby racer:

It's all yours, and I want none of it for myself. And have a nice life.

 

[BBBrownie]

I said good luck I'm done. I don't enjoy fisherman mud sling fests as part of my sport anymore.

 

I am a cutty fisherman; I turned my back on BC over the Kootenays and feel terrific about doing my part to reduce fishing pressure in their province. But it's more than that. They openly disrespect Albertans. As a Manitoban living in Alberta 25+ years I've taken enough crap, which I fish to get away from. No I won't fish BC ever which sucks cuz my brother lives there. I also have a ton of friends and memories there. Seriously how does a guide who smashes the resource for anybody disrespect a visitor to their province. The whole scene is Bizarre.

 

And to cut a little deeper when are the Steel heads going to give this system a break? Sure try steelheading, try the Skeena, but then spread out & step out of the line up. But no, bigger rods better flies better hooks $5000 a year and 2 weeks every year is the progression of this disease. For the most part I see nothing but selfish egoic addictive behavior manifesting as destruction of the resource. Some folks just never get over big rainbows. Squabling about your right to pound these overpressured spawning fish is not sport. If Alberta and US anglers boycott they'll get a humble slice of Karma pie.

 

My guess is this will all blow over and they'll host the Canadian Fly fishing championships there in 5 years. And most of you will go and pay while stocks and experience decline. :derby racer:

 

It's all yours, and I want none of it for myself. And have a nice life.

 

Wow. Harsh AND misguided. Taking personal shots won't get your arguement any respect.

Although every angler has his/her own approach and philosophy, I don't believe that ego figures in any way into my angling philosophy and if you feel otherwise then you don't know me. I catch steelhead (sometimes, more often than not I fish for steelhead without catching anything) because I am intrigued by their inherent and individual beauty. Never have caught two that look the same. While playing and releasing a steelhead I like to dream about where the fish has been - Perhaps coastal Japan, Kamchatka, Aleutian Islands? I wonder what it has seen in the ocean, what it has eaten on its journeys, what it has escaped and surpassed in order to get into the systems I frequent...

Although it is easy to say it is just a rainbow when you've never interacted with one of these beauts (I assume), and genetically is a rainbow trout, it is the huge difference in life history that separates these from a rainbow. I often catch rainbows in the same systems as steelhead and can tell you there is a world of difference, and never any question as to whether you have caught a 'bow or a steelhead.

Phart, I don't "squable " to fish, I stand up for my right to be treated as a Canadian. It really isn't much of an inconvenience or energy drain for me to right a letter and send it to a few people, I believe it is my duty and something I do for any casue I am passionate about.

I don't "pound" overpressured fish; numbers are stable in many river systems relative to avialable historic data, take a look at the Tyee test fishery data, last year was one of the best for the Skeena on record. I agree that there are issues in most rivers with depressed stocks, catch and release fishing is not the culprit, development and industry and commercial netting, climate change are the real issues. I am proud to say that I am confident that every steelehad I have ever released likely survived to further its race. Bigger rods and better hooks are not the problem facing steelhead, defeatest attitudes and conflicting values are. By the way, did you know that westslope cutthroat are now threatened in Alberta, perhaps you should consider stopping your practice of pounding these over pressured jems? Or head to BC where they are plentiful...just saying...

[Guest phartknocker]

I've caught skads of steel. I miss Gerrards & Kootenay Lake even more. It's a beautiful province with incredible fishing and wonderful people. Some of the guides are truly the finest people you ever want to meet.

 

 

Kudos to the anglers who defend freedom and equality for all Canadians AND unguided anglers.

 

One man's pleasant line up by the fire is another man's gong show.

 

FER SURE cutty's receive WAY to much pressure. I don't fish them anymore, sacrifice I'm willing to make.

 

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/species-especes/s...efardee-eng.htm

http://www.water-matters.org/node/74

 

Glad every one you catch lives.... but with all respect it's a blood sport on spawning fish and C&R kills fish bro.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I would like to put forth my extreme displeasure and disagreement with plans to make an average Canadian a second class citizen in our angling rights.

 

While I do not currently fish for Steelhead it was always something I wanted to try. To think that myself and my kids would have to pay someone for the right to fish is ludicrous or denied the right due to disciminary quotas just because I live in Alberta is ridiculous. This whole effort is one giant method to capitalize the public fishery and make what was once fun for your average person to more of an exlusionary system. I can not believe this is happening. Ocean going fish are federal fish. How can a small vocal groups of local anglers and guides trying desperately to throw every excuse imaginable forward in order to give them basically get carte blanche to fish when they want with limited competition.

 

As a trained fisheries biologist…I can not see any reasonable justification. If we are trying to protect the fishery…how about stopping guiding all together. Remove that user group? They don't generate as much economic value as the dozens of people that this regulation will turn away. If locals feel obliged to want all the fish for themselves…how will they feel about a draw system in which they are treated equally with the rest of Canada?

 

Quality of angler experience is very subjective and taking one groups preference over another is a terrible management strategy. If the experience is so bad…then why is it people keep coming?

 

LETTER SENT

[Guest phartknocker]

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must write to you and voice my displeasure towards the new recommendations of the working groups on the Skeena Quality Waters Strategy Angling Management Plan.

 

Any measures put in place to manage a fishery must be fair and reasonable, and treat Canadians as equal partners in stewardship of the resource. The current strategy proposed discriminates against the common angler and unguided fisherman in a manner which detracts from your province’s international reputation as a tourist destination.

 

Please consider ALL of your local economy, which rest assured, will suffer if an unreasonable proposal which prioritizes guides over visiting anglers is enacted.

 

LETTER sent too.

 

received this response from Barry Penner so they got it.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write to me. Due to the volume of incoming messages, this is an automated response to let you know my office has received your email.

 

& yer right, this issue is for all anglers... even grumpy ex cutty guys.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[BBBrownie]

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must write to you and voice my displeasure towards the new recommendations of the working groups on the Skeena Quality Waters Strategy Angling Management Plan.

 

Any measures put in place to manage a fishery must be fair and reasonable, and treat Canadians as equal partners in stewardship of the resource. The current strategy proposed discriminates against the common angler and unguided fisherman in a manner which detracts from your province’s international reputation as a tourist destination.

 

Please consider ALL of your local economy, which rest assured, will suffer if an unreasonable proposal which prioritizes guides over visiting anglers is enacted.

 

LETTER sent too.

 

received this response from Barry Penner so they got it.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write to me. Due to the volume of incoming messages, this is an automated response to let you know my office has received your email.

 

& yer right, this issue is for all anglers... even grumpy ex cutty guys.

 

Cheers

 

Nicely done!

Now none of us have any excuse not to write, I am glad that you were able to throw your beliefs behind something you don't even intending on using. If more of us could follow your lead (those of us who have a problem with this heirarchy of priority) we may actually be heard.