Line Issues?

[brownsbask]

Hello, I've got a question for the experts...

 

I picked up a new rod this spring, and 8'6" 5Wt Redington CPS, and then kind of cheaped out on the line... I guess I was feeling guilty on what I was spending on the rest of the package.

 

I went with Rio Mainstream weight forward floating line, and have not been all that happy with it. However, what I am unsure of is if I am unhappy with the line or the rod, or the weight of the line for the rod.

 

I feel as though the line is 'sluggish' to load the rod, and I am only able to cast line the distance I cast with my slower action cortland 5wt, and another somewhat inexpensive line (type I forget). I have put the older line from my cortland setup on the CPS, and the feeling does not change. But then that line is 8 years old.

 

The new line has also picked up quite a bit of dirt in the first 7 or 8 days on the water this year. This is a dirty discoloration of the line, that does not come off when I clean the line and dress it with line dressing, which I have done a couple times. Is this normal? I don't recall it happening as fast with my other lines.

 

So- my main questions, should I cut my losses and go for a premium line like Rio Gold? Will this make a difference? Could the rod prefer a higher or lower weight line? Any input is much appreciated, if anyone made it though this novella of mine.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[cheeler]

The fast action of the new rod is probably what you're feeling - you will need to adjust your casting stroke, find a friend with a heavier line or take it to a fly shop to try a higher weight or premium line. The cheaper lines will still have a decent taper and will meet the AFTMA standards, they probably just have cheaper materials (hence the discoloration).

[brownsbask]

The fast action of the new rod is probably what you're feeling - you will need to adjust your casting stroke, find a friend with a heavier line or take it to a fly shop to try a higher weight or premium line. The cheaper lines will still have a decent taper and will meet the AFTMA standards, they probably just have cheaper materials (hence the discoloration).

 

Thanks cheeler.

 

Forgot to add above, my other rod is a 3wt fast action, so I have some experience with faster action rods, though when comparing them the 3wt does seem a bit slower in comparison to the 5. You could be right about needing to adjust my cast.

 

One of my thoughts was that the 'coating' on the line could be sub par, indicated by discoloration, and manifesting as a reluctance to shoot through the guides. Anyone know if this is a reasonable hypothesis? Or am I grasping at unlikely theories that take the responsibility off my technique?

[darrinhurst]

All I know is that the cheap line that came with my original 5wt outfit was crap compared to the upgraded line I purchased. Made a world of difference.

 

To me at least.

[Jayhad]

Now I am not a pro, but I do use Rio lines 95% of the time a lot of those times on Redington sticks. I have used a Mainstream and Gold on the same rod (a 6wt)and the mainstream doesn't come close to the Gold in line control or castability. What type of fishing are you doing? if you are solely using this rod for nymphing the Rio Nymph Line is pretty good. The Rio Grand casts wicked on the new CPXs and other fast action rods. The point at which your rod loads with the Grands is quite noticable. Having the head all jammed up in 38' compared to most lines at 45-50' will make you feel like you are a pro caster and it crushes wind.

[maxwell]

like others have mentioned a fast action rod usually requires a line size heavier too feel equal load of a slower action rod.. some people even use two line sizes up! i like the rio grande.. the gold is alright aswell... the mainstream line is a lower end - midrange line with a fairly simple taper so she wont cast the smae as a more aggresive taper like the grand would.. you may notice that lighter lines dirty up quicker mainly because they show dirt easier... my white lines after a day look grose!

[brownsbask]

Thanks for the replies, I'll probably look into the Rio Grand, and maybe in 6 weight. I am fishing dries whenever it is remotely sensible to do so, so I'll probably avoid the nymph line for that reason. Knowing that it is likely the line itself is causing at least some of my frustration is a good start.

 

The dirtiness wasn't so much of a concern, as long as this is something to expect with all lines and not indicative of other issues.

 

I'm a bit annoyed at myself for dropping all that coin on the setup and then skimping on the line... a $40 lesson.

 

Another somewhat related question - I just had my 3 weight Legend Ultra warrantied, and I am putting it back into service. The line on there is probably 7 or 8 years old, but I don't see any obvious cracks. It does seem to have quite a bit of memory compared to my newer line. So, has anyone been able to use 8 year old line (used heavily for 2 years then stored on the reel for 6) or should I just go get new line straight-off? And then does anyone have recommendations for a 3 weight line that will see it's action on smaller creeks? St Croix calls the action of the rod 'fast' but it feels more like mod. fast.

 

Thanks

[cheeler]

The Rio Grand is already a half size heavier than the AFTMA standard - try before you buy if you can. I have their selective trout line on my 3, and it's nice for dries and smaller hopper/dropper rigs (no size 6 foam and deer hair stonefly imitations!). But if your old line works, save yourself the money and stretch out the coils.

[jack]

Free advise: Do the research on the lines you are contemplating and the alternatives. The Rio specs will show you what will cast the best and why.

 

http://www.rioproducts.com/photos/file/RIO...ng_08_specs.pdf

 

Rio Gold was developed for Sage's fast action, instant rookie gratification casting. Fast action rod, combined with a super weight forward head will allow a newbie to cast 60' on the first try, without having to learn anything: "Wow, whatta great setup !!"

But, experienced casters can use the same lines for punching wind with their "rocket rods", also.

 

Don't leave lines on reels for 6 years. The PVC degrades. If you put lines away, take them off the reel, coil them and put them in a ziplock and park them out of the light in a cool/dry storage.

j

[brownsbask]

Don't leave lines on reels for 6 years. The PVC degrades. If you put lines away, take them off the reel, coil them and put them in a ziplock and park them out of the light in a cool/dry storage.

 

Heh... yeah. You can blame that on leaving at the end of summer 2001 for undergrad, and sort of forgetting about fly fishing altogether until I moved west. I'm - for better or worse - much more obsessive with my gear now...

 

I've been looking around Rio's site, and think I have it more or less figured out for lines. Though I'll give a shot at throwing the line before I buy.

 

Thanks for all the input so far.

 

[theboy]

Go to a local shop and try some lines out....I know fish tales has a ton of demo lines and it is worth every second to try before you buy.

[brownsbask]

Go to a local shop and try some lines out....I know fish tales has a ton of demo lines and it is worth every second to try before you buy.

 

I'll try (and I recognize the benefit of doing so), but I'm not sure where I can try lines in Edmonton. I'll have to call around, but my options are more or less limited to WSS or the Fishin Hole.

[Harps]

I went with Rio Mainstream weight forward floating line, and have not been all that happy with it. However, what I am unsure of is if I am unhappy with the line or the rod, or the weight of the line for the rod.

 

I feel as though the line is 'sluggish' to load the rod, and I am only able to cast line the distance I cast with my slower action cortland 5wt, and another somewhat inexpensive line (type I forget). I have put the older line from my cortland setup on the CPS, and the feeling does not change. But then that line is 8 years old.

 

So- my main questions, should I cut my losses and go for a premium line like Rio Gold? Will this make a difference? Could the rod prefer a higher or lower weight line? Any input is much appreciated, if anyone made it though this novella of mine.

 

Cheers.

 

 

Don't get a new line yet... the problem is with the casting and loading the rod... not the cost of the line.

 

How much experience casting do you have?

If you can hit the Northern Lights fly club and see if somebody else can try it and give you a lesson.

Try slowing down your stroke and applying less power... let the rod do the work, it might change how it feels.

 

 

The other thing is... a heavier line will load the rod at a shorter distance... if a lighter line is used, you casting stroke has to be good to prevent the line from collapsing before you get the distance to load the rod.

If the rod feels sluggish when casting if you put a heavier line on, you'll only make it worse.

But a heavier line might make closer fishing easier (it will load the rod to cast those short casts).

 

 

And if you do get the Rio Grand you don't have to get a weight up... a 5 Rio grand is actually a 5.5 or 6 (closer to 6wt).

[brownsbask]

Don't get a new line yet... the problem is with the casting and loading the rod... not the cost of the line.

 

How much experience casting do you have?

If you can hit the Northern Lights fly club and see if somebody else can try it and give you a lesson.

Try slowing down your stroke and applying less power... let the rod do the work, it might change how it feels.

 

 

The other thing is... a heavier line will load the rod at a shorter distance... if a lighter line is used, you casting stroke has to be good to prevent the line from collapsing before you get the distance to load the rod.

If the rod feels sluggish when casting if you put a heavier line on, you'll only make it worse.

But a heavier line might make closer fishing easier (it will load the rod to cast those short casts).

 

 

And if you do get the Rio Grand you don't have to get a weight up... a 5 Rio grand is actually a 5.5 or 6 (closer to 6wt).

 

I have been fly fishing for a decade now (with the aforementioned break in the middle), and do think I have a good handle on the casting aspect, however there is always room for improvement I realize. That is a good thought having a more experienced caster try my rod and line.

 

My frustration with the way the rod and line have been behaving is somewhat subtle, as I am still able to cast to a reasonable distance (thought not what I would like), it is just the 'sluggishness' through the guides themselves that I originally mentioned that grates on me.

 

I think it is becoming clear that what I really need to do is try a few different lines side by side with my current line to see if I notice a difference.

[theiceman2]

Absolutly stupid question from me here, but I had a shop in town do it to me. "Is your line on the right way?" Not to say who but a shop rigged my reel backwards when I bought my new rod a few months. The rod is a very similar action to the Reddington and I thought it was the action on the rod that I wasn't used to. I noticed when I was cleaning my line there was no weight forward section on the line......they put it on backwards and the new rod was casting like a piece of timber. I fixed the floating line direction and this thing casts like a rocket!

 

Leason learned.....Don't take the obvious for granted.

[jack]

Before you buy another line, take about 70' off the reel, clean it and treat it with vinyl protectant(any auto stuff you have) allow to dry, then try casting. If the line is improved then the finish of the line is suspect. If not, take a magnifying glass and check your rod guides for abrasive scoring. From personal experience, I was not really satisfied with my casting, some years ago and on closer examination found my rod guides had been scratched up pretty good from using dirty fly lines. Ended up changing out all my rod guides and painful lesson learned.

Just a thought.

j

[Hawgstoppah]

I use SA Mastery series on my 3WT legend ultra (same rod as you have) and I love it for dries. Matter of fact I use it on the bow too.... no more spooked fish either I can work a fish until I catch it... which you wont be able to do too often with your 5WT in quiet shallow water.

 

If all else fails on that 5WT... I had a guy once tell me he was having a similar problem and that he bought this line grease and applied it before fishing each trip (seems like a lot of work) but to him it made all the difference..

 

what are the line guides made of on your rod? if there cheaply made steel, maybe replace them with nickel/titanium

[brownsbask]

Thanks for all the ideas guys, I'll try the vinyl protectant, grease, whatever over the summer and if I get completely fed up I'll just replace the line. The guides are Fuji SIC something or other, and look pretty much brand new still.

 

I took out the 3wt with the old line, and it still casts beautifully and floats like a cork. Lee Wulff makes a durable line...

[chiasson]

I find that some lines just don't work for certain applications. I've made mistakes in buying lines. For example, GPX just doesn't want to work well for me as a nymph line. I've tried it in two different weights and it feels sluggish and won't shoot for me on the roll cast. However, it feels great when casting traditionally with dries or small streamers. The more experienced I get at FF I find that having the right line for a particular setup makes all the difference in the overall experience. I never thought I'd be such a gear/techno junkie with FF. Researching online forums for lines that others have found to work well on your setup is a great resource.

 

p.s. I'm far from a pro.