Courtland 444 Sylk

[Bowcane]

What do you think of this line? Heard good and bad, specifically it doesn't float that well,needs dressing every half hour, you might as welll use real silk lines if so, but does cast well. Any advantages over the peach coloured 444? (this is what most cane rodders use back east, so old habits die hard) Worth the extra cash?

[Ricinus]

I tried in a WF4F on a 7 '6" rod. It seemed a little light like somewhere between a 3 and 4 wt. It was one of the original lines and had the stickiness problems. I found it cast just fine and didn't notice any problems with the tip sinking. The color does look nice against bamboo. Still love my Cortland Peach tho.

 

Regards Mike

[SilverDoctor]

I'm using it in a 4 and 5 wt for several of my grass rods. Like it it as it has a more traditional diameter mimicking silk line that is well suited for bamboo or classic fiberglass rods. These rods have slower action and need to be lined differently with a gentle presentation line. Traditional silk line designs have long front tapers and longer level tips You need to slow down your casting for a full lay out of line.

 

Earlier bamboo fly rods have smaller guides and it's just the ticket for these. It floats well but you have to know a bit about classic presentation and floating or greased leaders to make it work right for you. They have no memory, are great in cold weather. Love it for small dry fly work as it gives you quick hook sets. I do dress these lines. I fish it a lot with size #16 to 20 dries and under the film ermergers. I find that I get better drag free floats with my Sylks due to the line being so supple.

 

The winning thing about the line is a very gentle presentation for dry fly work. It can lay down over a fish without much spooking, if done right. Because of the thin diameter a few of the bamboo guys I fish with have nipped a couple of feet from the front end for a shorter end taper, depends on your need. It's also important not to use a loop to loop connection on the end of this line to avoid sinking the tip.

 

Rio Gold is also a really great line in this same category, as it Cortland Peach. Both of these are more forgiving lines to work with than sylk and preferred by some.

[Guest rickleblanc]

I agree with most, if not all of the above, but would like to add that I've been using this line on a fast action graphite rod (6wt) with some impressive results. No other line can achieve the same kind of line speed (sharkskin doesn't come close), and it shoots like a champ. Takes a little adjusting for delicate presentations, but it just might be my favorite all around line.

 

Rick

[Taco]

Actually isn't a bad line in the wind either because of the small diameter, cutting the front end back a couple of feet may even made it better

[SilverDoctor]

I agree with most, if not all of the above, but would like to add that I've been using this line on a fast action graphite rod (6wt) with some impressive results. No other line can achieve the same kind of line speed (sharkskin doesn't come close), and it shoots like a champ. Takes a little adjusting for delicate presentations, but it just might be my favorite all around line.

 

Rick

Funny thing I never tried it on a fast graphite rod. must give it a go. thanks.

[Bowcane]

O/K, sounds like a possible sale to me. I did try another guys and he had the braided loop to loop with the shrink tube nonsense, something I'd never use, nail knots and Pliobond. Perhaps this is why I thought the line was a bunch of crap. I did read some reviews about guys using it on more softer medium action graphite such as Sage LL's and SP's with just stellar results. I'll assume that you can pick up a longer line off the water easier as well with the Sylk due to the smaller diameter? Speaking of Pliobond, I've not seen it out here, has anyone?

[SilverDoctor]

O/K, sounds like a possible sale to me. I did try another guys and he had the braided loop to loop with the shrink tube nonsense, something I'd never use, nail knots and Pliobond. Perhaps this is why I thought the line was a bunch of crap. I did read some reviews about guys using it on more softer medium action graphite such as Sage LL's and SP's with just stellar results. I'll assume that you can pick up a longer line off the water easier as well with the Sylk due to the smaller diameter? Speaking of Pliobond, I've not seen it out here, has anyone?

 

I bought my last tube of Pliobond at PMS hobby, don't know if they still stock it. Give me a shout if you want to try out the Sylk line on the water some time.

[dutchie]

use it on lots of my bamboo rods , it should last a couple years , the tips do on some sink , i just coat them with red tin muclin ,

 

they don't hold a candle to be anything near as good as a real silk line , try to find a good used silk line , it will last you forever if you take care of it , and i have yet to see any line that lifts off the water as easy and nice as a good dressed 100% pure silk line , nothing comes close to it , you have to take care of it , a little work after the day of fishing , let it dry ovenight and then a recoat of the red tin muclin and your ready to go again

[SilverDoctor]

You're dead on there Duchie, Real silk is great and can last a lifetime.

[dutchie]

You're dead on there Duchie, Real silk is great and can last a lifetime.

 

silver dr

we still never made it out yet , i just picked up a nice dana gray 8''ft quad in 5 wt , '' carlson four '', you want to get togeather and try it out , one of the best casting bamboo rods i have ever had my hands on , also going to put a gathering on this summer as alot of the bamboo guys coming in for fishing and a good chance to meet some of our members and try out a bunch of different cane rods

 

[SilverDoctor]

silver dr

we still never made it out yet , i just picked up a nice dana gray 8''ft quad in 5 wt , '' carlson four '', you want to get togeather and try it out , one of the best casting bamboo rods i have ever had my hands on , also going to put a gathering on this summer as alot of the bamboo guys coming in for fishing and a good chance to meet some of our members and try out a bunch of different cane rods

 

Yes, we must get together on the water. Also want to to drop by and droll over your hardy collection. That Dana Gray quad must me a winner. Must give it a shake. A gathering sounds like fun. Sort of a "Grass in".

[dutchie]

Yes, we must get together on the water. Also want to to drop by and droll over your hardy collection. That Dana Gray quad must me a winner. Must give it a shake. A gathering sounds like fun. Sort of a "Grass in".

yes give me a call and we will get togeather for coffee , i have gotten a few nice new quads for the guys to try out this year , i have really found them to be strong and a joy to cast , i think they are even better then penta's , had a marcello rod with the bamboo ferrules come in and it went back , i'll tell ya about when we get togeather ,

 

make sure you bring me some of them flies of yours to look at in person , i'm sure they are alot better then the pictures of them that i have seen , i got a few hardy gut eyed flies to show you also

tight lines to ya

[Conor]

I didn't like the Sylk, really. The low diameter and suppleness is great (compared to pvc lines), but the sinking and the stickiness were a pain. I never tried dressing it; maybe that would solve both problems. Might be a good back up to my silk lines if it does.

 

I have really just started using silk lines, but their performance is awesome. They float better than any pvc line I have used (especially Sylk), have no memory, no stretch, cut the air like nothing, and sound cool to boot.

 

I'd say if you are going to go synthetic, go with Peach or HiFloat, etc., etc.

 

Terenzio has an artificial braid that is intriguing, if the up-keep of silk is too much for you

http://www.terenziosilklines.com/index.php...=78&lang=en

 

If the price of silk is the issue, check out some articles on this site about used and refinished silk. If you look in the right places, you can get them quite cheap. http://www.overmywaders.com/index.php?cleaningsilk

 

 

 

 

 

[SilverDoctor]

I'm no expert but I agree that Syk is not the quality of real silk line, but it's high point is no maintenance, it needs dressing with a bit of mucillin though. You do have to cut and tune it to suit your casting style like most lines. I have a couple of silk lines that I fish occasionally. Grew up fishing silk when I was a lad, the routine was to fish the morning then unreel the line on the bushes to dry for the afternoon hatch. You could also flip it end for end and fish again but silk does start to sink after a while, and needs another application of Red Mucillin after it is dry to bring it back to it's former glory. I don't always want to deal with the maintenance of a Silk line every trip thus I like Sylk. Mind you I have a line that was bought in the 20's by my Dad that is still great to fish. No modern line could boast that or even fish like it.

 

By far the two best silk lines I've tried, where the a Phoenix Silk Line and JB Thebault's lines, both suburb. Both American built and extremely nice. All new silk lines of course require some breaking in to remove the initial stiffness before fishing them. They are not cheap but properly cared for last a lifetime. I have a Chinese silk line on order and will report on that one once it arrives and I put it through it's paces over a couple of months. Not everyone wants to deal with the maintenance and care that go with these lines, they can mildew and be destroyed by moisture if not properly cared for, but the performance is certainly second to none.

[dutchie]

doc

 

when you break in a new line , do you mean you just take it fishing ,OR do you mean run it over a dowel

 

i always run mine through my hands about 10 times with the old style grease first , i'll even set in in a clear plastic bag in front of a window and let the sun soak it into the line good befor i fish it , i just got a new little 4 wt from terenzio in the mail yesterday ,putting it on a hardy 1906 2 3/4 perfect to match a bill taylor 7 '6 quad i have , it's going to be my dry fly rod for down south this year

 

the line is nice and a little stiff as new , but very smooth coated, as good as any i have seen , what is nice is it came with 2 taper silk leaders , i'm going to work on it all day on sunday as i'm not on the water , you should come by for coffee , another one of our bamboo guys '' eastslope TH'' in town and he has some mike brooks rods with him ,

[SilverDoctor]

I like to run a new line over something like a towel rack. I have a big eye bolt in the garage that works great just to break up the new finish so the Red Muslin can get to it better and it gets it a bit softer for casting. Quick way to break it in. Casting will also do it but it takes linger. Been backed up with family matters lately (time for a home for the wife's Dad). Will give you a shout when I'm out of the woods.

[Conor]

A quick update on my Sylk opinion:

 

I tried dressing the line with musilin, as recommended by SilverDoctor. It solved both of my main issues with the line (stickyness and sinking). It will now be my main backup for my silks. Thanks for the tip; I get to use the other side of that DT now!

 

SilverDoctor- did you have a chance to try out those Chinese silks yet? I ordered a few from Zhu's (Ebay) and I guess I got what I paid for. Rough, stiff and inconsistent/mislabeled tapers. I haven't really gotten around to trying to work them in, but I am thinking I might just strip them down and refinish.

[SilverDoctor]

A quick update on my Sylk opinion:

 

I tried dressing the line with musilin, as recommended by SilverDoctor. It solved both of my main issues with the line (stickyness and sinking). It will now be my main backup for my silks. Thanks for the tip; I get to use the other side of that DT now!

 

SilverDoctor- did you have a chance to try out those Chinese silks yet? I ordered a few from Zhu's (Ebay) and I guess I got what I paid for. Rough, stiff and inconsistent/mislabeled tapers. I haven't really gotten around to trying to work them in, but I am thinking I might just strip them down and refinish.

 

Got a Zhu 6 wt. I've broken it up by running it over a steel rod. Seems nice and supple now. Am applying muslin and hope to try it out this weekend on my red wing. Most lines do need time to be broken in. Not as consistent in quality as the Phoenix Silk Line I owned. Phoenix Silk Line By the way a couple of guy's I talked to haven't been able to strip the line successfully as yet with the standard methods. But that don't matter if it casts reasonably. I'll let you know how it casts.

[dutchie]

Got a Zhu 6 wt. I've broken it up by running it over a steel rod. Seems nice and supple now. Am applying muslin and hope to try it out this weekend on my red wing. Most lines do need time to be broken in. Not as consistent in quality as the Phoenix Silk Line I owned. Phoenix Silk Line By the way a couple of guy's I talked to haven't been able to strip the line successfully as yet with the standard methods. But that don't matter if it casts reasonably. I'll let you know how it casts.

 

conor

that muclin is the best , i use it all the time , and just try it on a big fly , they stay afloat and hold a droper great for long time , best stuff i have ever used yet and been useing it for years ,

 

zhu lines , i have a friend who has 4 of them and he thinks they pretty good lines for what you pay , i think they just varnished them to much which makes em way to stiff

now he stripped a couple down and has had great luck with them becoming very soft , i tried his rod and line and it lays soft on the water and casted good , this is a line he stripped the heavy coat of varnish off the line , stripping that varnish or coating off a silk line is very easy , takes only a few mins if you soak it in the correct stuff

 

i have 4 phoenix silk lines and i'm a big fan of then except the cost of them , i also have some older hardy silk lines and king fisher silk lines , i find the older lines are better , casting , shooting through the guides and lay so soft on the water , tighter wraps in the silk , some of the silk lines i'm useing are 75 years old and still as good as the day they made them , a little TLC with silk line and they should last you a life time ,

[SilverDoctor]

conor

stripping that varnish or coating off a silk line is very easy , takes only a few mins if you soak it in the correct stuff

 

What did he use to strip it with? My normal way is to use warm water with baking soda on hte bulk of silk lines. I've to talked to guys that say it doesn't work on Zhu lines. What is the "correct stuff".

[dutchie]

What did he use to strip it with? My normal way is to use warm water with baking soda on hte bulk of silk lines. I've to talked to guys that say it doesn't work on Zhu lines. What is the "correct stuff".

 

i like you use the same , a box half full of baking soda and warm water in the sink , 30 mins , and a good rag to run the line through , a few times and it's just a silk line then with no dressing or coating on it ,

 

he used a paint thinner or stripper to remove it , just layed the line in the remover and covered it , said it worked like a charm , wiped that all off and the varnish came with it , then washed the line good in hot soapy water , and last he did the baking soda job on it , line was just bare silk when i seen it

 

[SilverDoctor]

i like you use the same , a box half full of baking soda and warm water in the sink , 30 mins , and a good rag to run the line through , a few times and it's just a silk line then with no dressing or coating on it ,

 

he used a paint thinner or stripper to remove it , just layed the line in the remover and covered it , said it worked like a charm , wiped that all off and the varnish came with it , then washed the line good in hot soapy water , and last he did the baking soda job on it , line was just bare silk when i seen it

 

Thanks Duchie Good to know. I do like my own coating, I'll probability do it during the winter.

[Conor]

SilverDoctor- let me know how they cast for you. I don't really have a rod for mine, since the diameters were off a bit (maybe due to the heavy varnish), so I might just wait to refinish them some time soon.

 

What do you use to varnish them? I use a turp/linseed/spar mix, but it has a very slow drying time. Kind of a pain.