seanbritt Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Jets dont piss me off, people piss me off. There are certain jet drivers that have a reputation for thinking they own the river and there have been words with them. Having been out with a couple of experienced & courteous jet owners, like anything, it comes down to the driver. I am sure there are some jet drivers that would think pontoons should be banned. I don't know that I would knowingly put myself in such a small craft in a river where I know there are power boats and limited sight lines at times. There have been times that I have been rowing and came across a pontoon anchored up in a bad place and had to hit the oars pretty hard to get out of the guys way. It's just a matter of looking out for each other. Andrew x2 It comes down to the individual driving the boat/pontoon, heck or even fishing for that matter. I've been on the side of the river fishing and think the proportion of impolite operators are likely equal among drift/jet/pontoons. Jets likely get a worse rap due to the attention that is drawn to them based on their motorized action. The one thing that could potentially be discussed is a size limit. I've seen some sea-worthy motorized crafts down really low that should be running in the ocean, not the Bow. Also, x2 on Tungsten teaching a course. I've only been out with him once but he was very polite on the river when we came upon other anglers, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Yep, the word ban, gotta love it. How many things are now banned and deemed illegal cause people were abusing the system and doing what they wanted, where they wanted. ATV's and OHV's are a prime example. It only takes a few to spoil it for the rest. How long before more jet bans are put in place. It's up to the user of anything, jet's included to educate those that don't use common sense - cause in the end, it hurts all users. Jet's don't bother me at all - some people do - but that's just me. I spend most of my time in the city and have the fire department come by quite a bit. They slow down and wave, still creates a heck of a wake at the shoreline but it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrinhurst Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 ...... I think they have just as much right on the river as anyone else as long as they are following the laws set in place. Exactly. Who the hell are we to decide who gets to do what and where? Just because you are in a drift boat or a pontoon, we should cry foul because a guy who has jet boat goes by? Sure, if the guy's an a$$hat, then vent about it, but it is a public place with public access and they have as much right to this beautiful river as everyone else. If you don't want a jet boat blowing past, then float the city section where motorized boats aren't allowed. Just watch out for those pesky firemen jetting up and down the river.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NamasteMushroom Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Yep, the word ban, gotta love it. I guess the word 'ban' is only good for things like... bait fishing. I have been on several jet boats and I love them; purely for the fact that you can go upstream at boat launches, and when the weather turns foul you're back to the car. I can understand how they are a problem on the river, and perhaps they should be banned. If they are detrimental to the fishery (and they are in many cases; there are a lot of people still running 2-stroke jets on the bow, and motor boats in general cause premature bank erosion). That said, if they bother you because you're looking for peace and quiet, clean air, and seclusion.....I suggest you fish elsewhere. The lower Bow is a busy river (except perhaps in late fall through early spring), and it is entirely artificial. As long as there is a million people living and sh%@ing in it; it's not going to change anytime soon (jet boats or not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJensen Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I'll throw this video out there. (edit: sorry, I removed the video because it was taking on a life of its own on Youtube) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutlover Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I dont get it what kind of tricks are you filming there!! You mean the fish dont give a piss about the Jet boats! Then why are there so many fishermen on the BOW who cant catch fish after a jet boat goes by? hmmm weird the fish on the Bow river must be different. Also the speed at which that boat went by was INSANE! I bet if he went really slow created a huge wake dragged the bottom it would have been much better. by the way NICE FISH!!!! Edit: All kidding aside I too have seen some real Losers on the Bow like the guy who in the fall jets up the run drops and drags his ancor down the river and pulls Browns off their Redds..... i want to punch that guy in the face...but I've seen some real sweet moves by drift boats floating down a side channels they have no bussiness floating because of their size. Point being and it's already been made several times here it comes down to the operator not the watercraft. A point that i did find interesting was looking at a limitation on the size of watercraft allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkk Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Mmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIDBITCH Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I know I am a cynical poster on here but when it comes to jet boats and drift boats alike I have to agree... It is the people operating the boat that tend to be the problem. Case in point legend of "The Red Zodiac" from last summer. Now I am not certain if it is powered by a jet or a conventonal propellor but it is still powered. Imagine if you will... I was happily stalking snouts on one of my favorite Bangling banks looking for snouts when I hear the drone of "The Red Zodiac" from below me. As "The Red Zodiac" passed the usual waves and muddy bank puts the fish down and I wait for the allotted "4min 20 sec" for the bank to clear. I look up river and floating down is... "The Red Zodiac" and not on the other side of the river in the seam that I am fishing. Oh it was a happy day... "The Red Zodiac" passes and I resume looking for snouts... Long story short..."The Red Zodiac" did this not once but twice more. The last time "The Red Zodiac" passed I had had enough and started walking back to the parking lot, As I was rounded a corner I looked up and downstream from the boat launch there was "The Red Zodiac"... It seemed to be in distress as its deckhands were working tirelessly to drag it against the current. I am a little ashamed to admit it now but I did it... I giggled my ass off and laughed out loud, one of those belly laughs that make your whole week. As I passed the efforts put forth by "The Red Zodiac" deckhands I gathered that they had mechanical difficulties and not been able to make the launch and had quite a ways to go. Somewhere deep within me I found a new spring in my step. Isn't Karma wonderful... If anyone would like to make this into a fishing video I am certain we could collaborate on this project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kphebert Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 WOW!That entire post is so wrong on so many levels. So in other words...screw everybody else??? i didnt say that at all.i said i give everyone as much room as i can going up the bow which is alot more than i can say for alot of drift boats that go by you ten feet away while your fishing a run on foot.jet boats dont have the city fishing option.we have to fish the lower bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brookie Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Ban motorized boats between Calgary and Carseland. Allow motorized boats below Carseland. Simple. Jet boats originated in remote river systems in New Zealand. The Bow is not a remote river from Calgary to Carseland. They are not necessary. Maybe convenient but not necessary. Spend a few bucks on a shuttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grinr Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 i didnt say that at all.i said i give everyone as much room as i can going up the bow which is alot more than i can say for alot of drift boats that go by you ten feet away while your fishing a run on foot.jet boats dont have the city fishing option.we have to fish the lower bow. The way I read it,it's too much of an inconvenience for you to slow down for all the other river users,and anybody that doesn't like your complete lack of boating etiquette should stay in the city?Maybe if the Bow is really getting that busy,it might not actually be a bad idea to consider increasing the motor-free zone? .....And fwiw,I AM NOT anti-motor,not at all....I've ran boats of every size and description all my life,just that yer attitude rubs me wrong....ie; "it's a pain in my ass to slow down for every boat on the river so get ta hell outta my way or fish in the city if you don't like it" ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 420FLYFISHIN Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Brookie - unless your going to give us all fake indian cards i dont think your plan will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan2 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Good so you should'nt mind a jet blasting by, after you use your legs and lungs to boot pack in to some remote place. And when I do walk there, I often find that those of that same mindset who are impressed by horsepower have parked their jetboat and got on their quad instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seby Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Cant see the need or understand why people enjoy ripping up and down a heavily fish river like the bow disrupting and ruining others quiet enjoyment of the river. Like already stated jet boats arent needed on easy to access places like the bow. With the increased number of people floating the river in the last few years it is impossible for jet boats to not have a negative impact on their experience no matter how they are used. I have never encountered a courteous jet boater, yet from the sounds of it jet boats no matter how they are used are disruptive and cause wakes. Do jet boaters even fish from these or do they just zip up and down the river all day trying to be annoying. I say Extend the ban!!! Troutfisher01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterbig Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Just a question, is there restrictions on what type of watercraft can be used??? Can folks on jet ski/wave runners zip up and down the river for fun or is it limited to only boats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnm Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The operator of the red zodiac is a pain in the ass, but the guy who operates the large 20 plus foot alumiweld and drives a Hummer is the worst culpert . I've watched him back into the middle of the river ,at MacKinnon Flats, to load his ship and then gets stuck and then decides to start ripping apart the river bed with his unstuckable tank on wheels. This guy needs to lose his operators license. Some guide or flyshop on this forum has a picture of this clown destroying the river bed. That picture needs to make a few rounds , we can get rid of some of the disrespect out there. The Bow river is home to some excellent guides/and other boat owners, jets included that have a lot of respect for the river, and anglers that enjoy its waters, but then there are a few that dont know what respect is. Banning Guides, Jet boats, Drift boats ,Jet Skis, WILL NEVER HAPPEN its classified as a highway. But reporting the disrespectful users a few times, will hopefully wake them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIDBITCH Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Very good point MNM, I did not want to drag the jet boat story out but I have met "the alumiweld" as well. (another video option) That is another story... brought with frustration and peril. *Disclaimer* Opinion only... The Bow River has too dense a angler too area population for deep hull high horsepower Riverboats. I have fished out of and would have a powered drift boat. If i wasn't born handsome and was born rich... The Bow River has become a jet boat river, as it once became a drift boat river. I am not a lifelong resident of the Bow but I have seen a significant increase in Bangler and boat traffic in the last 5 years. As annoying as it is to every facet (bangler, drifter and powered drifter) of the sport of fly angling on the Bow that we love... It is the truth!!! We either adapt... as we do or we post digrunteled posts forever on forums that solve nothing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CopperJonny Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I grew up operating and being a passenger on boats all of my life .... and one of the fundamental rules of thumb that was taught to me before I ever took the controls . Is the fact of ...when in company of other water users .... And this is on a larger scale body of water , let alone the Bow ...or even Dave's stream in his video . Is the practice of exercising what is universally known among the boating world as a " Courtesy Wake " . Plain and simple , no bones about it those who do not practice it are either ignorant , rude ...or both ! Nothing more , nothing less !! IMO on a valuable and resourceful river like the Bow... a "Blue Ribbon Fishery " one of very few river's on this rock left wether man made fishery or not .. is pretty near much a miracle fwiw . I don't believe powered boats should be on it until after it may in the least widen or deepen ... Why the heck would someone who invests into a boat and motor would want to take the chance of ruining a prop .....inexpensive pins , or merely scratch the heck out of there toy is beyond me . I know I don't . Lakes are perfect for that , so much more room , great fishing opportunities , watersports like skiing , tubing etc can be done so much more efficiently ....the are many lakes around that are so much more fun and efficient .....To each their own in that I respect...Just doesnt make any " cents". Regardless .. the destroying of habitat is just unacceptable behavior , thats like riding a quad through playground size patches of dirt . Or buying a big truck to drive on a sidewalk only or in a parking lot.... if one has too do it , as it is there right ....please just simply practice respect and use the " courtesy wake " ! Its obvious there are few pathways along the river sufficient enough to even drive the boat through ....just so happens ... the fish tend to congregate the same areas for a lot of the year . How would someone like it if another animal uses there front yard , backyard " in town" as a major corridor for travel . It would be neat , yet I'm am pretty sure the phone would be picked up and dealt with rather promptly " for childrens sake" by F&W . Either with fences , traps or firearms ! It just wouldnt be tolerated ...come on . There is a place for everything ! Habitat is obviously crucial to the sucess in spawning and rearing of young , and it is very limited , even if they move to smaller streams to do so , they live the majority of there lives in the mainstream ... That river is so tiny compared to most waterways ...... it is just not sensible , not to me anyway...thats my two cents . I merely wanted to point out the " Courtesy wake" . ( and I do get the reality that the majority of the itballs who rip up and down out of pleasure and , despite the disgust of other river user's , and safety of the redds propably wont see this thread , but geeze )....end of transmission . Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffer Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The guy in the red zodiac is a pain in the ass. He has low holed us several times and we have had to pull him out at Mac already this year. If you dont know he runs a spin fishing blog named after a certain river we all like to fish. I have also heard about the guy in the Hummer and his antics chewing up the river bed at Mac. With that said, there are particular members here who have a reputation of being less than courteous with their jets. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJensen Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I don't expect everyone to agree with my perspectives, more just typing this for discussion. Nor are these absolutes, carte blanche points. I posted the video to show that a stream with 150 trout/km can still produce within 5 minutes of a jet boat. The trout aren’t as impacted as you’d think when something happens repetitively. Conditioning does that, frankly. Honestly, fish adapt to their environment and have been doing so for years on the Bow (note: cumulative intrusions between anglers, jet boats, canoes, floaters, predators, etc). They will always do so. And if a stream with 150 trout / km can produce under 5 minutes after a jet goes flying past, I’m fairly certain the Bow can produce a fish or two as well – with its 2400 trout/km. You might not get all of them sipping caddis on top, however. The key thing about that stream in my video – essentially a giant spring creek – is that the jets have been there forever and if you want peace – you choose not to fish it. When we fish it, we simply accept that is the way it is. Why get all uptight and ruin your experience? When you know certain things are going to happen – you have a choice: go and decide to have a good time or stay home/go elsewhere. Why on earth would you submit yourself to a situation where you know the outcome already and you know you are going to fight it in your head? Why would anyone do that to themselves? I also posted the video to show that it isn’t just a local issue. If you care enough about your local river, do some research and find out what other areas are doing to make it a workable situation. And I’m not talking about just here in Canada – be a leader and find what others in other countries have done to make it workable without necessarily being combative. The issue is not going to go away, it is not going to get better. I am very surprised that nobody from this forum has done any co-ordinated, collaborative video recording of the jets. Show that there is an issue. Streamwatch made good progress with a lot of data collected to show impact and user reach, why does this forum not get together to do something and show leadership – to make sure its feature river and its users are playing nice? This is FlyFishCalgary, right? Obviously there are yahoos on the water – document it, report it. Anyone that has taken the boater exam knows the rules of the river but if nobody is documenting the infractions and showing proof to authorities, you won’t get anywhere. You need to show sustained infractions and the safety hazard that is occurring. Document, report, follow up. Repeat. You may find it is actually a group of 4 – 6 jets that everyone is actually complaining about. Set up a Sub-Forum for the FFC site and have a “Spottings” thread so you can document it. I suspect it would be the same core of jetters everyone is complaining about. Guess what? The boats have call letters and descriptions – now you have data to take to authorities. And by ‘not combative’ – invite these guys to the FFC sub forum about jets so they can see how others perceive them but also so you can get to know them and tie into their circle of friends / co-jetters. Heck, create a Bow R Rec Society that has a framework of how all users can interact. There is an issue with too many people on the Bow, and every user can admit that. Even when it comes to fishing there is an issue pre-runoff as there simply isn’t enough water to accommodate wade and boat anglers on those gorgeous early season days - as the wade anglers simply can go to the guts of the river and then they expect all boats to accommodate them. The trouble is that in many runs on the river, pre-runoff, there simply isn’t room for a boat to float between the bobbers being tossed to the guts of the river from either side. But, the issue really is this: Fishermen won’t ever be happy because of the inherent “I want it my way” attitude predominates. Whatever happened to honoring the other person by simply being courteous? This might mean that wade anglers don't wade to their nipples just to conquer the river, and drift boaters just don't drift the city to Policeman's early in the year. About the only time there perhaps might not be an issue of too little water to accommodate all users is the peak of runoff to typical early summer flows, but that accounts for 2-3 months of the year. There is not a lot of room for 400 vessels to co-exits over 60km of water that happens many summer days. As the availability of play zones between users is limited, there may be need for seasonal restrictions. Honestly, it is extremely difficult for a motorized craft not to impact other users during lower flow periods on the Bow. But it will be 5 years min from today that you change the restrictions - based on starting today. The system simply takes that kind of time (at least) and if you don’t stop giving it lip service and start to take action / document things – you might find that the jet boat association has quite a few Bow R users in Calgary 5 years from now that have a stronger lobby than you. And then it’s really over. The Bow is starting to come to a cross roads. It’s being used by a society that simply wants to use it, by a population that has as much $ as any in the world, and those people have high expectations that things will stay the same as it was ‘back in the day’ – and is based on our Canadian outdoors heritage (and that covers a lot of cross sections of a changing society and its interests) . That’s a really, really tough juggling act. And the worst part about it is - if/when regulation comes to the Bow, the users will simply shift to another water and the entire process will start over again - on that water. Sadly, I'm not so sure that the Bow is the worst case situation in Alberta for river recreational conflicts (try the RDR system), but it is likely the one location to get public support for changing it. Someone in Calgary is going to have to show some leadership on the recreational use issue, and not based upon their interest. It will have to be based on the greater common good beyond fishing. Resource management isn't based upon the birds, bees, and trees. It's based on managing us and our inherent inability to agree on how we should use it or how much of it we should use. The birds, bees, and trees would do very well without us.It's tough for most of us to admit that our Canadian outdoor heritage is simply based on using a resource to fulfil our own selfishness, simply because that's how it has always been. But it's when we step outside of that perspective, that's when we can affect change. PS - the hummer in question? This shot was from 2006. Had there been a group organized to deal with this kind of conflict this user wouldn't still be getting his Hummer stuck out in the middle of the river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 420FLYFISHIN Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 holy salmon boat! i have never seen this ass...yet. But i would love to run a larger 3 person jet ski like an old Yamaha up and down, small wake and not much gas to drag it around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brookie Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Brookie - unless your going to give us all fake indian cards i dont think your plan will work. OK. No motorized boats below Carseland either. Look at the Elk River in BC. It has banned motorized boats to the benefit of fly fisherman and the general public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishslayer74 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 OK. No motorized boats below Carseland either. Look at the Elk River in BC. It has banned motorized boats to the benefit of fly fisherman and the general public. After reading all the post's generated from my little rant from last weekend it really does come down to respect and courtesy to others on the river. However Brookie makes a great point with the Elk River and how they have band motorized boats. And there was another comment made on the first page of this topic by Ulmo and below is what he had to say. And all it take's is one of these jack asses not slowing down and ripping it up on the river and finally running into someone. Maybe that's what it'll come down to with putting a ban on them.... "motorized boats should be banned, down to carseland weir - why? when i think of The Blue Ribbon Bow as a world renowned flyfishing destination - im sorry, motorized boats dont come to mind. i could only guess at the horror a guide must feel, taking 500$ plus from a couple guys who flew to calgary from afar, only to have a beautiful day interupted by a screaming boat..." "motorized boats are for lakes, not rivers. just one guys opinion." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Yeah I don't think so!! That would be elitest! LoL Maybe to benefit all "anglers" but not "just" fly anglers!! The Elk is NOT fly fish only! to the benefit of fly fisherman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishslayer74 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Yeah I don't think so!! That would be elitest! LoL Maybe to benefit all "anglers" but not "just" fly anglers!! The Elk is NOT fly fish only! I grew up spin casting so that wasn't the point of what I was trying to get across. In his quote he also mentioned General Public. The point is really from what I saw that day and it's not even summer yet just blew my mind with the traffic and abuse of these motorized boats. And yeah if this keeps up it may have that impact of people not wanting to come and fish this premier trout fishery. Thus having an impact on guiding, fly shops etc. and great places to go fishing without feeling like your going to be swamped or run over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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